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Old November 27th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #3501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
They are replacing the cheese-wire barriers that were in-vogue in the early naughties due to limbs and heads coming off motorcyclists.

But the standard barriers, no - though they are making the ends have a design so that it doesn't ramp you up over the barrier or impale you.

Concrete barriers in the middle are the new thing for motorways.
Yeah, never really understood why they started putting in those "cheese-wire barriers" - lower cost perhaps? Because they're quite clearly not safe!

Concrete barriers are perhaps suitable for some motorways, but I think generally the UK will stick to the traditional/standard barrier.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #3502
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Yeah, never really understood why they started putting in those "cheese-wire barriers" - lower cost perhaps? Because they're quite clearly not safe!

Concrete barriers are perhaps suitable for some motorways, but I think generally the UK will stick to the traditional/standard barrier.
The "cheesewire" barriers were invented as they actually reduced crossover accidents as the wire doesn't break but absorbs the crash energy without throwing the vehicle back into the carriageway. The concrete barrier will have the effect of bouncing vehicles back into the path traffic, which is why it wasn't adopted for years. The section on the M25 that got hit ended up with a large hole for several weeks with a very large piece of concrete in the opposing carriageway, however having recently avoided a streetlight lying in the outside lane of the M1 (no warnings given) this apparently isn't a problem.

Part of the reason for the present popularity of concrete barriers is pure work creation - it is a project which can be started quickly to create employment.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #3503
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They're common in Sweden...
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #3504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoskins View Post
They're designed to crumple and absorb energy. Like modern cars.
Yes, in general they are, but they are unable to prevent crossovers from larger vehicles unlike the concrete barriers.
Also, the British variety of steel barriers look much flimsier than for example barriers on new roads in Poland where they often have 2 or even 4 metal bars side by side instead of a one metal profile like in the UK.
US is also adopting concrete barriers on busier stretches.
I think Irish are also heavily investing in concrete barriers after research showing they are safer,

Quote:
I don't think they are (generally) replacing them..?
I've read somewhere that while renovating motorways the Highway Agency has policy of replacing old steel barriers with concrete ones.

Quote:
The concrete barrier will have the effect of bouncing vehicles back into the path traffic, which is why it wasn't adopted for years.
It is still safer than total crossover to the opposite carriageway. Besides vehicles usually hit barriers at quite shallow angle not 90 degrees, they normally slide along the concrete barrier.
The problem is that they are more expensive to install even if they are cheaper to maintain in the long run. I think they started going for concrete as a way on saving on the long term maintenance. That way there will be also less disruption in the future. Steal barriers have to be mended even after minor collison

Last edited by geogregor; December 1st, 2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 06:27 PM   #3505
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A 308(M)

Probably the shortest motorway in the UK and possibly in the world.

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Old December 3rd, 2013, 11:40 PM   #3506
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Plans to toll the A14 upgrade between Cambridge and Huntingdon appear to be scrapped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25197921
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Old December 4th, 2013, 12:21 AM   #3507
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Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Probably the shortest motorway in the UK and possibly in the world.

Utterly pointlest, why do you bother putting up the sign...

The A823(m) is 1.0 mile long..
The M898 a staggering 0.5 miles

The A38 in the Netherlands (not officialy signed) is 1548 meters (1 mile)
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:18 AM   #3508
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Plans to toll the A14 upgrade between Cambridge and Huntingdon appear to be scrapped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25197921
That is good news.

Out of curiosity will the improvements / upgrade rid the A14 of its only 2 roundabouts? It looks like the new route will do just that. It should eventually be upgraded to motorway standard IMO.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 02:13 AM   #3509
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
That is good news.
Indeed
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Out of curiosity will the improvements / upgrade rid the A14 of its only 2 roundabouts? It looks like the new route will do just that.
You forgot the 2 roundabouts at Catthorpe (J0), which will be removed as part of another scheme and the 2 in Felixstowe (J60 and J62). However, yes they are being bypassed.
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It should eventually be upgraded to motorway standard IMO.
There's no such thing as 'motorway standard'. It needs to have special road status applied to it before it opens, or it will never happen. And adding hard shoulders needs to be part of the initial design, as the cost of adding them at a later state won't pass any form of cost-benefit analysis.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:12 AM   #3510
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
IndeedYou forgot the 2 roundabouts at Catthorpe (J0), which will be removed as part of another scheme and the 2 in Felixstowe (J60 and J62). However, yes they are being bypassed.There's no such thing as 'motorway standard'. It needs to have special road status applied to it before it opens, or it will never happen. And adding hard shoulders needs to be part of the initial design, as the cost of adding them at a later state won't pass any form of cost-benefit analysis.
Thanks for the info . I'm just glad it's not going to be a toll road. You guys already pay road tax and it's a very important trunk road to be tolling.

On another note any plans to upgrade the link with the M1/M6? That roundabout was a major source of traffic when I last used the road.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #3511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
On another note any plans to upgrade the link with the M1/M6?
Yes

Starting some time before March.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #3512
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Yes

Starting some time before March.
Good news again. Looking at that, I can't believe it took 13 years from the first feasibility study to final approval. I'm sure it will be expensive given that a brand new interchange will have to be built around/over the existing one, to include 2 major motorways and 1 major trunk road.

Is there no way EU money could have gone towards funding this since that is a very crucial E-route? It's actually one E route that might benefit from being signed as an E route (E30 and E24 too since it is used by so much continental traffic.




I believe E24 is the only E-route that starts and ends within the UK (Birmingham to Ipswich).
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Old December 4th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #3513
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Good news again. Looking at that, I can't believe it took 13 years from the first feasibility study to final approval. I'm sure it will be expensive given that a brand new interchange will have to be built around/over the existing one, to include 2 major motorways and 1 major trunk road.
The big issue was that halfway through those 13 years, Alistar Darling took over at the DfT. Then a few years later, there was a recession.
Quote:
Is there no way EU money could have gone towards funding this since that is a very crucial E-route?
No - E Roads have nothing to do with the EU. However the EU will give money as the roads involved are on the TEN-T network, and Catthorpe is certainly on the core network (which has recently changed and I can't remember if the A14 remains on it).

However, TEN-T funding is much less if the route is already decent enough (which the A14 is considered to be, as a 2x2 expressway) and if the project is in a net contributor state (which the UK most certainly is). As such it's somewhere around the 5-10% mark. Not to be sniffed at, but completely on a different scale to the 85% funding that Romania can obtain for some motorway projects.
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I believe E24 is the only E-route that starts and ends within the UK (Birmingham to Ipswich).
E13 Doncaster - Leicester - London and E32 Colchester - Harwich.

Given continentals typically use destinations, we've gone with that, rather than go to additional difficulties to sign a numbering system that they mostly don't use. The A14 does this more-European choice (ie long distance) of destinations the best and most consistently. I believe that Harwich is the 2nd furthest-away signed place in the country (London from Taunton being top), with Felixstowe 3rd.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #3514
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Posting an E-route in England?!
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Old December 5th, 2013, 03:07 AM   #3515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
The big issue was that halfway through those 13 years, Alistar Darling took over at the DfT. Then a few years later, there was a recession.No - E Roads have nothing to do with the EU. However the EU will give money as the roads involved are on the TEN-T network, and Catthorpe is certainly on the core network (which has recently changed and I can't remember if the A14 remains on it).

However, TEN-T funding is much less if the route is already decent enough (which the A14 is considered to be, as a 2x2 expressway) and if the project is in a net contributor state (which the UK most certainly is). As such it's somewhere around the 5-10% mark. Not to be sniffed at, but completely on a different scale to the 85% funding that Romania can obtain for some motorway projects.E13 Doncaster - Leicester - London and E32 Colchester - Harwich.

Given continentals typically use destinations, we've gone with that, rather than go to additional difficulties to sign a numbering system that they mostly don't use. The A14 does this more-European choice (ie long distance) of destinations the best and most consistently. I believe that Harwich is the 2nd furthest-away signed place in the country (London from Taunton being top), with Felixstowe 3rd.
Thanks, I didn't know that other UK only E routes existed.

I am actually in favor of signing them as many of them cover multiple motorways and major trunk routes. The British stretch of E05 for example crosses several motorways on its route from Glasgow to Southampton. This would be a route used by transcontinental traffic so having a consistent number alongside the British M number designation may help foreign and British motorists alike. I would basically sign any E route in the UK that ends at a major port to continental Europe. It might save a few drivers having to rely on GPS.

Anyway I'm glad the A14 is getting its much needed upgrade. I hope that a hard shoulder is added to any new sections.

Are there any images showing what the new A14/M1/M6 interchange will look like upon completion? I also wonder if you'll be able to get on the M1 north from the M6 too as a result?
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Old December 5th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #3516
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The A14, Britains single main logistics route to the whole world nowadays, has needed an upgrade for 20 years. It has been beyond a complete joke since 2000 with awful congestion overwhelming a substandard dual carriageway that really now needs to be a 3 lane motorway with hard shoulder to cope with the continual traffic, particularly of the HGV type ...at least west of Cambridge it does.

It is a Ten T Core route from the M1/M6 junction to Felixstowe but I would not be a bit surprised to hear that the Tories never applied for any EU funding for it when the Ten-T plans for the next 7 years were drawn up by nations EU wide in H1 2013.

As it is a core route Dublin - Berlin (ish) maybe Ireland applied for the Ten T funding for it.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 02:10 AM   #3517
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The A14, Britains single main logistics route to the whole world nowadays
There's other container ports than Felixstowe, and more to Britain than the Midlands and North.

And even if that were true, there's this thing called a railway...
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has needed an upgrade for 20 years.
The M1-A1 link is only just over 20 years old (built with the assistance of EU money), opening in the early 90s.
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It has been beyond a complete joke since 2000 with awful congestion overwhelming a substandard dual carriageway that really now needs to be a 3 lane motorway with hard shoulder to cope with the continual traffic, particularly of the HGV type ...at least west of Cambridge it does.
Much of that is the routing of N-S and E-W long distance, plus Cambridge commuter traffic on the A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon. Cambridge's growth isn't a joke. Rerouting long distance traffic onto the M11, not the A1 is also not a joke (putting N-S long-distance traffic on the road). Building the M1-A1 link to Huntingdon (putting E-W long-distance traffic on the road) is a bit of a botch, but hardly a joke - money was tight in the early 90s recession, and even with EU money everything had to be a cheap as possible.

What is a joke is how Prescott kicked it into long grass by forcing a multi-modal study (see also: all other major road schemes in preparation in 1997). And then, despite CHUMMS dealing with the ideological opposition to the scheme by making the case for road upgrades and the Government spending like money grew on trees, the scheme was basically scrapped by Darling (see also: everything else Darling had the authority to scrap as Transport Minister).
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It is a Ten T Core route from the M1/M6 junction to Felixstowe
It is on this map, last updated in January, but I couldn't remember re: the (hard to find) new interactive map with entirely different priority corridors (what I meant by core). It is, but I wasn't sure.
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but I would not be a bit surprised to hear that the Tories never applied for any EU funding for it when the Ten-T plans for the next 7 years were drawn up by nations EU wide in H1 2013.
Why wouldn't the Tories apply for EU funding for it? The Tories, especially the EU-skeptic ones, would be very for getting as much of our money back off the EU as the EU would let us (and more in the case of EU-skeptics).

And lo and behold, there's tons of entries for 2012, and rather fewer for before 2010 (though there were fewer transport schemes in general back then, as Darling's woeful blocking of schemes at the DfT still was being overcome, despite Adonis' good efforts).

As I pointed out, there's a huge difference between the 85% funding on core routes in Romania and the 5-10% funding on core routes in the UK. Romanian national government foolish to not spend their share and get a motorway network for peanuts. UK government need to have a decent case as instead of spending a couple of hundred million euros and getting €3bn's worth of road, the UK spends a billion euros and gets €1.1bn's worth of road. In Romania, getting the EU money is the difference between stuff actually happening, and stuff not happening. In the UK, it's unlikely to be the case, though getting the money is worth it.
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As it is a core route Dublin - Berlin (ish) maybe Ireland applied for the Ten T funding for it.
Not Berlin, on either the old or new. Ireland can't apply for TEN-T funding for it, even if the EU were offering 100% funding (which they aren't), and the UK therefore didn't have to agree to pay the shortfall.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #3518
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M25, Sunrise.

Some say, the best thing to do in the morning is drinking latte in an Italian cafe in Notting Hill and be served by a Polish long legged, always smiled waitres. It's nice indeed. I know that cause I experienced that.

Others say, it's better to have a blow job job done just after waking up. It's also nice, actually even nicer than the previous one. I know that too. Not only from the books.

However, not many mention driving on motorway at six in the mornig, when the sun rises. I'd dare to say...you better experience it for yorself

image hosted on flickr

DSC02524 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02521 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02534 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02539 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02541 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02544 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02546 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02550 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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DSC02552 by 71piotr, on Flickr

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Old December 6th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #3519
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The funding argument is a bit of a misnomer, if the A14 belonged to a marginal political constituancy the money would be found. The British government can find £14bn for Crossrail as it was heavily campaigned for by the financial sector.

The A14 should be a priority - 18 mile queues every morning, so regular they don't warrant a mention on regular traffic reports. The toll idea comes because the alternatives are so poor, unlike the M6, this has been suggested and rejected several times. The rail connection is poor although being improved, but to be honest the main improvement in traffic flow came from the recession. As for the ports, if you're going to Thamesport you WILL use the A14 if you come from anywhere in the midlands or north. This is a main route to Kent and Essex but I don't expect to see much improvement before I retire (and like the East Coast motorway that's a long way off !).
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Old December 6th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #3520
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@ Piotr, amazing photos of the 25. Amazing how a good photographer can even make a concrete highway usually associated with ugliness look beautiful.
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