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Old August 15th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #2641
sotonsi
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They were, but it was kicked into long grass again.

If we're honest, traffic levels aren't pressing for upgrading it - widening the A1(M) in county Durham would be a better use of money.

That said, it ought to be done anyway and it's silly to postpone it again.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 03:36 PM   #2642
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Old August 15th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #2643
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They might as well make motorway regulations for the whole A1, at least as far north as Newcastle, they're gonna do it at some point in the future, if not today, tommorow
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Old August 15th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #2644
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I think it's only logical to have a true motorway connecting London to Edinburgh, crossing the whole thing.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #2645
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IMV, here's the potential likelyhood of conversion to motorway of sections of the A1 in the next 50 years:
Leeming - Barton 90%
Brampton - Alconbury 90%
Doncaster - Darrington 70%
Peterborough - Stamford 50%
Stamford - Doncaster 25%
Newcastle - Edinburgh ~10% (different sections, different amounts, but still not going to happen)
Mill Hill - South Mimms 5%
Baldock - Brampton 3%
London - Mill Hill 0%

Edinburgh - London motorway route will be via Carlisle (and a bit of non-motorway in the A725), London - Newcastle motorway route will be via M1, London - Peterborough motorway route will be via Stansted.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 09:48 PM   #2646
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If they made a motorway through Mill Hill that would be interesting

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; August 15th, 2011 at 10:30 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 10:04 PM   #2647
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Better save the money then and build the South coastal motorway.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:38 AM   #2648
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Old August 16th, 2011, 06:10 AM   #2649
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I have a question: why a network mentality has always been lacking in regard of British highways?

A look at a map will show that there are many incomplete highways major links between major cities, dotted with lesser roads, 2+2 expressways with grade crossings, 1+2 sectors plagued with roundabouts etc.

Scotland, for instance, has a severe lack of highways north of Perth. An eastern link on motorway-standard only between Edinburgh and cities southward doesn't exist (that route has grade crossings and 1+1 sectors!!!). Northern Ireland is also severely lacking a network.

Note that I'm not talking about plenty of urban highways, just a continuous link from Inverness to Plymouth.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #2650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortoNuts View Post
Hey Porto..

Nice video. Interesting that since I left in 2002, the UK's motorways now have the same overhead gantries as used over here in the US. It makes the motorways look very "American", despite driving on the wrong side of the road (because once you've driven on the right side, you can never go back!).
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #2651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a question: why a network mentality has always been lacking in regard of British highways?

A look at a map will show that there are many incomplete highways major links between major cities, dotted with lesser roads, 2+2 expressways with grade crossings, 1+2 sectors plagued with roundabouts etc.

Scotland, for instance, has a severe lack of highways north of Perth. An eastern link on motorway-standard only between Edinburgh and cities southward doesn't exist (that route has grade crossings and 1+1 sectors!!!). Northern Ireland is also severely lacking a network.

Note that I'm not talking about plenty of urban highways, just a continuous link from Inverness to Plymouth.
NIMBY'ism

Money

... that's it
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:33 PM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
IMV, here's the potential likelyhood of conversion to motorway of sections of the A1 in the next 50 years:
Leeming - Barton 90%
Brampton - Alconbury 90%
Doncaster - Darrington 70%
Peterborough - Stamford 50%
Stamford - Doncaster 25%
Newcastle - Edinburgh ~10% (different sections, different amounts, but still not going to happen)
Mill Hill - South Mimms 5%
Baldock - Brampton 3%
London - Mill Hill 0%

Edinburgh - London motorway route will be via Carlisle (and a bit of non-motorway in the A725), London - Newcastle motorway route will be via M1, London - Peterborough motorway route will be via Stansted.
Well it just seems weird then that they numbered the junctions on the motorway sections if there is no realistic intent to link them together.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:41 PM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a question: why a network mentality has always been lacking in regard of British highways?

A look at a map will show that there are many incomplete highways major links between major cities, dotted with lesser roads, 2+2 expressways with grade crossings, 1+2 sectors plagued with roundabouts etc.

Scotland, for instance, has a severe lack of highways north of Perth. An eastern link on motorway-standard only between Edinburgh and cities southward doesn't exist (that route has grade crossings and 1+1 sectors!!!). Northern Ireland is also severely lacking a network.

Note that I'm not talking about plenty of urban highways, just a continuous link from Inverness to Plymouth.
The motorway network is integrated into the wider road network and a motorway is only necessary when traffic volumes exceed a certain threashold.

There's hardly anything in Scotland apart from Edinburgh and Glasgow, and I doubt there's enough traffic in the Scottish wilderness to warrant full-on motorways. There aren't any significant settlements between Perth and Inverness, and indeed between Edinburgh and Newcastle, and you can generally manage 60mph all the way, which is what you can do on a busy motorway in any case. There's no justification for a grade-separated junction or a parallel local road if it's only going to be used by a few dozens of vehicles a day. Mass 'motorisation' is Scotland would bring very little benefit.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 01:43 PM   #2654
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Inverness is the example par excellence of why the edges of the country don't have motorway - less than 75,000 people and 100 miles away from Perth with very little inbetween. Certainly the A9 needs improvements, and it's getting them. However a motorway would just be overkill (that said, I've seen documents about the Highland Motorway, which would have been converting the Far North rail line to Thurso and Wick into a road - guessing single carriageway, but as it's new build, there's no real reason why it shouldn't be a Special Road limited to class I and II traffic only).

As for A1(M) junction numbers, it doesn't seem like they are for total motorway conversion - it has been put on the cards in the mid-90s, but the junction numbers pre-date that by a few years (other than on Alconbury - Peterborough and Darrington - Dishforth, which got built later). If you look at the Dishforth (49) to Barton (56) scheme, you'll notice that there's not enough junctions for the gap in numbering. OK, mistakes get made and plans change (Aberford - Bramham's junction numbers reduced by one to fit the full Darrington - Dishforth scheme), but this strikes me as them considering the more major junctions on the all-purpose A1 as counting for the numbers.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #2655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Inverness is the example par excellence of why the edges of the country don't have motorway - less than 75,000 people and 100 miles away from Perth with very little inbetween. Certainly the A9 needs improvements, and it's getting them. However a motorway would just be overkill (that said, I've seen documents about the Highland Motorway, which would have been converting the Far North rail line to Thurso and Wick into a road - guessing single carriageway, but as it's new build, there's no real reason why it shouldn't be a Special Road limited to class I and II traffic only).
Some sparsely populated areas (such as the middle section of the United States) still have big highways because a lot of traffic passes through in order to travel between more heavily populated areas. This doesn't apply to Great Britain, which is off the western edge of the European landmass and has no transit traffic except for a very small amount travelling between Ireland (which is itself sparsely populated) and mainland Europe.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #2656
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M1 lights switched off from Luton to Milton Keynes

Motorway lighting is to be permanently removed from a section of the M1, the Highways Agency has announced. The 15-mile stretch, between junction 10 at Luton and junction 13 at Milton Keynes, will retain lighting at junctions and their approaches.

Work is currently under way to make this section a "managed motorway", with variable speed limits and the option to use the hard shoulder at busy times.

The agency said it was confident the move would not affect road user safety. "Since 2009 we've switched lighting off between the hours of midnight and 5am on 14 carefully-selected stretches of motorways and evidence so far indicates that switching off the lights hasn't had an impact on safety," said Highways Agency director Derek Turner.

"This is not about wishing to remove all lights from the motorway network.

'Save more lives'

"It's about carefully identifying the locations where, under the revised guidelines, we would no longer install lighting. The money saved could then be used for other measures on the strategic road network where it would have a more significant safety benefit and potentially save more lives.

"We anticipate achieving an annual reduction in carbon emissions on this M1 stretch of about 810 tonnes. Local communities will also benefit from reduced light pollution of the night sky."

Work will commence on the removal of the lighting columns on 17 August and carried out in phases until autumn 2012.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...herts-14487969
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Old August 18th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #2657
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London - Peterborough motorway route will be via Stansted.
A14 upgrade?
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Old August 18th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #2658
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Some sparsely populated areas (such as the middle section of the United States) still have big highways because a lot of traffic passes through in order to travel between more heavily populated areas. This doesn't apply to Great Britain, which is off the western edge of the European landmass and has no transit traffic except for a very small amount travelling between Ireland (which is itself sparsely populated) and mainland Europe.
This is partly true, in that much of the "empty" bit of the USA is in the middle of the country, while in the UK he emptier bits tend to be around the edges, especially the north and west and so doesn't need to be crossed.

However, let's not forget that in the USA and some other countries the threshhold for dualling and grade separation is much lower than in the UK. I think the lowest AADT on a US interstate is something ridiculously low like 900 (from memory). Most of course are not that low, but even so they still use a much lower threshhold. I believe the usual figure in South Africa is around 10 - 15 thousand. I'\m not sure what it is in the UK, but I believe it would be quite a lot higher.

Different priorities, land prices, construction costs, levels of NIMBYism etc probably account for it. For example in SA, while there may be objections to a specific route based on the fact it might destroy a rare habitat etc, there rarely seem to be objections on principle.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 06:03 AM   #2659
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A14 upgrade?
And on top of this M11 is a joke in it its current form.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 11:41 AM   #2660
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It's unlikely that the A14 upgrade (if and when that happens) will be suitable, or the M11 north of Stansted widened, but the thinking does seem to be that that route will become the London-Peterborough route, rather than the A1, which will be for Letchworth, Stevenage, etc in both directions.
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