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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:15 PM   #381
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post

Chris, how did you enlarge the pic?
What do you mean?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:47 PM   #382
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For confused foreigners, let's have a little practice on the make believe British Overseas Dependency of Mugensaari. Despite minor differences, such as wording their Give Way sign as Yield, Mugensaari copies the UK in most aspects or road signing, including directional signing.

Here's a map of the island, showing principle settlements and the Autotie system...




Here's the scenario...

You're on the A2 going south, past Kesukimachi and you approach the interchange with the A1. You come across this sign...



You want to go to Kallanni but Kallinni isn't on any signs, so which lane do you get into?

Please give reasons why and how you arrived at your conclusion.

Marks available (5).
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:01 PM   #383
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Someone has waaay too much time...
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:02 PM   #384
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Took me ten minutes. If I had time, I'd make a 3D render of the island.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:03 PM   #385
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They'd probably also put typical British "The South" and "The East" etc on that overhead sign, to help the poor motorist too.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:05 PM   #386
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btw - the Isle of Man and Jersey both have their own little numbering scheme, similar to that in Great Britain.

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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:14 PM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post
They'd probably also put typical British "The South" and "The East" etc on that overhead sign, to help the poor motorist too.
Yeah, probably, but I thought that'd make the task too obvious. Also, although I haven't defined the scale of the island, it looks about the size of the Isle of Man in my imagination, so would probably have Kallanni on the sing anyway. However, if you imagined, however, that the island is much large and has many smaller settlements no marked, you get something similar to the UK.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:15 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post
btw - the Isle of Man and Jersey both have their own little numbering scheme, similar to that in Great Britain.

I've never really seen why they bother with A and B classifications. In Great Britian, and possibly Northern Ireland too, they're graded to do with not only importance, but funding/responsibility. I can't see more than one authority dealing with the Isle of Man's roads.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 10:10 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
What do you mean?
I mean the picture here is smaller than the one you posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post


You want to go to Kallanni but Kallinni isn't on any signs, so which lane do you get into?
Isosuo? Where's that? I only see Kallanni.

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Old May 21st, 2008, 10:41 PM   #390
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Quote:
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I mean the picture here is smaller than the one you posted.
Firefly once upload the ZIP's, i downloaded them, i guess they were the original size.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 03:33 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post
sotavento - I think the trouble here is that you are not used to British motorway/road signage and therefore you seem to think that they are confusing and not standardised. If you live here and drive often you'll come to realise that they are very standardised and not confusing at all! I really don't see where you're coming from with this - I have always found the signage to be informative and clear.

As for "what is a motorway?" - it is a 2x2 road or greater (usually they're 3x3 in England) with a hard shoulder, fully flowing interchanges rather than roundabouts or other forms of junction, and a 70mph speed limit (not 80 as you seem to think!) for most vehicles. There are other "motorway restrictions" which include a minimum of 30mph (unless of course there is heavy traffic), no horses, bicycles, etc and a few other rules.

As for the direction boards - Motorways have blue signs with white writing. Primary A roads (a mixture of dual carriageways and other heavily used main roads) have green signs with white writing. Other roads have white signs with black writing. If you're on a little local road and on the direction sign (which will be white with black writing) it mentions the M6 for instance, the "M6" part appears in its motorway colours of blue and white.
Please don't misunderstand this ... once soemone adapts to your reasoning about signals we get away easily ... but they are just overly "pictorial" instead of usefull.

And I pretty much read your entire code prior embarking the plane and picking up my car at the airport ... lucky me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
I don't get the big issue foreigners have with UK road signs either. They're quite llogical, in the most part.

Let's see..

This sign is approaching a motorway exit. For Heathrow, stay on the M4. Stay on the motorway and follow signs for the M23, if you want Gatwick. Stay on the motorway and follow signs for the M40, if you want Oxford. Use the exit for the A412 and Maple Cross.


You're approaching a roundabout. The first exit is the A702 and Elvanfoot. The second exit is Carlisle via the A74(M), which has motorway regulations, as shown by the blue panel and the (M). The next exit is a road that leads you to the M74, which is a motorway as shown by the blue panel and which takes you to Glasgow. You can go this way Douglas via the B7078. The A70 is also down that way. The next exit is not an exit and you'll smash into oncoming traffic. The exit after is a service station.
Blue back = means it's a autoestrada/autoroute/autopista/motorway ... standard "speedy" road standards aply here like everywhere in "civilized" world.

White Y = denotes diverging lanes ... will they be really diverging when one meets the junction ???

3 places up 1 palce left =
- next exit will bem Heathrow , 2nd would be Gatwick and the road would go to Oxford where it terminates
"standard" amrkigns would say this ... adding some distances to the intermediate stops ... and the 1st exit would actualy be ... that precise junction wouldn't it ???

- left branch goes and rerminates at Maple cross


And by the way ... I just lovethe 4 digit A roads ... single lane with passing palces all over the place ... crossing trucks at speed in such places is very funny indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=sorefame

Some A roads:



My favorit highway so far:





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Old May 22nd, 2008, 03:52 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post
Also the "17" in the bottom left hand corner is the junction number - so this is junction 17 on the M4.
Where is "London" anywhere in that sign ???

Or north/south ???


I fail to see any Mapple leafs in such a place that put's Oxford,Heathrow and Gatwich in a straight line ... and Isn't far enought to have a "London this way" put on it.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 03:53 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
But how about those 4-digit numbers? Those aren't that easy to remember for foreigners or people not known to the area.
Some A roads also got 4 digits ... its PRECISELY to bury them in the priority list for drivers ... they put 4 digits on A roads when they build the NEW motorways around them (at least I heard that)
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:21 PM   #394
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yer a nutter mate. those last two posts make little sense at all.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:54 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Where is "London" anywhere in that sign ???

Or north/south ???


I fail to see any Mapple leafs in such a place that put's Oxford,Heathrow and Gatwich in a straight line ... and Isn't far enought to have a "London this way" put on it.
I can tell from that sign, without looking up the location of the junction number, that it is leaving London going west. Oxford, Heathrow and Gatwich are all ahead of you. It doesn't sign Swindon, Bath, Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea either, despite the fact the motorway serves all these places. Being on the M4 going west from London is enough to know that you're going in the right direction for these places though.

Last edited by Gareth; May 25th, 2008 at 07:12 PM.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 10:02 PM   #396
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What about City Centre? It should definitely appear on any sign around London.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 11:43 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
This sign is approaching a motorway exit. For Heathrow, stay on the M4. Stay on the motorway and follow signs for the M23, if you want Gatwick. Stay on the motorway and follow signs for the M40, if you want Oxford. Use the exit for the A412 and Maple Cross.
The example you came up with is great. It got it all in once the flaws of the British road signage. As already mentioned it is mainly based on road numbers. And that's the reason why this sign is utter crap. It is neither on the M4, the M23 nor the M40. It is J17 on the M25. It fooled you and anybody else. Now tell me how someone who isn't used to places like Gatwick or Heathrow is supposed to find his way when even the only useful information is wrong and misleading.

This sign differs from the standard I have to admit. A standard that isn't bad generally. However, signing small town rather than big cities on motorways isn't really helpful. And not just for Europeans.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 12:33 AM   #398
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And way too much stress is put on airports. Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted etc. are small places; how am I supposed to find them on map, if I'm not interested in airports? Most people coming by plane don't rent cars, and British taxi- and bus drivers know where the airports are anyway.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 12:34 PM   #399
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The sign is on the M25, which is the London orbital motorway, and is about 200kms long, signs are based on 5 or 6 places at various points along it, Gatwick and Heathrow on the south and west sides. Its a fair point that they are airports but they are probably much better known than the suburbs and commuter towns the road passes. At other places the signs have "the North" and Dover/Channel Tunnel which are much more obvious and useful to anyone who doesn't know the London area.

Also the junction for shown is a very minor one, no one would exit here to London at all, at the following junction which is the M40 the signs definitely point to London

Re the comments about road numbers not being useful, this is how virtually everyone in the UK refers to roads, I'm genuinely surprised that this isn't how people refer to roads elsewhere in Europe, on other threads people talk about the Hungarian M3 etc. Whether the use of road numbers for general direction finding is because of the signs work or the reason for them is a different question
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Old May 24th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #400
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How can people complain about road signs in the uk?? they are probably the best, if you don't understand place names then you got numbers to back you up. And the major city centres don't need to be signed on every junction, if you're on the M4 heading east you know you'll get to london, heading west you know you'll get to bristol. It doesn't need to be on every sign. You don't need north or south on every sign post either, if your stupid enough to forget which direction you were heading when you joined the motorway its your own fault!!
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