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Old October 31st, 2012, 12:36 AM   #3141
geogregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
I think you are thinking of the Travel to London reports?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/abou...ions/1482.aspx
It wasn't exactly the same format but numbers and conclusions were broadly similar.
Thanks, for the link anyway, there is a lot of interesting data.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 11:16 PM   #3142
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We missed it!

The Mon*day 2nd, 1959 issue of the Guardian offered this prophetic warning …

In an age of seri*ous con*tem*pla*tion of travel to the moon it seems sense*less that no British Gov*ern*ment has yet devised means of enabling traf*fic to move more freely on the ground at home.


1959: Ernest Marples (centre), then transport minister, at the opening of the M1 motorway. The first section of the M1, between junctions 5 (Watford) and 18 (Crick) was opened on 2 November, 1959. It was Britain's first motorway linking cities: the country's first stretch of motorway, part of the M6 Preston bypass, opened the previous year
Back then..


...now:






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Old November 4th, 2012, 12:44 AM   #3143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Even in London only about 40-45% journeys is done on public transport. Pretty much the percentage same by car and about 15% cycling and walking.
The point of rapid-transit systems isn't to "alleviate car traffic." Car traffic will always expand to the limits of the car infrastructure. The point of rapid-transit systems is to give people a way to get around rapidly. -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Does this suggest that transit advocates are elitists at heart, who never expect transit to replace driving for the majority of journeys?

Last edited by GCarty; November 4th, 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #3144
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20 mph door-to-door is hardly "rapid".
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Old November 4th, 2012, 01:01 AM   #3145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
20 mph door-to-door is hardly "rapid".
Where does that 20 mph figure come from?
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Old November 4th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #3146
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Has there been any talk at all of a new motorway/primary dual carriage way linking Stansted and Luton airports? It could run between the A12 and the A120. Eventually it could be expanded to Oxford. Wouldn't this take lots of traffic off the M25?
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Old November 4th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #3147
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New motorway? In Britain??? Are you crazy??
All the green folks and public transport lovers plus all the classic NIMBYs would eat alive anyone who tried to do that
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Old November 4th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #3148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
Has there been any talk at all of a new motorway/primary dual carriage way linking Stansted and Luton airports? It could run between the A12 and the A120.
Where do you see an A12 between Luton and Stansted?
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Old November 4th, 2012, 04:21 PM   #3149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
Has there been any talk at all of a new motorway/primary dual carriage way linking Stansted and Luton airports?
Not for 20 years, after the Wing bypass was killed and with it the 'East Coast Ports route'. Bypasses for Bishops Stortford, Great Dumlow, Coggershall, Braintree and Leighton Buzzard were built, and I think the decent bit of the A505 between Luton and Hitchin is of the same vintage.

Part of the problem with a coherent E-W route is that different counties upgraded routes between towns at different latitudes - Essex going for the A120 corridor, Herts the A41-A414 corridor, Beds the A507 and A421 (though they've always had plans for the A505, but they haven't happened yet) corridors, Bucks nothing.
Quote:
Eventually it could be expanded to Oxford.
Or Swindon, which is where the 'East Coast Ports' route was to start, although Oxford was the slightly less epic aim. There was also an idea in 1934 to have the A505 as part of a Swindon - East Anglia route.
Quote:
Wouldn't this take lots of traffic off the M25?
Yes and no.

No as local traffic along that arc wouldn't use the M25 anyway and the A14/A421 routes deal with a lot of the long distance traffic that might use the M25 instead. (but that's no reason to add another route).

Yes for obvious reasons of another alternative to taking the M25. Especially if it reaches Swindon.

Oxford - Stansted is going to be quicker via Enfield than via Luton - but with an 'East Coast Ports' DC going via Aylesbury and linking with the A41, then via Aylesbury is going to trump via Denham for Oxford - Enfield, so it would relieve the M25 a bit.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #3150
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Aaaah the A505 between Hitchin and Luton brings back memories. I have lived in a tiny village right beside it called Great Offley for years...
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Old November 4th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #3151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
....
Part of the problem with a coherent E-W route is that different counties upgraded routes between towns at different latitudes - Essex going for the A120 corridor, Herts the A41-A414 corridor, Beds the A507 and A421 (though they've always had plans for the A505, but they haven't happened yet) corridors, Bucks nothing....
I'm surprised that sort of decision isn't made at a national level (with local input, of course).
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Old November 4th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #3152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm surprised that sort of decision isn't made at a national level (with local input, of course).
It actually is. All road schemes in England need to be approved and funded by Westminster. The incoherence of the widening schemes are a clear sign that a strategic link as you envisage is simply not intended by the government.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #3153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
It actually is. All road schemes in England need to be approved and funded by Westminster. The incoherence of the widening schemes are a clear sign that a strategic link as you envisage is simply not intended by the government.
And changing whims of Government at National, County and Regional levels as to where it should go.

And changing demands (which somewhat drive those whims) - the growth of MK made the A421 route much more important, and also the focus of traffic coming from Aylesbury on the A418 changed to be much more MK focussed. Stansted made the A120 route more important, whereas before - like when Herts began to upgrade the A414 - it wasn't.

And simply geography - the A414 links lots of places in Herts, whereas a new build route between A505 and A120 wouldn't.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #3154
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Would like to see some rainy, foggy and cloudy pictures captured on couple of main English roads today? Yes? Ok, no problems. Here you are:

A map:


Roads:

(outwards) Portsmouth A3(M) + A3 + M25 clockwise from J10 to J21 + M1 J6 to J10 Luton Airport

(backwards) Luton Airport M1 J10 to J1 + A 406 (North Circular Road) to M4 J1

Leaving Portsmouth.
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IMGP4250 by 71piotr, on Flickr
M27.
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IMGP4253 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4256 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4257 by 71piotr, on Flickr

A3(M). There still exist old A3, which has been rebuilt to become bus, pedestrian and bike friendly.
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IMGP4258 by 71piotr, on Flickr

So, you can see the quality of the report now. Do you still want to see the rest?
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Old November 25th, 2012, 12:16 PM   #3155
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Nobody says no...

A3(M) as the most Ax(M) motorways has 2 lanes in each directions. There are exception to this rule, for instance A1(M), which benefits with 4 lanes per carriageway on one, known to me, stretch.
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IMGP4261 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Regular A3 starts here.
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IMGP4264 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4265 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4269 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Tractors! Although speed limit the same as on motorways.
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IMGP4271 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Dual carriageways' typical feature - short or lacking merging lane.
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IMGP4277 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4279 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Interesting sign or actually set of signs. In most continental countries something less complex is in use, instead.
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IMGP4281 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4282 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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There is no need to drive through very congested Hinhead since the last summer, any more. Old A3 has been renumbered and demolished on its Northern part.
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IMGP4286 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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Tunnels' engineering masterpiece. One of the best lit and signed tunnel I have driven through.
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Last edited by piotr71; November 25th, 2012 at 02:45 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #3156
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IMGP4299 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Guildford.
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IMGP4303 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4305 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Congestion could be a nightmare here in weekdays.
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Nearly M25.
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IMGP4319 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4321 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4322 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Right lane leads to a merging taper, which I am not fan of. However, as long as a driver in front of you can use it properly, I can accept it. Sadly, it does not happen to often.
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IMGP4323 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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If there is no congestion, rightmost lane should be closed as it is on some Dutch motorways, so drivers could keep to the left.
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IMGP4334 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4340 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Switch that rear bloody fog light off, you moron!
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Poorly removed older road markings.
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IMGP4355 by 71piotr, on Flickr

M1
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IMGP4360 by 71piotr, on Flickr

As you can see the broken down vehicle does not use warning triangle. You must not use one on M roads.
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IMGP4361 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4362 by 71piotr, on Flickr

The matrix says: smoke slow down. There is an industrial area nearby and one of businesses got fire some time ago. A week ago, I think.
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IMGP4369 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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Luton.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #3157
sotonsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
A3(M). There still exist old A3, which has been rebuilt to become bus, pedestrian and bike friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Regular A3 starts here.
err, you mean the A3(M) ends here. After all, the regular A3 is still on it's old route (though I'm not sure there has been a rebuilding of the old route - though certainly some re-allocation of roadspace, etc after turning from an intercity trunk road that went through some towns to a main route in a town that isn't needed for through traffic) and your first picture is also the A3.
Quote:
If there is no congestion, rightmost lane should be closed as it is on some Dutch motorways, so drivers could keep to the left.
What purpose would that serve? (other than causing/exacerbating congestion and increasing danger by trying to get people to keep on changing lanes, of course)

And aren't those left-most lanes in the Netherlands shoulders that undergo hard-shoulder running at busy times, rather than standard running lanes that are closed in quiet times?
Quote:
As you can see the broken down vehicle does not use warning triangle. You must not use one on M roads.
While not illegal ('MUST NOT'), the word used in the Highway Code is 'never' - and quite right too that you are strongly dissuaded from doing such a dangerous thing as setting up a warning triangle on motorways (should really be all fast roads).
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Old November 25th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #3158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
err, you mean the A3(M) ends here.
Off course, you are right. I should say A3(M) joins old A3 here.

Quote:
After all, the regular A3 is still on it's old route (though I'm not sure there has been a rebuilding of the old route - though certainly some re-allocation of roadspace, etc after turning from an intercity trunk road that went through some towns to a main route in a town that isn't needed for through traffic) and your first picture is also the A3.
Probably correct word would be 'reshaped' instead of 'rebuilt'. Yes, they reshaped A3 somewhere in 2008-2009. New bus lanes and cycle ways were added and the shape of a junction on the map below has been significantly changed.



Quote:
What purpose would that serve? (other than causing/exacerbating congestion and increasing danger by trying to get people to keep on changing lanes, of course)
Causing congestion? How is it possible if there is traffic, which easily could fit on two lanes instead of 4? Actually, 50% of drivers gather on lane 4 congesting it for no obvious reason. Temporary closing (off peak hours) lane 4 would probably encourage them to obey basic traffic rule - keep to the left.

Quote:
While not illegal ('MUST NOT'), the word used in the Highway Code is 'never' - and quite right too that you are strongly dissuaded from doing such a dangerous thing as setting up a warning triangle on motorways (should really be all fast roads).
What about other road users, who are put in danger by a driver not using warning device behind his/her car? Why then, on all dual carriageways, which have the same speed limit, warning triangle should be used?
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Old November 25th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #3159
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M1 Luton-London

Leaving the airport.
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IMGP4397 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4407 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Even if the merging lane is pretty long as seen on the picture, drivers are trying to merge on its beginning, forcing actual motorway users to slow down, brake or change lane.
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IMGP4411 by 71piotr, on Flickr

It's really easy to build the speed to equalize it with the speed of vehicles on lane 1. Isn't it?
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IMGP4413 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Unfortunately we can't see it, but this stretch of M1, since it rebuilt couple of years ago, presents highest possible motorway standard in Europe. It's just about perfect. However, this gantry might be mistakenly read as 3 lanes go straight, one pulls off. The next one clarify the situation.
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IMGP4417 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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Concrete part.
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Last edited by piotr71; November 25th, 2012 at 09:42 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #3160
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M1 Luton-London

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IMGP4450 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4452 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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IMGP4518 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Have you noticed how well M1 is lit. I do not know how far up North lamp posts are, however relying on my experience and memory, I am pretty certain M1 is lit up to Northampton.
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