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Old January 12th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #2041
sotonsi
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Whenever Spain mentions Gibraltar, I think Morocco's diplomats loudly agree with their arguments going "get out of Ceuta and Melilla then, if you believe that".

Spain's arguments for keeping those bits of land the other side of the straights of Gibraltar are basically the same as the UK's arguments for keeping Gibraltar, without the extra bonus of a Treaty handing the land over to them.

So basically all Spanish claims to Gibraltar, while they have Ceuta, Melilla, etc is hypocritical to say the least.

Back to roads, heh?

I think Hong Kong was the only British overseas territory/colony/whatever that had a motorway system while under British rule.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 09:48 PM   #2042
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Yes, but Hong Kong has green directional signs on motorways and blue directional signs off motorways, I don't know why this is though. I'll try to find out.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 03:53 AM   #2043
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It'll be down to regional influence. Mainland China has those colours, as does Japan and must of the rest of East Asia.

They also put a line through pictograms on prohibiiton signs, unlike in the UK, which I prefer actually.

As for Gibraltar, no idea what reality CNGL is living in. Still, it's not actually a part of the UK either, although it is under UK sovereignty.

Last edited by Gareth; January 23rd, 2011 at 09:16 PM.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 09:56 PM   #2044
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I'll say though, that I find that the fact that they aren't part of the UK (same as with other territories) is pretty undemocratic, after all, London still governs their foreign policy. In my ideal world, the country would be federal with several self-governing subdivisions and a federal government, and this would include the overseas territories and crown dependencies. Sure, you could say that they'd have to pay more tax, but they'd also receive more benefits.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 11:25 PM   #2045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I'll say though, that I find that the fact that they aren't part of the UK (same as with other territories) is pretty undemocratic, after all, London still governs their foreign policy. In my ideal world, the country would be federal with several self-governing subdivisions and a federal government, and this would include the overseas territories and crown dependencies. Sure, you could say that they'd have to pay more tax, but they'd also receive more benefits.
Gibraltar is British. N Ireland is British. Falklands is British. Which part of do you not understand?

I always thought that Portugal was our oldest ally and therefore demanded our respect. You're doing everything to prove that wrong.

This may come as some sort alien concept to you, but people in our dependencies and commonwealth want to remain part there of. Rule Britannia!
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Old January 15th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #2046
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You misunderstood me completely, and I am British. Basically what I said is that they should have the right to vote for the house of commons. Where did I write that they shouldn't be British and/or don't have the right be so? Where did I talk about Northern Ireland in that post, that is a completely different matter? What does Portugal got to do with this, and to you does being an ally mean that Portugal should be the UK's bit**?

I am offended!

Edit: I am not sayign that they don't also have the right for independence if they wish.

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; January 15th, 2011 at 03:25 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #2047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Map Guy View Post
Let's take a closer look at your proposals Daniel, with my comments in italics:
(snipped)
In agreement with most of your points, except that I'd definely upgrade the Cambridge-Huntingdon section of the A14 to D4M motorway. Remember it isn't just carrying A14 east-west traffic, but it also carries traffic arriving by the A1 from the north and dog-legging via the M11 to eastern London and the Channel Ports.

As for extending the M65 eastwards, the Yorkshire Dales National Park doesn't extend far enough south to conflict with any plausible M65 extension. However, I expect an extended M65 would pass quite some way to the north of Bradford, passing just south of Harrogate and Knaresborough to meet the A1 somewhere near Wetherby.

Other suggestions I'd have for road upgrades are:
  • Upgrade the A1 to dual carriageway along the entire route from Newcastle to Edinburgh -- the single carriageway sections have a terrible safety record.
  • A556(M) motorway upgrade between the M6 and M56.
  • Upgrade the A51 to dual carriageway between the A38 at Lichfield and the A34 at Stone, bypassing built-up areas and providing grade-separated junctions with other classified roads. This would divert away some local traffic from the M6 north of Birmingham, leaving it clearer for long-distance traffic.
  • Upgrade the entire A303 to dual carriageway, to reduce traffic going via the M4 and M5. A full motorway upgrade may possibly be a good idea here because of the blue line brigade, even though it probably isn't necessary capacity-wise.

It seems though that the biggest problem regarding traffic congestion in Britain though is on the western side of the M25. The reason why is obvious -- Heathrow Airport is there, and the M40, M4 and M3 all meet the M25 in this region. Don't really know what the best thing to do about it would be...
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Old January 15th, 2011, 10:50 PM   #2048
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Don't worry, I reacted more badly


As for the M3/M4/M25 problem, the only solution I can think of is creating a motorway on the rough route of the N and S circular routes, as lot of people go onto the M25 to get from one area of London to another.

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; January 15th, 2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 12:56 AM   #2049
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Some good suggestions there GCarty, the A303 one is an interesting one, we can all agree that something needs to be done, they were going to do the Stonehenge tunnels a while back but canned it, so the will is there to do something. A motorway upgrade would indeed be the best, but I doubt it would get very far. Despite being little more than a D2 upgrade in most senses, it's the stigma attached to motorway building, particularly in that part of the world - M3 Twyford Down and the A34 Newbury Bypass.

About the M25 problem, I posted an image a couple of pages back, but here it is again.

image hosted on flickr

Greater London Improvements by The Map Guy, on Flickr

A parallel route along the M25's southern side taking long distance traffic away from the existing motorway, it would have junctions with the M26 and M25 at either end, then additional junctions at M25/A21, M23 and A3, before branching off to the M3 and following the line of the planned M31 to Reading, before an additional extension would link to the A34 which would itself be upgraded from there, round Oxford to the M40. Essentially red lines would be new build projects, yellow lines would be upgrades to existing routes, and light blue would be more speculative routes that could be added at a later date for further improvement to capacity, etc.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 02:05 AM   #2050
sotonsi
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Mine isn't very detailed:


However, I can explain it.

In lime green is A34 corridor improvements - new build to remove long distance traffic from the Oxford area (and widening between the southern end of that and the M4. Plus M3 J9 upgrades) - the route I've taken tries to minimise route length. Plus it also links to the Varsity Corridor route.

In purple is the Varsity Corridor route - partially new build, partially upgraded dual carriageway. Fully grade-separated, parts are D3 (around Aylesbury, Aylesbury - Thame). Links in with the A41 to form a bypass for the NW M25 - access from the M40 north and Oxford to the Watford area is quicker this way. Completed the Bedford bypass, and added some distributor and link roads around Aylesbury.

In blue is motorway upgrades - making the M40-M4 section of M25 wider (preferably C-D lanes), upgrading various junctions on the M25, widening part of the M11, upgrading the 2-lane bit of the M3 (with changes to junction 7 and 8 to allow this), making M20 j3-5 wider (C-D lanes preferably), widening the M26 and the M25 North Downs bit and the M1 between J10 and 11a.

In orange are improvements to the A12 corridor - upgrading the A12/A130 junction to make the A130-A13 route more viable, relieving the A12 west of there and finishing off the A120 D/C to give another decent alternative route via the M11.

In dark green are new build DCs to bypass the Heathrow section of the M25.

In pink are at-grade improvements to the A505 corridor - dualling the bit west of the A5, Dunstable, Luton and Hitchin bypasses.

In yellow are the Chelmsford NE bypass, plus upgrading the A33 to dual all the way.

In gold are Hertford and Harlow bypasses on the A414 corridor.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 02:07 AM   #2051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
And you're doing everything to prove your cognitive abilities to be on the same level as CNGL.

Sorry for being off-topic, I react reflexively to idiots.
Don't look in the mirror then.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #2052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Mine isn't very detailed:

.(..) upgrading the 2-lane bit of the M3 (with changes to junction 7 and 8 to allow this),
.
I do not know what was the base to grow this idea, so I have to add my thoughts regarding this bit of M3. 4 lane stretch of M3 is the least congested part of this motorway. Only problems there happen during high season's Fridays when 3 lane Southbound traffic merges into 2 lanes. Anyway it does not make huge queue.

Worst congested parts of M3 have place where A34 traffic meets M3 traffic:


And here:



I think, that in case 2 widening M3 slip road going into M25 would be enough to let the traffic flow easily.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #2053
sotonsi
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While the Winchester - Southampton part of the M3 is a lot busier, especially during the peak, it feels less congested (I used both bits yesterday in both directions, and it was the bit that felt that it coped least well with the traffic) and you don't have the problem that two-lane motorways have of elephant racing.

The 2-lane part of the M3 is like as if the bit between junction 8 and 9 of the M40 was two-lane - sure it's not the end of the world if it is, and the bits either side are busier, but I'd rather have a dual three-lane motorway that's at the bottom end of it's capacity than a dual two-lane motorway that's near the top end of it's capacity.

Of course, I'd also rather a dual four-lane motorway that feels empty than a three-lane one that feels rather full, like Winchester - Soton but that's less of a priority, IMV. A climbing/weaving lane up the hill from J11 to J10 would be useful though. I think the problem the M3 bypassing Chandler's Ford won't be solved by widening the motorway alone - you'd need local road improvements to distribute the traffic coming off the motorway effectively and to try and to reduce traffic using it.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 04:19 PM   #2054
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 09:36 PM   #2055
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Language question:

In the U.S., a route number like 395 would be spoken as "three-ninety-five"; in Britain, I believe, you'd say "three-nine-five." Correct me if I'm mistaken.

What about, say, the A130: "A-one-thirty" or "A-one-three-oh" (or "one-three-nought" or "...zero")?

And would you use "oh," "zero," or "nought" for the 0 in the A505?

Just curious....
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 09:42 PM   #2056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Language question:

In the U.S., a route number like 395 would be spoken as "three-ninety-five"; in Britain, I believe, you'd say "three-nine-five." Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Yup that's right.

Quote:
What about, say, the A130: "A-one-thirty" or "A-one-three-oh" (or "one-three-nought" or "...zero")?
It largely depends what sounds better/uses fewer syllables/is quicker to say... 130 probably one-thirty. 131 on the other hand would be one-three-one.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if in some corners of the UK it is different, depending on the local accent and how numbers are said generally.

Quote:
And would you use "oh," "zero," or "nought" for the 0 in the A505?

Just curious....
"oh" - so it would be "five-oh-five"
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:00 PM   #2057
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Interesting, in the Netherlands most people pronounce 3-digit numbers like they are written like "A threehundredtwentyfive".
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:08 PM   #2058
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In France too.
But I once, when asked my ZIP code (US postal code) at the tourist information center entering Quebec (I assume they want, for marketing purposes, to know where people are from), smoothly answered "dix-neuf-mille cent-deux" ("nineteen thousand one hundred and two") and the guy who was writing it down took a couple of seconds to process that. In France, which also has five-digit postal codes, they'd certainly have said it that way. But I've since noticed that French-speaking Canadians (generally speaking) give telephone numbers digit by digit, unlike the French.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:18 PM   #2059
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Yeah, it depends;

A thirty

A three one six

A one-thousand

M ninety

M twenty five

B one two eight five (whether that exists or not I don't know)
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:18 PM   #2060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post
Yup that's right.



It largely depends what sounds better/uses fewer syllables/is quicker to say... 130 probably one-thirty. 131 on the other hand would be one-three-one.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if in some corners of the UK it is different, depending on the local accent and how numbers are said generally.



"oh" - so it would be "five-oh-five"
Ta!
This question was provoked, by the way, not only by the last couple of pages of posts (I tend to read British people in a British voice....), but also by hearing Richard Hammond, on a Top Gear I was watching yesterday, say "A-four-one-double-seven." I that "double-seven" threw me: at first I was looking on the map for the A4117, then I realized, wait, that's not what he said....
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