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Old July 4th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #2541
CairnsTony
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
No, you should try driving in South Florida; it's like NASCAR, or the Grand Pricks. Combine aggressive / reckless driving with poor driving and many people who are either uninsured, drunk, or under the influence of a certain white powder, or too old to drive + the regular hit & runs.

Unless driving standards in the UK have slipped over the past decade, driving on the M25 during rush hour, while it's pissing it down with rain would be a picnic compared to the above.
Same applies here. Drink and drug driving are openly tolerated; people constantly jump lights, do illegal and unexpected U-turns (I've seen a few smashes result from this); the driving is every bit as bad in the sticks too with all the road trains and pissed up trailer drivers weaving all over the road.

Most British drivers don't even compare.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #2542
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
You can of course use the exit to reach the A6, but why would anyone drive through Schwetzingen when the A656 is a few kilometers to the North.
If you come in from the South and did not already use the Walldorfer Kreuz to switch to the A6, the B535 Spange is the best choice. Immediately after the Heidelberg/Schwetzingen exit follows a 100-km/h-limited zone for the next 5 km to Heidelberger Kreuz that is constantly jammed; from there you switch onto the A656 for 10 km, which is 120-km/h-limited.
The B535 has a short 70 km/h limit in the Schwetzingen bypass tunnel, other than that it's 100 km/h, not jammed, and in perfect road condition considering most of it only opened last year (and not in 1936, like the A656). You no longer drive through Schwetzingen itself.

My personal suggestion is that the interchange symbol is used to impress upon people that it's "equivalent" to Heidelberger Kreuz with regard to entering the city, in an attempt to draw traffic away from the A5 onto B535 and L600a.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #2543
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Due to a bad infrastructure, with overcrowding on all the main motorways (M1, M6, M25) and bad driving, makes the UK one of the worst countries to drive in. Any UK - European driver will tell you that. Services are among the worst in Europe. Any European driver - not being an Anglophile - will tell you that. I've driven in nearly all European nations now - that's my job. I drive with an English or Austrian numberplate - with pride - and got nothing against England as a country.
Are you on about England or the UK as your post confuses the two?

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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
UK have ludicrously short network for a country of 62 million people.
The UK is not a country but is a unitary state.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 12:36 PM   #2544
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Are you on about England or the UK as your post confuses the two?
The UK. And as the UK has its own membership in the EU, NATO, UN, Commonwealth etc etc - to me it's a country, with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland not having anymore status then Bavaria or Tyrol. And after all I assume you've got a British passport, and not a Scottish one.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #2545
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Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post
The UK is not a country but is a unitary state.
Come on...if you want to start discussing political semantics, a Road Infrastructure board is not the place to do it. I understand your desire for an independent Scotland - and it may even happen one day. But right now, to anyone who does not spend the majority of their time considering the case for Scottish independence (ie most people) the UK is a country.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 01:43 PM   #2546
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Originally Posted by Harry View Post
Come on...if you want to start discussing political semantics, a Road Infrastructure board is not the place to do it. I understand your desire for an independent Scotland - and it may even happen one day. But right now, to anyone who does not spend the majority of their time considering the case for Scottish independence (ie most people) the UK is a country.
There are a lot of separatist-nationalists lingering around on this forum. There is another one about on the Belgian thread...
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Old July 5th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #2547
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Density of the network is the real issue. UK have ludicrously short network for a country of 62 million people. What helps a bit is fact that most of them are 3 lane wide but still more would be welcomed.
It is true that statistically, the UK does has a short network, but in reality, in terms of the way the network works, it does go to all the places you want. Its only really East Anglia and Cornwall that are missed, but its not as if they are big population centres...

There are only a few route that are missing such as Manchester-Sheffield and another cross country motorway like M62 but further south...
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Old July 5th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #2548
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
It is true that statistically, the UK does has a short network, but in reality, in terms of the way the network works, it does go to all the places you want. Its only really East Anglia and Cornwall that are missed, but its not as if they are big population centres...

There are only a few route that are missing such as Manchester-Sheffield and another cross country motorway like M62 but further south...
The other cross country road other then the M4 and M62 would be the A14. And that should be rapidly upgraded to a motorway. And also extend the lorry overtaking ban. Other than that you're stuck with cutting across through Nottingham or Mansfield (M1 -->A1)
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Old July 5th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #2549
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Are you on about England or the UK as your post confuses the two?

The UK is not a country but is a unitary state.
There is no hard and fast definition of what a "country" is - sometimes it can mean an independent state and othertimes not. England, Scotland and Wales are often regarded as separate countries without any political connotation.

This does have some relevance to roads in the UK as Scotland has a significant level of self-government and their policy seems a bit different from the one in England and Wales. In Scotland there has seen significant motorway building recently such as the M74 extension, but the rest of the UK has not.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The UK. And as the UK has its own membership in the EU, NATO, UN, Commonwealth etc etc - to me it's a country, with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland not having anymore status then Bavaria or Tyrol. And after all I assume you've got a British passport, and not a Scottish one.
So why do you consider England a country then?

It's not really an issue of separatism, I'm sure most English people wouldn't like the UK to be constantly referred to as Scotland or Wales regardless of their political views!

Anyway, I'm sure it was just a slip of the tongue
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #2551
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
It is true that statistically, the UK does has a short network, but in reality, in terms of the way the network works, it does go to all the places you want. Its only really East Anglia and Cornwall that are missed, but its not as if they are big population centres...

There are only a few route that are missing such as Manchester-Sheffield and another cross country motorway like M62 but further south...
I also think A1(M) should be extended all the way from Newcastle to Edinburgh. And also the low quality gaps further south should be converted to full motorway standard. By the way all this A1(M) designation must be confusing for foreigner drivers. Let say some bloke in Poland or Germany looks on a map and, going from London to let say Newcastle, he sees this bizarre thing of A1(M).
Is it a motorway? is it a "A" road? Is it a plane? Nooo it's the Superman!

Seriously, can it be changed to some proper motorway number? Maybe once it is more or less continuous at least until Newcastle? I know further north we hit problems of Scottish independence, like with the unfortunate M6-A74(M)-M74 link.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 02:21 AM   #2552
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The M6-A74(M)-M74 'mess' is not a problem caused by Scottish devolution, but English dithering over filling the Cumberland Gap and the A74(M) number sticking. Given they were two routes that then got joined up (and Scotland got it's bit done a full 12 years before the English), it's not that bad - with extra niceness that it happens pretty much on the border.

France is full of things like this: the A71-A75 (the southern-most section of A71 and the northern-most of A75 opened at the same time so there's no reasoning for it) or the A480-A51 (they even have the same junction numbering scheme) for instance.

To turn the A1(M) into the M10 (say) would be fairly sacrilege - the A1 number is well known and to just remove a large chunk of it would be controversial. It's not as if the continentals (most foreign drivers in the UK) use numbers much to navigate anyway and there's the chopsticks and blue signs, so it's pretty obviously a motorway, unless you aren't fit to drive in the UK. Foreign drivers that would get confused ought not be on our roads and the odds are that they wouldn't even notice the road number to get confused. A complete waste of money to change it as it would benefit no one but sign and pamphlet makers.

Anyway, large renumbering schemes have been ruled out by the Highways Agency after how much bother the M60 caused, so it won't happen on the Glasgow - Gretna route (and last week would have been the best time to do it if it was ever to happen), nor the A1. Scottish Authorities have issued a formal statement saying that it would be expensive and too few people care, so pointless.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 03:22 AM   #2553
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
It is true that statistically, the UK does has a short network, but in reality, in terms of the way the network works, it does go to all the places you want. Its only really East Anglia and Cornwall that are missed, but its not as if they are big population centres...
Tyane & Wear is a major population centre and there is still no motorway link there. Even between London and Manchester one is advised to leave the motorway network once before rejoining it. And there is still no continuous motorway link between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Aberdeen, Bournemouth, Brighton, Ipswich, Norwich and Plymouth are missed out by the British motorway network. It depends what you regard as big population centres. But cities of their size are connected to the motorway network in always every other developed country.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 04:23 AM   #2554
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There is no hard and fast definition of what a "country" is - sometimes it can mean an independent state and othertimes not. England, Scotland and Wales are often regarded as separate countries without any political connotation.

This does have some relevance to roads in the UK as Scotland has a significant level of self-government and their policy seems a bit different from the one in England and Wales. In Scotland there has seen significant motorway building recently such as the M74 extension, but the rest of the UK has not.
Speaking as a native speaker of English who's not from the UK, I think in reference to any place in the world other than the UK, "country" does in fact mean "nation-state." I've always found the use of the word "country" for the major subdivisions of the UK slightly bizarre, but apparently it's accepted there and (or perhaps because) there isn't another one. That said, I'm not clear the UK is a unitary state any more (or ever was, in view of for example the maintenance since before 1707 of separate legal systems), but evolving to something like a federal state. Now all you need is a separate legislative body serving just England.

My two cents. Or tuppence. Not that anyone asked.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #2555
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I also think A1(M) should be extended all the way from Newcastle to Edinburgh. And also the low quality gaps further south should be converted to full motorway standard. By the way all this A1(M) designation must be confusing for foreigner drivers. Let say some bloke in Poland or Germany looks on a map and, going from London to let say Newcastle, he sees this bizarre thing of A1(M).
Is it a motorway? is it a "A" road? Is it a plane? Nooo it's the Superman!
This has been discussed before, I know, but I do agree with you - completely. A road is either a motorway, or it isn't. The Ax(M) classification is unwieldy and confusing to everyone other than road geeks...and I would love to see it disappear.

The fact that no other country on earth (at least that I am aware of) uses a classification like this tells you everything that you need to know about this confusing and messy system of classification. I appreciate the argument about being able to apply the classification to sections of a Ax route, but even still - I don't find this argument persuasive enough for keeping it.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #2556
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Lots of countries use it - Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, the USA (both US and state highways), etc. Oh wait, they don't helpfully tell you the places where the road is motorway with a handy (M) suffix - instead you have motorway sections of the PR15, E6, Rv73, Vt4, US101, state route 30, etc, but also non-motorway sections of the PR15, E6, Rv73, Vt4, US101, state route 30, etc, with no extra distinction than the chopsticks signs or equivalent.

Given geogregor attacked the many numbers of the Glasgow - Carlisle motorway in the same post, I can't see why he'd demand that motorways that form part of an A roads' route shouldn't be able to retain the A roads' number, but rather have to have a different number.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #2557
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Speaking as a native speaker of English who's not from the UK, I think in reference to any place in the world other than the UK, "country" does in fact mean "nation-state." I've always found the use of the word "country" for the major subdivisions of the UK slightly bizarre, but apparently it's accepted there and (or perhaps because) there isn't another one. That said, I'm not clear the UK is a unitary state any more (or ever was, in view of for example the maintenance since before 1707 of separate legal systems), but evolving to something like a federal state. Now all you need is a separate legislative body serving just England.

My two cents. Or tuppence. Not that anyone asked.
Agreed, I find it rather strange too. I think that the UK should become properly federal, but I disagree that England should have its own government, partly because is dislike the English flag because drunk hooligans like it, but mainly because its big, and the Yorkshire Moors wouldn't really fit into the the same state as the Yorkshire Moors. Also, it would be much much bigger (population wise) than the other "thingys" together.

Westminster would become for federal matters only. Ireland could join too, with each province being a province but like a state. The overseas territories would become states too, except for the very small ones, which could be grouped together.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 05:03 PM   #2558
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Tyane & Wear is a major population centre and there is still no motorway link there. Even between London and Manchester one is advised to leave the motorway network once before rejoining it. And there is still no continuous motorway link between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Aberdeen, Bournemouth, Brighton, Ipswich, Norwich and Plymouth are missed out by the British motorway network. It depends what you regard as big population centres. But cities of their size are connected to the motorway network in always every other developed country.
But almost all of them are linked to said motorway network by at the very least D2, a lot of which is HQDC.

Aberdeen - A90
Bournemouth - A31 and A338
Brighton - A23
Ipswich - A12 and A14
Norwich - A11 (with the upgrade to the single carriageway section at Elveden due to start soon)
Plymouth - A38 Devon Expressway

And of all them, I'd only really say that Bournemouth could use an improved link to the M27. The A338 works well, but the A31 beyond is sub-standard and I'd like to see a motorway extension to the A338 junction just after Ringwood. No I'm not advocating the daft 'South Coast Motorway' ideas, I just think the A31 through the New Forest is particularly poor, heavily trafficked and consequently could use an upgrade, so why not make it motorway? After the A338 junction traffic is much lower (hence the fall in quality of the road) and as such doesn't need an upgrade.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 06:34 PM   #2559
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Lots of countries use it - Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, the USA (both US and state highways), etc. Oh wait, they don't helpfully tell you the places where the road is motorway with a handy (M) suffix - instead you have motorway sections of the PR15, E6, Rv73, Vt4, US101, state route 30, etc, but also non-motorway sections of the PR15, E6, Rv73, Vt4, US101, state route 30, etc, with no extra distinction than the chopsticks signs or equivalent.

Given geogregor attacked the many numbers of the Glasgow - Carlisle motorway in the same post, I can't see why he'd demand that motorways that form part of an A roads' route shouldn't be able to retain the A roads' number, but rather have to have a different number.
Is there a rule in the UK about interrupting a route number? By which I mean, if you did change the A1(M) into the M-something (and remind me whether there's more than one segment called A1(M)), thus creating gaps in the A1, would you have to do something about the gaps - rerouting the A1 along older roads, say?
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #2560
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Given geogregor attacked the many numbers of the Glasgow - Carlisle motorway in the same post, I can't see why he'd demand that motorways that form part of an A roads' route shouldn't be able to retain the A roads' number, but rather have to have a different number.
I didn't attack, if anything I usually defend UK motorways on this forum. I just pointed one if the peculiarities of the British road numbering. It's not big deal for me but I can imagine it can be confusing for some visitors.
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