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Old March 3rd, 2006, 12:45 PM   #101
jrb
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This acre of land(ditch) in front of Victoria station has an awful lot of mature trees.

There could be problems?
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Old March 3rd, 2006, 12:54 PM   #102
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Aerial view of Victoria station, car park, acre of land.

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Old April 25th, 2006, 05:02 AM   #103
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Development of Victoria Station

Hi Folks,

I was very pleased to have come accross this forum. Seeing Victoria station refurbished etc is a topic very close to my heart.

I have been reading through your forum with interest and understand that from the last two postings that Victoria station WILL be redeveloped now.

Anyone know when this is likely to begin?

With regards future potential for Victoria I can see an awful lot. With the metro now linking Piccadilly and Victoria I see no reason why you have to "put all the eggs in one basket" and Piccadilly is very overcrowded at present.

Services that could run through Victoria are as follows:

Liverpool - Newcastle
Blackpool - Scarborough
Hull-Holyhead

In addition I see no reason why complete new services couldnt be developed which could include:

Glasgow-Hull
North Wales-Yorkshire
Manchester-Llandudno

It will certainly be good to see Victoria developed again.


Best wishes,



Chris.
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Old April 25th, 2006, 05:17 AM   #104
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I can remember when Vic was one busy bustling station. They'll certainly have their work cut out to renovate it, it'll need a completely new roof for starters. It would be nice if they could restore it back to it's 'Victorian' styled glory but I guess that would be very costly.
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Old April 25th, 2006, 08:28 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcg
look at what you could have won........

Why wasnt this built? And Manchester wants the Olympics?
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Old April 25th, 2006, 10:39 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting
I can remember when Vic was one busy bustling station. They'll certainly have their work cut out to renovate it, it'll need a completely new roof for starters. It would be nice if they could restore it back to it's 'Victorian' styled glory but I guess that would be very costly.

When they did that Restoration programme, rather than Victoria baths, they should have put Victoria Station in and with a project to restore the roof.

Does anyone know if there is a "Friends of Victoria Station" type society out there which will be campaigning for something like this?
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Old April 25th, 2006, 01:02 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim Flyer
When they did that Restoration programme, rather than Victoria baths, they should have put Victoria Station in and with a project to restore the roof.

Does anyone know if there is a "Friends of Victoria Station" type society out there which will be campaigning for something like this?
there wouldnt be much point restoring the roof just for the sake of it. the problem with victoria is that its not that busy most of the time and especialy if phase 3 gets built it might be less busy. i dare to say that i think it needs rationalising and reconfiguring and the bits that are not needed can be sold off and that could pay to modernise the remaining areas
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Old April 25th, 2006, 01:38 PM   #108
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The airspace over Victoria is probably more valuable than the roof. Think Liverpool Street, Charing Cross, Cannon Street all with offices over the tracks.
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Old April 25th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golddigga18
there wouldnt be much point restoring the roof just for the sake of it. the problem with victoria is that its not that busy most of the time and especialy if phase 3 gets built it might be less busy. i dare to say that i think it needs rationalising and reconfiguring and the bits that are not needed can be sold off and that could pay to modernise the remaining areas

My problem with that though golddigga is that is the logic Birmingham has used and they have some of the countries uglist / darkest train stations in New Street and Snow Hill.

Who knows what the future will bring and that there might be a use for a Victoria Station to take pressure of Piccadily. If we build over it or around it the station might not have any capacity to grow in the future.

The reason I say protect the roof is that it's what I call hat and shoes logic. If the Roof and the foundations are ok, usually the rest of the building will survive.

My view is just to buy time and see what the future will bring.
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Old April 25th, 2006, 02:34 PM   #110
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So is there DEFINATELY a plan to develop Victoria station? Im confused.


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Old April 27th, 2006, 09:48 PM   #111
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Interesting News

Received the following today off Network Rail:

Dear Sir,

I have been asked to respond to your e-mail concerning Manchester Victoria Station and hope the following helps.

As you rightly suggest, attention is required at Victoria and separately colleagues within Network Rail are actively progressing proposals for the roofs refurbishment. In parallel with this however I am separately investigating potential for further commercial development at Manchester Victoria on land both to the east and south of the station. These sites have always been considered suitable for development and the principle is supported by Manchester City Council. As a result I have just commenced a notification under OJEU (The Official Journal of the European Union) with a purpose to seek a commercial development partner with whom we can work and establish what opportunities exist. This will hopefully consider lands both within and outside the immediate station area and the roof is likely to become an integral part of that process and overall consideration.

The OJEU procedure that Network Rail is required to follow imposes its own timescale therefore it is unlikely that a partner will be selected until late summer/early autumn. However at that point Network Rail will hopefully have some informal visions for the station and immediate area which we will then hopefully be looking to progress through a master planning process.

As I hope you can see therefore, Network Rail is already actively looking to improve the station and I hope this information is off assistance to you.


Yours sincerely

J D Tym


Positive news!


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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:39 AM   #112
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Sounds like good news to me.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 03:06 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_26
With regards future potential for Victoria I can see an awful lot. With the metro now linking Piccadilly and Victoria I see no reason why you have to "put all the eggs in one basket" and Piccadilly is very overcrowded at present.

Services that could run through Victoria are as follows:

Liverpool - Newcastle
Blackpool - Scarborough
Hull-Holyhead

In addition I see no reason why complete new services couldnt be developed which could include:

Glasgow-Hull
North Wales-Yorkshire
Manchester-Llandudno
Hello Chris, thanks for posting the reply from Network Rail. I know an engineer who works for them at Piccadilly. I'll ask her sometime what they mean by 'informal visions' of the redevelopment. It sounds to me like nobody really knows at the moment what kind of development will take place......it could potentially be very low spec!

Originally, most North Wales/Liverpool - Manchester - Hull/Newcastle trains used Victoria, and it was a fume-filled dump of a place. Heaving in the 1960s, still busy by the late 1970s, but it was rank.

The reason why trains were re-routed through Piccadilly was simply becuse there was no connectivity between the north and south of the conurbation. This was at the same time that Stalybridge-Stockport trains were scrapped, which were used by people connecting from Yorkshire to the Midlands and all points south.

In the long term, the best way to ease the strain on Piccadilly would be to separate local electric services from the rest of the network......it's possible but extremely expensive (i.e. not in my lifetime)
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Old April 28th, 2006, 03:18 PM   #114
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Still think it would have been better to move Piccadilly station further out towards Ardwick rather like Milano Centrale was moved out of downtown Milan in the 1920's (look at a map of Milan, the straight road leading to the station from the centre was once a viaduct)

Then the trains that use platform 14 could run through the new station and chose their own platform. The line around Phillips park could also be utilized to feed the station and Victoria could be reduced to something like Oxford Road.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 03:31 PM   #115
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We don't want it being reduced to "something like Oxford Rd" though do we? We want it redeveloped and possibly expanded,not down sized. As Manchester gets busier and busier each year we will need another BIG station will we not? Piccadilly is at bursting point almost.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 04:14 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolybling
We don't want it being reduced to "something like Oxford Rd" though do we? We want it redeveloped and possibly expanded,not down sized. As Manchester gets busier and busier each year we will need another BIG station will we not? Piccadilly is at bursting point almost.
I don't think Piccadilly is at bursting point, there is a bottleneck on platforms 13/14 whilst the stub end station is under utilized. As has been mentioned earlier, some of Victoria's traffic has been moved to Piccadilly. A city the size of Manchester doesn't need two big termini, in fact more than one of these can inconvenience passengers. Milan only has Centrale, Barcelona only has Sants, Rome only has Termini.

A 14 platform station that can be used by all trains with a big concourse above the platforms and connected to the centre by metrolink would be a superb addition to the city. Victoria's days as a mainline station are gone.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 04:48 PM   #117
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I don't agree, but hey, that's ok we can agree to disagree.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 05:38 PM   #118
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No let's have a big ******* row.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 07:18 PM   #119
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Victoria's probably going to stay the way it is, and you can still call it a mainline station. It's a bit like Charing Cross, with regional/local trains only.

The answer to congested Piccadilly is to re-open the adjacent Mayfield station IMO, and increase capacity on approaches to both. This has been identified by GMPTE as a necessary future development.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 07:23 PM   #120
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I think 'the market' will sort this one out.
If Piccadilly reaches breaking point Victoria will take the strain simply because its there.
As it is i think the way it is now is about right - all be it that Victoria could do with some Piccadilly style investment.
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