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Old October 17th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #2761
Harry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
A few, but not that many, mainly old people
I tend to agree more with flierfy, to tell the truth. I think 130kph/80mph is far from the norm - especially during the last few years where a lot of drivers are watching their fuel economy more than they used to.

Try sitting in the inside lane at 70mph. Not easy. You will need to move in to the middle lane to overtake before long. Yes - some people drive consistently at 80mph or above (when traffic conditions allow, obviously) - but I would say they're in a minority.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 12:40 AM   #2762
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Then again, I'm from London, and Londoners are hardly the best of drivers, I've seen it impossible to go at 70 on the M25 sometimes, because the flow is faster
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Old October 18th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #2763
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The M1 through the Watford Gap is another road where traffic is heavy, but very much flowing and you either do 56 behind some lorry, or 85+ with little safe wriggle room in between.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 01:03 PM   #2764
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I think a lot of drivers are not that well informed about the extra fuel costs of driving faster, and if they were they might not do it as much. So I think maybe alongside raising the speed limit for those prepared to pay extra for fuel, there should be more information to help people make an informed decision.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #2765
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The biggest killer of fuel economy is driving that involves having to slow down and speed up, and worse - stop-start conditions. This can be worse than just cruising at 75-80 mph. Personally, I prefer to cruise along at a steady 65-70 mph which I find to be a good balance between speed and economy using the inside lane when I can. If I anticipate a need to overtake and if there's traffic approaching on the next lane, usually I'll allow the traffic to pass if I know I don't have to slow down too much and I can change lanes after without blocking faster traffic.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #2766
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Roundabouts in dual carriageways and the lack of motorways in some cities is a much worse problem for fuel economy than driving a few miles faster during free-flow conditions.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #2767
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Roundabouts in dual carriageways ... is a much worse problem for fuel economy ...
So you'd like to have signal controlled crossroads instead?
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Old October 18th, 2011, 08:54 PM   #2768
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No, you?
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Old October 18th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #2769
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Quote:
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The biggest killer of fuel economy is driving that involves having to slow down and speed up, and worse - stop-start conditions. This can be worse than just cruising at 75-80 mph. Personally, I prefer to cruise along at a steady 65-70 mph which I find to be a good balance between speed and economy using the inside lane when I can. If I anticipate a need to overtake and if there's traffic approaching on the next lane, usually I'll allow the traffic to pass if I know I don't have to slow down too much and I can change lanes after without blocking faster traffic.
If everyone drove like you, motorways and other major routes would flow so much more freely than they do.

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So you'd like to have signal controlled crossroads instead?
I think Chris was advocating more grade separation, not more crossroads.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 10:38 PM   #2770
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Quote:
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Roundabouts in dual carriageways and the lack of motorways in some cities is a much worse problem for fuel economy than driving a few miles faster during free-flow conditions.
Those roundabouts aren't as bad as they look. You have to do a driving tour of the UK one day
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Old October 19th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #2771
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Those roundabouts aren't as bad as they look. You have to do a driving tour of the UK one day
Not as bad as they look? Try driving through those many roundabouts on the A27 near Chichester where AADT is 40k+ and then tell me that they aren't as bad as they look.
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Old October 19th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #2772
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It depends on the road, on reasonably quiet dual carriageways they are fine but on very busy routes they just cause congestion and should be really be replaced with flyovers in time.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 05:27 PM   #2773
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It depends on the road, on reasonably quiet dual carriageways they are fine but on very busy routes they just cause congestion and should be really be replaced with flyovers in time.
The A1231 Wessington Way into Sunderland is a dual carriageway with a chain of roundabouts. The dual carriageway has a 70mph speed limit, but since the roundabouts are spaced as close as a quarter of a mile between each other and at best 1 mile the roundabouts cause a lot of accelerating from each roundabout and braking towards the next roundabout. This kills fuel economy, so it's better to accelerate up to a more moderate speed (say 50 mph) and ease off to minimise braking towards the next roundabout. However, at peak times, even reaching 50mph is a wish, as the roundabouts, especially the A19/A1231 causes long queues.

Unfortunately roundabouts are congestion causers if a) there's simply too much traffic on the same road, or b) if there's a dominant flow at a main roundabout that reduces the opportunity for traffic on other main roads to enter the roundabout. The typical UK solution is to stick a forest of lights up and hope for the best but this tends to be a "designer congestion" measure than anything else. Ideally grade separation is the best solution, but for obvious reasons its difficult to achieve if the road in question is constrained by exisiting development. There's no excuse in more open areas, yet the powers that be seem still like to build new routes with roundabouts and traffic lights when its blatantly obvious that grade separation is the answer. The road gets built, opened, then the new roundabouts/lights become famous on traffic reports for the chaos they cause.

Roundabouts are the lesser evil compared to traffic lights though. You know when you're approaching a roundabout that you have to slow down and be prepared to give way, but you know that when its quiet you'll have a decent chance of not having to come to a complete stop. With traffic lights, you always have to be prepared to stop if the lights turn red. I don't know if its just me but I always feel that the lights always turn to red as I'm approaching the junction at the point where I have to brake quite firmly, hardly at a time where I'm further back and can afford to ease off the pedal and let the car drift towards the junction and hopefully get a green as I near the stop-line. In the UK we do seem to have pathetically short green phases - frustrating when you're at the back of a long queue and see the lights at the front let out say 2-3 cars only.


Another good thing about roundabouts takes me back to the A1231. That stretch, when it is quiet, thanks to the 70mph speed limit, allows me to legally perform the occassional "Italian Tune-up" - accelerate hard from one roundabout to the next, through the rev range, up through the gears and brake hard for the next roundabout and repeat....does a good job of clearing any crap from the engine and keeping the brakes clean too! Its always good to do that once in a while if you adopt a smooth driving style for too long or do too much stop-start driving.

Last edited by sirfreelancealot; October 21st, 2011 at 05:44 PM.
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Old October 28th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #2774
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Tomorrow (October 29) it's exactly 25 years ago the M25 was finished and opened by Thatcher.

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Old October 28th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #2775
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Old October 29th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #2776
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Gan on Maggie lass! Best PM we've had since Churchill. Pity she didn't realise how much money the treasury could've made by charging people to park there.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #2777
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Wasn't she (they) talking about a dual six lane M25?
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Old October 29th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #2778
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Shame there were no cars going at 80mph in the fast lane in 1986 to mow her down.

Evil bitch.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #2779
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I remember the M25 being built very well and even as a kid, I was very excited the first time my parents drove on it, in my dad's Vauxhall Astra on the way to Kent from Luton (at the time, it terminated/began where it meets the A1 at Potters Bar). Although I generally prefer public transport (where applicable), I miss the road building days of the 80's and early 90's, which saw the M25 and M42 motorways get built and the M40 extended from Oxford to the West Midlands. Now new schemes are badly needed (they were a decade ago, when I still lived there). Widening existing motorways often doesn't really help and can make matters worse, by creating bottlenecks and increasing the amount of lane changing, which causes traffic in itself.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #2780
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I just watched a programme on the BBC about the M25
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