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Old June 20th, 2012, 02:07 PM   #2941
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I must admit that these long-term roadworks on the M25 has been relatively painless, unlike the widening process on the M1 at Luton, which went au pair with long delays.
British motorway roadworks are among the safest and clearest in lane guidance in Europe. German roadworks are a pain.
Also Italy and France seem to have good roadworks management.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #2942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Are there any photos of this gantry?
I haven't seen any of the one I think it is.

However here's a couple of the nearly, but not quite ones (though neither shows the whole thing:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2440226
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2866909

The actual winner is (IIRC) on the anti-clockwise gore of the M1 junction - two 2-lane slip roads, two 3-lane carriageways, plus hardshoulders and the bits inbetween. The J19 one (first image) is a 2-lane slip and two 4-lane carriageways and bumpf - misses out on the title only by a small amount.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #2943
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The longest free-span gantry in the Netherlands spans 60.5 meters. That's the equivalent of 17 lanes.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 12:46 AM   #2944
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Road UK you seem to know all roads in uk I do live in luton by the way......................
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:18 PM   #2945
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British highway geography question of the day:

Does someone trying to get from one segment of the M42 to the other, passing through here - https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...65832&t=m&z=14 - have to pay the toll?
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:41 PM   #2946
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No. Tolls are on M6 Toll only, and there are no toll plazas anywhere near the M42.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:50 PM   #2947
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That's what I figured, but I was looking at a Michelin road map yesterday that showed the segment in question as part of the M6Toll and used the toll-road symbol for the roadway itself.

Ta!
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:56 PM   #2948
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Yes, the M42 does go next to M6 toll for a few miles, functioning as a large interchange section, and northbound tolls start after the M42 is well and gone.

Cheers me old China....
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 12:31 PM   #2949
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The M6 Toll is such a waste. I don't know anyone who chooses to pay & use it. When I'm planning a route, it's as if I've wiped the route from my mental map - I never consider it. If I think the M6 through the West Midlands conurbation is going to be too congested, I will use an alternative route across from the M1 corridor to the M6 corridor, such as the A50.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:10 PM   #2950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry View Post
The M6 Toll is such a waste. I don't know anyone who chooses to pay & use it. When I'm planning a route, it's as if I've wiped the route from my mental map - I never consider it. If I think the M6 through the West Midlands conurbation is going to be too congested, I will use an alternative route across from the M1 corridor to the M6 corridor, such as the A50.
I really think they need to swap the M6 and the M6 toll. Reduce people running through the middle rather than around the edge which was the whole point of it!
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:17 PM   #2951
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That would be impossible. It would clog all the A and B routes up, and people would enter Birmingham, Wolverhampton and other areas through alternative routes instead. M6 Toll doesn't run through urban areas, it is purely intended for West Midlands transit traffic.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:18 PM   #2952
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It's simply too expensive. Some French Toll Roads are also suffering from underusage, which also tend to be the most expensive ones.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:41 PM   #2953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
It's simply too expensive. Some French Toll Roads are also suffering from underusage, which also tend to be the most expensive ones.
Probably hence the merger between ASF, Corfiroute and Vinci.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:44 PM   #2954
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Some French Toll Roads are also suffering from underusage, which also tend to be the most expensive ones.
They aren't suffering from underusage - quite the opposite - that's why the tolls are expensive, because the road isn't suffering as much if underused.

You have a lease on a road for 50 years, you realise that you are going to have to do some serious maintenance at least once. Your lower toll and more cars wasn't paying off the debt, needed more collectors and increased wear and tear. You up the price and traffic lowers, you aren't getting as much in each month, but not by a lot. However your maintenance schedule has changed from being two massively expensive reconstructions to be one as the gaps between them are larger and the second one drifts off the end of you lease. You won't make as big a loss on a 50 year investment.

M6Toll is now for businessmen on expenses. If the government bought the road off MEL early, and made it free, then we might see some diversion of traffic.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:48 PM   #2955
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M6Toll carries only 35,000 vehicles on an average workday in Q1 2012. 5 years ago that was 45,000 vehicles per day. It's not a lot for a six-lane motorway in a densely populated country.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:48 PM   #2956
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Politically, this causes a bit of a headache. Toll roads were seen (and maybe still are seen by some) as the most effective means to deliver capacity upgrades in future. But experience of the M6 Toll surely must have shown that the approach does not work where a viable alternative exists. People will pay only when they absolutely have to.

Separately, I also have to agree with poshbakerloo in that the current set up in the West Midlands/Staffordshire encourages traffic on to the more urban route - thus losing one of the key benefits of building a bypass route: freeing up space on the existing, urban route for local traffic.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:53 PM   #2957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
M6Toll carries only 35,000 vehicles on an average workday in Q1 2012. 5 years ago that was 45,000 vehicles per day. It's not a lot for a six-lane motorway in a densely populated country.
So 35.000 less vehicles on the normal M6. M6 Toll is created to relieve the M6. That is its purpose. It is mainly used in rush hours, otherwise there is no point paying tolls.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:53 PM   #2958
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M6Toll is now for businessmen on expenses. If the government bought the road off MEL early, and made it free, then we might see some diversion of traffic.
Agree with this. It is the road transport equivalent of a first class railway carriage: spacious, under-utilised and only for the affluent. If this road's 2012 usage patterns had been accurately predicted at the enquiry stage, public opinion would have been so strongly against that it would never have been built.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 02:19 PM   #2959
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It is also a road that can save you 45 minutes in rush hour periods. Madrid has a lot of toll roads parallel to motorways free of charge running in and out of the city, to relieve congestion. Both Madrid and Birmingham have done me a lot of favours, by providing me with these schemes.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 02:21 PM   #2960
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The Madrid Radiales carry very little traffic. R-2: 9,300 vehicles, R-3; 14,100 vehicles, R-4; 8,100 vehicles & R-5; 10,500 vehicles.
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