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Old January 21st, 2014, 02:28 PM   #3581
Fatfield
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Britains first motorway pub opened today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25826637

http://news.sky.com/story/1198269/mo...ite-opposition
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Old January 21st, 2014, 10:28 PM   #3582
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Bristol
image hosted on flickr

01_2014_50 by Highways Agency, on Flickr

Is "hardshoulder" correctly spelled? I'd think it would be "hard shoulder" but perhaps they have text limitations on that VMS.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 11:24 PM   #3583
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two words wouldn't fit on one line (no room for the space).
Code:
Congestion
 Use hard
 shoulder
would work, but I think the other one, keeping the two word object of the sentence on one line, works a tiny bit better.

----

RE: The Hope and Champion (or, as I like to call it, Becky Spoons)

there's been alcohol on sale at MSAs for some time - the Harvester at Donington Park, various M&S Simply Foods/Waitrose shops, etc.

Not to mention the myriad pubs and inns that have traditionally been rest stops on the road. I'm pretty sure that the Blue Boar, which got the operating licence (as the venue in that area on the road the M1 bypassed) for Watford Gap, the first MSA, started off life as a public house.

The location itself is the 'not upper middle class' part of Beaconsfield, and serves locals with fast food and Starbucks. Until they opened a Starbucks on campus, students at Amersham College drove there to get coffee in half-hourly breaks. While there are ample eateries and drinking venues in the nearby Old Town, having a downmarket-but-decent place in Becky Spoons provides an alternative to the more upmarket gastropubs around.

Beaconsfield services is relatively rare, being not far from a sizable town and being popular with the locals (and while you might drive there, Chilterns culture is that you drive/are driven to the pub unless it is on your doorstep anyway - hence how all the little village pubs can just about stay open - you either have a desi, or you have a spouse take 4 of you and pick you up). The locals don't have a problem with (and actually quite want) a pub there - it's just people who fail to understand that pubs are for more than drinking, there are such things as passengers, and MSAs are for more than long distance traffic who have gone into a priggish outrage over it (which is helping promote the pub no end!).

I gather that, sadly, the typical Wetherspoons alcohol deals will not apply to The Hope and Champion, but they will be offering extra offers on food, such as free hot drink with breakfast.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:32 PM   #3584
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The hype about the "motorway pub" is a bit exaggerated. It's not directly on a motorway, but an offline service area with what looks like a small mall, so not your typical online MSA. It serves more people than just drivers on the motorway. If this pub would've been in any other mall nobody would've said anything about it.

http://goo.gl/maps/PMIKP
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 08:51 PM   #3585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
@ Piotr,

Good shots....I took this 11 years ago of the same stretch of road (a bit further south, close to the M48 exit):


Compared to yours:


The gantries are totally different, as are the lines.
Just going back to this, that old photo isn't of the M5, it's the Avonmouth spur at junction 18A, specifically here: http://goo.gl/maps/ayxnp

Which hasn't actually changed much at all!
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 01:15 AM   #3586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The hype about the "motorway pub" is a bit exaggerated. It's not directly on a motorway, but an offline service area with what looks like a small mall, so not your typical online MSA. It serves more people than just drivers on the motorway. If this pub would've been in any other mall nobody would've said anything about it.
Quite a lot of British service areas are like that, but I agree, there are plenty of pubs along roads anyway.

And I suppose that 'hard shoulder' is more standard, but I wouldn't say that 'hardshoulder' in English is incorrect as such it's just not convention, it is done in some cases, like 'headmaster' or 'ironworks'.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 01:31 AM   #3587
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Hard shoulder is a strange British thing anyway, better to just say shoulder!
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 02:13 AM   #3588
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This road has a shoulder - I think the use of 'hard' is a useful distinction...
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 02:14 AM   #3589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is "hardshoulder" correctly spelled? I'd think it would be "hard shoulder" but perhaps they have text limitations on that VMS.
I'd spell it "hard shoulder." "Hardshoulder" looks wrong to me (and my spell-check doesn't like it either).
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 03:46 PM   #3590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Hard shoulder is a strange British thing anyway, better to just say shoulder!
Not if you want to distinguish them from soft shoulders.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 03:59 PM   #3591
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Well, what is a hard shoulder (because we don't say it in the U.S. either, so far as I've heard)? Same material as the road whereas a soft shoulder would be, well, something softer...?

EDIT: Okay, that was a silly question. But how many roads have a hard and a soft shoulder as opposed to just one shoulder? "Congestion - use shoulder" might be sufficient. And also, I thought the British said "verge" or something.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:27 PM   #3592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Well, what is a hard shoulder (because we don't say it in the U.S. either, so far as I've heard)? Same material as the road whereas a soft shoulder would be, well, something softer...?

EDIT: Okay, that was a silly question. But how many roads have a hard and a soft shoulder as opposed to just one shoulder? "Congestion - use shoulder" might be sufficient. And also, I thought the British said "verge" or something.
In contrast to strips and verges a shoulder is wider than two-track vehicles. The adjective hard on the other hand defines a strip or a shoulder to be solid enough for vehicle to drive on it.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 12:43 AM   #3593
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In the UK, if it's a hard shoulder, it's usually wide enough for a vehicle to use. Some other countries may also call this a 'breakdown lane' or just shoulder. These are usually found on motorways and occasionally on some high quality expressway-like dual carriageways

If the shoulder is narrow, say 1-2 metres (3-6ft) then it will be called a hard strip, which is typical on dual carriageways, even on many high quality dual expressway-like dual carriageways. They are also used on better engineered single carriageway roads.

If there is no hard shoulder or strip then the edge is just called a 'verge' usually grass or sometimes a gravel edge.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #3594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirfreelancealot View Post
If there is no hard shoulder or strip then the edge is just called a 'verge' usually grass or sometimes a gravel edge.
Roads have verges regardless of hard shoulders or hard strips.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #3595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirfreelancealot View Post
In the UK, if it's a hard shoulder, it's usually wide enough for a vehicle to use. Some other countries may also call this a 'breakdown lane' or just shoulder. These are usually found on motorways and occasionally on some high quality expressway-like dual carriageways

If the shoulder is narrow, say 1-2 metres (3-6ft) then it will be called a hard strip, which is typical on dual carriageways, even on many high quality dual expressway-like dual carriageways. They are also used on better engineered single carriageway roads.

If there is no hard shoulder or strip then the edge is just called a 'verge' usually grass or sometimes a gravel edge.
Ah.

You learn something every day. The trick is not to forget it the next.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 07:13 PM   #3596
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I've never heard the term 'hard strip' before, I've never had a word for the things on the side of dual carriageways, I suppose it isn't something that comes up in conversation amongst the lay population much.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 10:03 PM   #3597
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There are 2 types of terms used in the UK, regarding the above posts:

a) hard shoulder

Used in such phrases: 'no hard shoulder for ... yards', 'intermittent hard shoulder for ...miles', 'congestion - use hard shoulder', 'hard shoulder for emergency use only'.

b) Soft verge

Used, obviously in case of soft verge together with exclamation road sign. Can't remind any additional information or warning attached to it.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #3598
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I would agree with that.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 12:47 AM   #3599
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That's one thing you see in the US, "Soft Shoulder next XX Miles", it seems they consider the hard type as default.

Here they probably wouldn't sign any of those things regarding shoulder, just leave it for you to be surprised.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 04:28 AM   #3600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
That's one thing you see in the US, "Soft Shoulder next XX Miles", it seems they consider the hard type as default.
I think those signs are meant to warn you it's soft.
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