daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 6th, 2011, 09:52 PM   #2561
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,434
Likes (Received): 896

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Is there a rule in the UK about interrupting a route number? By which I mean, if you did change the A1(M) into the M-something (and remind me whether there's more than one segment called A1(M)), thus creating gaps in the A1, would you have to do something about the gaps - rerouting the A1 along older roads, say?
No
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 7th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #2562
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Map Guy View Post
And of all them, I'd only really say that Bournemouth could use an improved link to the M27. The A338 works well, but the A31 beyond is sub-standard and I'd like to see a motorway extension to the A338 junction just after Ringwood. No I'm not advocating the daft 'South Coast Motorway' ideas, I just think the A31 through the New Forest is particularly poor, heavily trafficked and consequently could use an upgrade, so why not make it motorway? After the A338 junction traffic is much lower (hence the fall in quality of the road) and as such doesn't need an upgrade.
I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the fact that the New Forest is a National Park, and before that was a National Forest.

You can only imagine the uproar from the ultra-conservative constituents of West Hants to the idea....
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #2563
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Map Guy View Post
I just think the A31 through the New Forest is particularly poor, heavily trafficked and consequently could use an upgrade, so why not make it motorway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the fact that the New Forest is a National Park, and before that was a National Forest.
The M27 used to end right on the edge of the Forest (which was expanded in the change to National Park, which is reckoned to have reduced the protection the area has, hence local uproar at the creation of the National Park). However, it wouldn't be that hard to skirt it to the north, leaving a rump bit of M27 heading into the forest.
Quote:
You can only imagine the uproar from the ultra-conservative constituents of West Hants to the idea....
I think the uproar would just be as bad if we were talking about people who weren't strongly blue-rinse Tories who seem to dislike modernity and like ponies and cream teas and fast cars going slowly (well that's what Lyndhurst is). Look at the reaction to dualling the Acle Straight in Norfolk - the urban people of Norwich and the rural people living in the Broads were all pretty against it.
Quote:
After the A338 junction traffic is much lower (hence the fall in quality of the road) and as such doesn't need an upgrade.
I massively disagree with that - the A31 west of Ringwood is worse than east of Ringwood - east of Ringwood has some sub-standard bits (curves, houses right next to the road, lowered speed limits) and the D3 to D2 causes a bottleneck, but at least the road moves once past that. West of Ringwood doesn't need to be a motorway, but it needs to be an awful lot better than it is.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2011, 02:44 PM   #2564
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
The M27 used to end right on the edge of the Forest (which was expanded in the change to National Park, which is reckoned to have reduced the protection the area has, hence local uproar at the creation of the National Park). However, it wouldn't be that hard to skirt it to the north, leaving a rump bit of M27 heading into the forest.I think the uproar would just be as bad if we were talking about people who weren't strongly blue-rinse Tories who seem to dislike modernity and like ponies and cream teas and fast cars going slowly (well that's what Lyndhurst is). Look at the reaction to dualling the Acle Straight in Norfolk - the urban people of Norwich and the rural people living in the Broads were all pretty against it.
Fair point re: opposition, but I mentioned many pages back that Scotland seems to be able to get on with these sorts of projects more effectively (yes I know there was some strong opposition to the M74 extension for example), but they still built it. Is it an 'English' thing I wonder...

Btw, it's not as if it's unique to the UK: they want to build a freeway out of Cairns (where I live naturally) going into the hills towards Kuranda which would go through a National Park and World Heritage area. Unsurprisingly the opposition is strong and I think with the current plans with good reason...

As I understand it, the designation of the New Forest as National Park was felt would attract more attention (?!) to the place, thus more interest from developers bringing tourist facilities; more traffic etc.

Well I'm not sure what the specific legislation is regarding this particular NP so have no idea if these fears have any grounding in reality, but seriously... how did the UK get to such an impasse so it would seem regarding development anywhere other than brownfield sites? In my experience, the UK gets it right far more often than not, with many developments. I just wish Australia (or rather I should say Queensland) was anywhere near as good at environmental impact assessments of some of the rather less well conceived crackpot development ideas that are bandied around...
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #2565
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Australia has a population density similar to Montana, England has a population density similar to Rhode Island - there's a reason why we don't like 'greenfield' development, and that's because we have a lot less 'greenfield' land to develop, so have to try and get the most out of the land we already have developed.

Quote:
As I understand it, the designation of the New Forest as National Park was felt would attract more attention (?!) to the place, thus more interest from developers bringing tourist facilities; more traffic etc.
That wasn't an issue, the New Forest was always massively popular and the National Park status, rather than the unique status would put off developers as they would understand more that it wasn't going to happen - there was already huge pressure for development (including upgrading the A31 to reasonable standards - getting it dualled was a massive problem in the first place). The issue was the transfer of powers from the (50% elected) Verderers to the National Park Authority, who might not be as strict and anti-development as the Verderers, who only let the A31 be dualled because of the problems the traffic was causing, spread out over the Forest's road network trying to avoid the jams.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2011, 04:06 PM   #2566
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,434
Likes (Received): 896

Having never gone to the New Forest I decided to look at the A31. For some reason, google street view, for the images of the westbound A31 through Ringwood shows a road called Stour Road which turns out to be the B3059 in Christchurch
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 7th, 2011, 10:51 PM   #2567
Chris_533976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Likes (Received): 27

All the mucking about in the New Forest with roads leads to Lyndhurst being a dreadful bottleneck during the summer.
Chris_533976 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2011, 04:01 AM   #2568
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,531
Likes (Received): 19217

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Australia has a population density similar to Montana, England has a population density similar to Rhode Island - there's a reason why we don't like 'greenfield' development, and that's because we have a lot less 'greenfield' land to develop, so have to try and get the most out of the land we already have developed.
Fair enough, but I think all this anti-development mood went way too far.
People oppose virtually everything. Motorways, railways, airports even damn fish & chips huts.
How the hell this country suppose to move forward and compete with the likes of Germany or France, not even mentioning Asian countries? Do Brits think their position in the world is granted forever?
Transport infrastructure in UK is so overloaded and at the same time society is unwilling to do anything about it.
There is a lot of things I like about Britain but this aspect of British psyche drives me mad.
geogregor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #2569
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Fair enough, but I think all this anti-development mood went way too far.
People oppose virtually everything. Motorways, railways, airports even damn fish & chips huts.
How the hell this country suppose to move forward and compete with the likes of Germany or France, not even mentioning Asian countries? Do Brits think their position in the world is granted forever?
Transport infrastructure in UK is so overloaded and at the same time society is unwilling to do anything about it.
There is a lot of things I like about Britain but this aspect of British psyche drives me mad.
It's definitely not everyone Geogregor; I'm British myself, though I now live in Australia and have an Environmental Science degree, but I also am realistic and pretty objective in what I view as 'appropriate' development. Some developments are clearly not acceptable, but it's not as if everyone just opposes every development that comes along. Considering how different the prevailing view seemed to be in the 70s, there's clearly been a swing towards the 'anti' lobby, but it's far from universal. You only have to gauge the views of many UK-based forumers here. There's clearly frustration about the current status quo.

I don't accept the notion, for example of ploughing a motorway through the Peak District to link Manchester and Sheffield. A motorway along that route would only get consent if a bloody great big tunnel was built; in other words a very expensive solution indeed...

What amazes me is that many British farmers have been allowed to carry out environmentally destructive hedgerow removal on a huge scale since the war, turning parts of the British countryside into ecological deserts, but sticking up a few new houses on a greenfield site causes uproar. Where's the consistency in that? There's often a difference between perception and reality.

Regarding the A31: I actually think here you can have your cake and eat it. The road could be upgraded in situ but a modest section could be put into 'cut and cover' as they did with the M25 under Epping Forest. The current road presents an ecological barrier to larger animals and some other wildlife. With a section in tunnel, you would actually be linking the two parts of the park together, creating a valuable ecological corridor which wildlife would use. Research backs up the effectiveness of this approach.

You would get a better road and the wildlife would benefit too.

And as it happens, the verges along motorways and other major roads are like linear nature reserves. They are not farmed, don't usually get sprayed and have been shown to be valuable refuges for many rare species. So who says roads are all bad?
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #2570
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,531
Likes (Received): 19217

Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
It's definitely not everyone Geogregor; I'm British myself, though I now live in Australia and have an Environmental Science degree, but I also am realistic and pretty objective in what I view as 'appropriate' development. Some developments are clearly not acceptable, but it's not as if everyone just opposes every development that comes along. Considering how different the prevailing view seemed to be in the 70s, there's clearly been a swing towards the 'anti' lobby, but it's far from universal. You only have to gauge the views of many UK-based forumers here. There's clearly frustration about the current status quo.
Of course anti-development attitude is not universal but it's very common. Forumers on Skyscrapercity are usually a bit different but if you check press coverage of any major development or even attempt to build anything in the UK there is usually massive uproar from environmentalists, local residents, heritage preservation buffs etc.
When I was following discussion about Heathrow or Stanstead new runaways I just couldn't believe what I heard. It seems like most of people want to freeze country in time. Won't build anything, won't change anything. Just keep things as they are. Stop flying, stop driving, cycle everywhere etc.

Quote:
I don't accept the notion, for example of ploughing a motorway through the Peak District to link Manchester and Sheffield. A motorway along that route would only get consent if a bloody great big tunnel was built; in other words a very expensive solution indeed...
If tunnel is needed why not? I'm not very familiar with traffic situation between Manchester and Sheffield but tunnel there wouldn't be as difficult as many tunnels in Alps or even in relatively poorer countries like Croatia.
If they can built tunnels it why not UK? It is all due to attitudes. I hope it will eventually swing to more balanced approach because at the moment building any road in UK (or at least England) seems like impossible.
geogregor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2011, 03:52 PM   #2571
ed110220
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 236
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Fair enough, but I think all this anti-development mood went way too far.
People oppose virtually everything. Motorways, railways, airports even damn fish & chips huts.
How the hell this country suppose to move forward and compete with the likes of Germany or France, not even mentioning Asian countries? Do Brits think their position in the world is granted forever?
Transport infrastructure in UK is so overloaded and at the same time society is unwilling to do anything about it.
There is a lot of things I like about Britain but this aspect of British psyche drives me mad.
I think that there is a strong element of complacency about it. Britain has had many advantages over the years, in the past the British Empire and more recently the enormous role of London as a world financial centre. I think the attitude has existed that the country can exist off financial services and housing speculation and doesn't need to lower itself to dirty controversial things like motorways or airports.

Don't get me started on Heathrow; Havana's Jose Marti international airport operates more efficiently in my experience, and that isn't saying much!
ed110220 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #2572
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed110220 View Post
I think that there is a strong element of complacency about it. Britain has had many advantages over the years, in the past the British Empire and more recently the enormous role of London as a world financial centre. I think the attitude has existed that the country can exist off financial services and housing speculation and doesn't need to lower itself to dirty controversial things like motorways or airports.

Don't get me started on Heathrow; Havana's Jose Marti international airport operates more efficiently in my experience, and that isn't saying much!
Well, too bad . Maybe it's a time then to come off this high horse ? By the way London's roads are quite appauling considering size and status of this city a capital of the world. But it's probably too late now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
If tunnel is needed why not? I'm not very familiar with traffic situation between Manchester and Sheffield but tunnel there wouldn't be as difficult as many tunnels in Alps or even in relatively poorer countries like Croatia.
If they can built tunnels it why not UK? It is all due to attitudes. I hope it will eventually swing to more balanced approach because at the moment building any road in UK (or at least England) seems like impossible.
I have been travelling on many occasions from Barnsley/Sheffield via A628 and it's quite filled with lorries all the way. It gets even worse in small towns near Manchester like Mottram or Hollingworth. Then it turns into one massive jam. If you are desperate then use M1 and M62 but it's not that much better due to longer distance and high levels of traffic.

Last edited by Mateusz; July 8th, 2011 at 10:34 PM.
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2011, 12:26 AM   #2573
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
It's definitely not everyone Geogregor; I'm British myself, though I now live in Australia and have an Environmental Science degree, but I also am realistic and pretty objective in what I view as 'appropriate' development. Some developments are clearly not acceptable, but it's not as if everyone just opposes every development that comes along. Considering how different the prevailing view seemed to be in the 70s, there's clearly been a swing towards the 'anti' lobby, but it's far from universal. You only have to gauge the views of many UK-based forumers here. There's clearly frustration about the current status quo.
Its not so much the normal people that are against development its organisations that have a big voice against them! It gets me very annoyed! A 2mile bypass takes sometimes 10 years to get approved...awful!
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #2574
Highwaycrazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Transport infrastructure in UK is so overloaded
I remember hearing in the 1990's that London could barely afford the Underground. If more people are using it, is that not a good thing?
Highwaycrazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2011, 05:07 AM   #2575
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,531
Likes (Received): 19217

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
If more people are using it, is that not a good thing?
More people????
Underground trains already resemble more of the cattle transports than transportation system for humans.
Actually cattle could never be transported in such awful conditions due to animal welfare regulations. But no one gives a damn about how Londoners travel
geogregor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2011, 06:17 PM   #2576
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
If tunnel is needed why not? I'm not very familiar with traffic situation between Manchester and Sheffield but tunnel there wouldn't be as difficult as many tunnels in Alps or even in relatively poorer countries like Croatia.
If they can built tunnels it why not UK? It is all due to attitudes. I hope it will eventually swing to more balanced approach because at the moment building any road in UK (or at least England) seems like impossible.
I wasn't saying it can't or shouldn't be done. But you only have to look at how much it cost to build the short section of tunnel on the A3 at the Devil's Kneading Trough. Unbelievably expensive compared to just about anywhere else.

EDIT: Sorry I meant the Devil's Punch Bowl; said Kneading Trough is in Kent; Old Nick likes to get around...

Last edited by CairnsTony; July 15th, 2011 at 12:22 PM.
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #2577
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
I wasn't saying it can't or shouldn't be done. But you only have to look at how much it cost to build the short section of tunnel on the A3 at the Devil's Kneading Trough. Unbelievably expensive compared to just about anywhere else.
It's not a suprise, is it ? Now it will cost way more comparing to if it was done earlier
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2011, 04:25 PM   #2578
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,095
Likes (Received): 7514

__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #2579
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Nice video as usual, PortoNuts.


---------------------


Just about...

































I assume there is no need to explain where we are.
__________________
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #2580
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Looks superb.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorway, united kingdom

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium