daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:54 AM   #3661
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

On the M25 there used to be, until recently, big signs on entry to the VSL sections telling you specifically not to weave about lanes observe proper lane discipline. AVOID CHANGING LANES was on the signs to increase capacity by decreasing the amount of near-misses.

I'd argue strongly that lane 'hogging' is proper lane discipline on a 'smart' motorway.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 13th, 2014, 04:01 AM   #3662
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,247
Likes (Received): 781

We've had that conversation before. Personally, I agree with you (provided - this is important - people leave the lane closest to the center open for passing/overtaking and distribute themselves according to speed across the others), but there are some purists who insist that if there are four lanes in a given direction at a given point, one and only one is to be driven on, a second is for overtaking and the remaining two are to sit there looking pretty. :-)
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 10:26 AM   #3663
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
On the M25 there used to be, until recently, big signs on entry to the VSL sections telling you specifically not to weave about lanes observe proper lane discipline. AVOID CHANGING LANES was on the signs to increase capacity by decreasing the amount of near-misses.

I'd argue strongly that lane 'hogging' is proper lane discipline on a 'smart' motorway.
Yes, this "avoid changing lane" thing on the M25 is the most stupidest think they could have done. Traffic is now allowed to stay in lane doing whatever speed they want, potentially holding up traffic. Keep overtaking lanes clear, and it creates a better flow. Everyone should know that.
__________________

piotr71 liked this post
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 01:31 PM   #3664
Ladiesman020
Registered User
 
Ladiesman020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East London
Posts: 208
Likes (Received): 41

Motorway box would never of worked, but it would of been nice if the M4 went out to Romford
Ladiesman020 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #3665
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Edit. Situation changed, post removed...

Last edited by Road_UK; May 13th, 2014 at 01:50 PM.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 01:55 PM   #3666
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladiesman020 View Post
Motorway box would never of worked, but it would of been nice if the M4 went out to Romford
Of you used cockney or of?
__________________
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 02:22 PM   #3667
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

His original post was an anti-
England rant full of swearwords as part of a Yes to Scotland campaign. I told him to take his crap somewhere else, and he did. I couldn't believe it, someone actually listened to me...
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #3668
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,247
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Yes, this "avoid changing lane" thing on the M25 is the most stupidest think they could have done. Traffic is now allowed to stay in lane doing whatever speed they want, potentially holding up traffic. Keep overtaking lanes clear, and it creates a better flow. Everyone should know that.
There's a difference between "distributing themselves according to speed" across the available lanes and "doing whatever speed they want."

__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:29 PM   #3669
Ladiesman020
Registered User
 
Ladiesman020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East London
Posts: 208
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
His original post was an anti-
England rant full of swearwords as part of a Yes to Scotland campaign. I told him to take his crap somewhere else, and he did. I couldn't believe it, someone actually listened to me...
I actually posted it in the wrong thread, so I changed it all to some other crap about the M4. Which by the way was something I've always thought would of been good. If the M4 went east to just past Romford
Ladiesman020 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:35 PM   #3670
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Why not all the way to the M25? It's only a few miles... A new motorway along the Thames with junctions for Westminster, Trafalgar Square, Picadilly Circus....
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:38 PM   #3671
Ladiesman020
Registered User
 
Ladiesman020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East London
Posts: 208
Likes (Received): 41

That's kinda what I already ment as Romford is not far from the M25
Ladiesman020 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #3672
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
There's a difference between "distributing themselves according to speed" across the available lanes and "doing whatever speed they want."
Plus the "CONGESTION STAY IN LANE" on signs (now on Variable Message Signs, rather than "AVOID CHANGING LANES" on fixed ones at entry points to the VSL sections) is proven to reduce congestion, and only scuppered by selfish lane discipline Vogons that refuse to obey it.
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #3673
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Jesus. The only way to reduce congestion is to apply proper lane discipline on UK's motorways. Not to confuse the driver with more unreliable crap coming from matrix signs.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #3674
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladiesman020 View Post
That's kinda what I already ment as Romford is not far from the M25
I will not happen. It would mean the motorway would have to go right through the heart of London. Apart from having to create new infrastructure, they would never allow it as they're trying to keep the pollution down.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 07:21 PM   #3675
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The only way to reduce congestion is to apply proper lane discipline on UK's motorways.
Science says otherwise, unless by proper lane discipline, you mean the scientifically-proven 'avoid changing lanes'. But I think you mean the 'hug left and change lanes twice with every overtake' technique.

Lane discipline on UK motorways does suck - hence the need to, every couple of hundred metres, tell drivers to STAY IN LANE, when trying to stop a bit of congestion becoming much worse. The Vogons like yourself, who will obey rules regardless of the practicalities ignore these signs and fume at them, as they are only advice, not rules.
Quote:
Not to confuse the driver with more unreliable crap coming from matrix signs.
I agree that the inconsistency is bad, and that we should have one rule. Lets make it the one that the Highways Agency is actively trying to promote as good practice, rather than the one we're stuck with as a historical relic.

What's confusing to drivers is the 50s-era advice to drive in the left lane as much as possible still being in the Highway Code when it's been debunked as the best option, but is so ingrained that people need to be actively told to not do it so as to increase capacity and safety on congested motorways!
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 07:23 PM   #3676
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,247
Likes (Received): 781

Indeed. I'm still not clear why, if we follow the purists' rule, any road could have any use for more than two lanes in a given direction. Besides my sitting-there-looking-pretty theory.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 07:27 PM   #3677
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Science from where exactly? Seeing that the UK infrastructure has been somewhat backward to begin with, who are these wonderful scientists that have come out with this bullcrap that if you hog lanes, the traffic will move faster? Because out in continental Europa, where infrastructure is far more advanced than the UK, they wouldn't dare telling anyone to avoid changing lanes.

Matrix signs are there to provide information. That's what they do, even in the UK. However, they never tell you whether the information on the sign is true or not.
(telling me at 3am on the M25 that there is a queue ahead after next junction )
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 07:37 PM   #3678
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Indeed. I'm still not clear why, if we follow the purists' rule, any road could have any use for more than two lanes in a given direction. Besides my sitting-there-looking-pretty theory.
Because on a lot of roads the volume of traffic cannot handle just two lanes in each direction. It's perfectly acceptable to use lane three, if vehicles on lane one and two are moving slower than you. If vehicle in lane two has finished its overtaking, it moves back to lane one, leaving lane two clear for the person in lane three to move back so traffic on lane three can pass.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 07:37 PM   #3679
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

In my opinion, it would make more sense to build the previously planned M31.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2014, 08:06 PM   #3680
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,434
Likes (Received): 896



I got a bit confused at Leigh Delamere services on the M4, didn't know which side of the road I was on.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorway, united kingdom

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium