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Old April 8th, 2011, 11:55 PM   #2221
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Question: couple years ago I was reading about a "congestion charge" in Manchester, albeit a different kind of that infamous rip-off charge in London.

Have plans stalled? Did the city abandoned intentions to put congestion charge in place there?
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Old April 9th, 2011, 02:20 AM   #2222
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It lost a referendum, for several reasons:
1) Central Government withdrew funding towards some tram extensions/other improvements and then offered the money on the condition of the congestion charge and the residents didn't like the bully-boy tactics. The residents won, as they got the money out of Westminster in the end, paying back the GMPTE share through council tax increases, rather than congestion charge.
2) The scheme was very ill thought out (perhaps deliberately) in relation to traffic flows and dealing with congestion.
3) They didn't want congestion charging in the first place, for all the normal reasons against it (lose of business, don't want to pay, etc)

It was a Greater Manchester area scheme, so all the boroughs, as well as both cities (the medieval city of Salford and it's upstart neighbour) got to vote. 78.8% of people voted against it, with about a 50% turnout (so higher than at a general election) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/7778110.stm has some run down of the voting by borough, of which I've worked out percentages for each council area:
Bolton 78.93%, Bury 79.44%, Manchester 72.17%, Oldham 79.68%, Rochdale 78.06%, Salford 84.45%, Stockport 81.15%, Tameside 83.58%, Trafford 80.34%, Wigan 73.86%

Pretty overwhelmingly against the idea, don't you think?

NB Greater Manchester, while much more mono-centric (Wigan borough is out on a limb, and the ring of large towns near the M60 mean that there are other hubs than Manchester city centre) than most other met counties, isn't just the city of Manchester.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #2223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
It was a Greater Manchester area scheme, so all the boroughs, as well as both cities (the medieval city of Salford and it's upstart neighbour) got to vote.
How did they do this with the London congestion charge?

I know they had a vote in the Stockholm area, after which only Stockholm city voted in favor for the congestion charge (by a very narrow margin) and 14 or so surrounding municipalities all voted against it, but they decided to base the outcome only on the Stockholm city results. If that was a vote in a third world country OSCE observers would be blasting the vote to be fraudulent.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #2224
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I don't think there was a vote
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Old April 9th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #2225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I don't think there was a vote
There wasn't a vote in London. Ken Livingstone got elected in 2000 and the central London congestion charge was a key part of his manifesto. However, the central area of London is pretty big, but most of it is business and not residential (most of the area south of the river is residential, however).

In 2004, he got re-elected, but he was talking about extending it to cover west London (as far as the West Cross Route), subject to a consultation. (That area did include a vast patch of suburbia, namely most of the area north of the A402 and south of Victoria.) When the consultation failed to recommend his extension, he went ahead and did it anyway, and when Boris Johnson stood for election in 2008, he promised to consult on removing it, which he did at the beginning of this year.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #2226
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By "which he did at the beginning of this year," do you mean he had the consultation he promised, or actually removed it? And if he removed it, was that for all of central London or only the areas you said were added?

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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #2227
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The western extension to the congestion charge was removed at the beginning of this year/end of last year, depending on whether you go by the last active day, or the first day when the central zone, but not the western extension, was active.

I seem to remember, back in the dark and distant past, Ken proposing an eastern extension (before the western extension was proposed), which amounted to nothing. It seems like the people of Tower Hamlets weren't too happy with the gift Ken was giving them for their support, so he turned his eyes west to places where he wasn't that popular to expand his plan.
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Old April 10th, 2011, 02:06 PM   #2228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
Specially in London I see more and more cars with the real Euroband with EU-stars and GB. I think more and more people in the UK think a modern car should have Euroband at the plates, like in the rest of Europe.
Depends what country of the UK you are in I suppose.

I have never seen a car registered here in Scotland (plate starts with S) with GB on the plate band.

They either have nothing or the SCO/saltire/euro stars configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Eurobands are default on new cars - most people either don't care, or don't care enough to buy a new number plate, but my point about Eurobands with GB being more controversial than the various illegal options still stands.
It is not default on new cars registered in Scotland to have GB. The default is actually nothing or SCO/saltire/euro stars configuration depending on the garage. Maybe this is due to the fact that it is controversial as you state.

In addition it is not illegal to have the SCO/saltire/euro stars configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
More than half the country is skeptical about the EU intergration project, about half want to leave and get back some self-determination (hence why we won't get asked, despite all three parties promising some sort of referendum on the EU)
I presume you are referring to the stance in England.

Most people in Scotland are happy to have SCO + saltire + euro stars.

It is probably due to the fact England is more EU sceptic than other UK countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I'd rather a modern car had a symbol that wasn't related to a trading block
The same could be said for Scotland regarding GB on the plate representing an obsolete political union (UK) instead of their country within the EU.

Last edited by JohnnyFive; April 10th, 2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2011, 03:20 PM   #2229
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By the way, the "GB" thing does have the eurostars, we're referring to this thing which appears to be rare up Sotonsi's way:

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Old April 10th, 2011, 05:42 PM   #2230
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Quote:
I have never seen a car registered here in Scotland (plate starts with S) with GB on the plate band.
Que? I see loads of the standard EU GB ones in Aberdeen and elsewhere in Scotland. My partner's car being one of those, too!
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Old April 10th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #2231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
By the way, the "GB" thing does have the eurostars, we're referring to this thing which appears to be rare up Sotonsi's way:

If someone has nothing better to do :-) could you explain the geography of letter codes? Then I'd understand Jeremy Clarkson's jokes about "R-regs," or whatever.
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Old April 10th, 2011, 06:12 PM   #2232
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Okay, in the last system (1983-2001), the letter meant the date of registration of the vehicle, "R" was from the 1st August 1997 until the 31st of July 1998. In the system previous to that (1963-1983), the "date letter" was at the end of the registration and "R" was from the 1st August 1976 to the 31st July 1977.

Normally and "R reg" is a car registered in 1997/1998

Under the current system, the cars are known as "06 reg" or "56" reg, "06" being January-July 2006 and "56" being July-December 2006.

---

The geographical letters in the new registrations are more complicated.

The first letter is a general region:

A- East Anglia
B- Birmingham
C- Cymru
D- Deeside
E- Essex
F- Forest and Fens
G- Garden of England ()
H- Hampshire, Dorset and the Isle of Wight
J- N/A
K- Luton and Northampton area
L- London
M- Manchester and Merseyside
N- North
O- Oxford
P- Preston
Q- N/A
R- Reading
S- Scotland
T- N/A
U- N/A
V- Severn Valley
W-
X- Export
Y- Yorkshire

A few of these were invented for convenience.
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Old April 10th, 2011, 06:13 PM   #2233
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Before 2001 age identifier was different.

Something like this. I can be a bit wrong.

W,X - 2000
T - 1999
S - 1998
R - 1997
N, P - 1996
M - 1995
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Old April 10th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #2234
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Didn't they say that the new system brought in around 2001 with the 02-52 etc was meant to mean that you would no longer be able to tell a cars ages from the number plate? I guess that never happened as they made it easier. I dunno if I'm getting mixed up with something though...
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Old April 10th, 2011, 09:07 PM   #2235
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In older system there was letter 'Q' as well. Cars of this kind could be registered with one:



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Old April 11th, 2011, 12:39 AM   #2236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
Didn't they say that the new system brought in around 2001 with the 02-52 etc was meant to mean that you would no longer be able to tell a cars ages from the number plate? I guess that never happened as they made it easier. I dunno if I'm getting mixed up with something though...
You were always meant to be able to tell the age of the car, but they can only tell you roughly (to the six months) how old it is -- with the old system, if someone had one- or two-figure number, that dated it to the first week or so of the year. There was a lot of jockeying to get the first (and first few) numbers, and the random-letter system we have now cuts all that out.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #2237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I seem to remember, back in the dark and distant past, Ken proposing an eastern extension (before the western extension was proposed), which amounted to nothing. It seems like the people of Tower Hamlets weren't too happy with the gift Ken was giving them for their support, so he turned his eyes west to places where he wasn't that popular to expand his plan.
The eastern extension could never have happened, as there is no boundary road that could have been used in east London. Also, east London is suburbia, not central London. You can tell just by driving along the Whitechapel or Commercial Roads (A11 and A13 east of Aldgate).
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Old April 11th, 2011, 12:51 AM   #2238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
Under the current system, the cars are known as "06 reg" or "56" reg, "06" being January-July 2006 and "56" being July-December 2006.
It isn't that simple. From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle...United_Kingdom

Quote:
A two-digit age identifier, which changes twice a year, in March and September. The code is either the last two digits of the year itself if issued between March and August (e.g. "10" for registrations issued between 1 March and 31 August 2010), or else has 50 added to that value if issued between September and February the following year (e.g. "60" for registrations issued between 1 September 2010 and 28 February 2011).
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Old April 11th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #2239
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When driving cars here in the UK, the yearly MOT is usually a time of discomfort. A big complaint is that mechanic shops have a vested interest in failing you, as you will probably then pay then to do the 'necessary repairs'.

I found a place called here in the East Midlands(they have 4 or 5 branches) that does MOT testing ONLY, not repairs. Even though my car failed this year, they were for things that were easy to fix. Before I knew about this place, places like Kwik Fit and a local garage would fail my car and then want hundreds of pounds to repair it.

Has anyone ever done any sort of investigation into this. I don't know if it is provable that garages fail people in oder to rake in the dough, but seems like many do, and that making it illegal to allow garages to also do MOT testing makes sense. Of course, some of you might disagree. :-)
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Old April 11th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #2240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post

I have never seen a car registered here in Scotland (plate starts with S) with GB on the plate band.
Absolutely 110% not true. Wife and I just did a 4 day drive up to Inverness a few weeks ago. While, yes, we saw some cars with the Euroband with SCO on the number plates, we saw FAR MORE cars with the Euroband with the GB or nothing at all. So, when you say you have never seen a car in Scotland with the GB Euroband, I am very very surprised. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post

In addition it is not illegal to have the SCO/saltire/euro stars configuration.
You're right, it is not illegal, as long as you are driving WITHIN the UK. If you drive to the continent however, you will have to change the Euroband on your number plate so it says GB. Placing the white oval sticker on the back of the car isn't enough because the front number plate will still have the SCO Euroband on it, and again, this is only legal within the UK. However, if the car has no Euroband whatsoever you could then just place the white oval sticker with the GB on the back of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post

The same could be said for Scotland regarding GB on the plate representing an obsolete political union (UK) instead of their country within the EU.
Please, not the Scotland is a country argument again!! Let's not get into this again, Chris might again start deleting sections of our thread as he did before.
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