daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 4th, 2015, 12:43 AM   #4061
Autoputevi kao hobi
srBska Kraljica
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vladicin Han
Posts: 4,240
Likes (Received): 4063

@ verreme Yes
Anyway great video i really like it.70 mph is really slow.I think the reason for this low speed limit is because british motorways are packed with vehicles.I think that traffic jams frequently occur there.Especially on M4 and M6.
Autoputevi kao hobi no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 4th, 2015, 03:44 PM   #4062
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
@ verreme Yes
Anyway great video i really like it.70 mph is really slow.I think the reason for this low speed limit is because british motorways are packed with vehicles.I think that traffic jams frequently occur there.Especially on M4 and M6.
The 70 mph speed limit on British motorways has been in place more or less continuously since 1965. The motorways were much emptier then so I don't think there's any link between how much the road is used and the national speed limit. Whether they should increase it of course is moot.
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 07:50 PM   #4063
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,294
Likes (Received): 234

Any car with an engine that has at least four cylinders can easily hit 100+ mph speeds.

In short, the legal 70 mph isn't that slow........but a few extra speed increase would be nice (to keep it in-line with EU peers).

Such as the 130 km/h (80 mph) limit in France for instance.

P.S.
Still a worse offender though is Ontario in Canada (with a max speed limit of 100 km/h = 62 mph).

One of the slowest in the developed world....
Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #4064
AvB
Registered User
 
AvB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 179
Likes (Received): 305

Dual carriageway 70mph
Motorway 70 mph



Quote:
a few extra speed increase would be nice
I suggest +10/20 mph on motorways bacause they are more safer than dual carriageway.

Speed limits like in Germany...fantastic
AvB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 09:13 PM   #4065
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 894

It isn't enforced anyway.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 09:32 PM   #4066
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
It isn't enforced anyway.
With "managed motorways" (which roughly means speed cameras) becoming the norm in the UK, this is going to stop being a valid point. Some day they will lower the threshold of these things and driving 80 mph will automatically be punished.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 09:33 PM   #4067
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

I thought managed motorways were the equivalent of the Dutch 'spitsstroken' (shoulder riunning)?
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 09:37 PM   #4068
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
I thought managed motorways were the equivalent of the Dutch 'spitsstroken' (shoulder riunning)?
In some stretches this means shoulder running, but regardless of that it means variable speed limits -monitored by gantry speed cameras.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #4069
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 747

basically they use the shoulder running as a political reach-around
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'ętes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2015, 10:04 PM   #4070
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

Managed motorways used to be shoulder running, but they changed that to a widening by converting the shoulder to a permanent driving lane. They basically add a new lane within the existing motorway cross-section. It saves a lot of money on and under bridges.

Many of these schemes are still north of 100 million pounds though.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2015, 12:34 AM   #4071
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 894

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
With "managed motorways" (which roughly means speed cameras) becoming the norm in the UK, this is going to stop being a valid point. Some day they will lower the threshold of these things and driving 80 mph will automatically be punished.
I'm not sure about that, I don't think the cameras on the M25 are turned on when the speed limit signs are off, and I'm fairly sure they don't flash under 90. Until recently a lot of them didn't even work as speed cameras.

I know the ones in Bristol are stricter though, it's the only place I know where everyone slows down to 70.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2015, 10:40 AM   #4072
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Cameras are turned off, when the speed limit isn't applied. I read about that on some related to government's traffic web page.

If it comes to speed limit, in my opinion it should not be increased until British drivers are trained to use motorways properly in their driver's schools, not by their parents and uncles as it is now. There is also one of the poorest quality of surface on motorways in the the UK, with potholes, cracks and even sewers. Porous tarmac is extremely noisy too, so driving any faster would generate much more unwanted noise. Irregular shape of merging and exiting lanes might be an issue, as well. So, even if I am a regular user of the motorways, I am against any increase, as for now.
__________________
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #4073
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Cameras are turned off, when the speed limit isn't applied. I read about that on some related to government's traffic web page.

If it comes to speed limit, in my opinion it should not be increased until British drivers are trained to use motorways properly in their driver's schools, not by their parents and uncles as it is now. There is also one of the poorest quality of surface on motorways in the the UK, with potholes, cracks and even sewers. Porous tarmac is extremely noisy too, so driving any faster would generate much more unwanted noise. Irregular shape of merging and exiting lanes might be an issue, as well. So, even if I am a regular user of the motorways, I am against any increase, as for now.
I think that neither British drivers nor British motorways are worse than in most European countries with higher speed limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I'm not sure about that, I don't think the cameras on the M25 are turned on when the speed limit signs are off, and I'm fairly sure they don't flash under 90. Until recently a lot of them didn't even work as speed cameras.

I know the ones in Bristol are stricter though, it's the only place I know where everyone slows down to 70.
When the first speed cameras were erected in Spain, they had a 20 km/h threshold. So people said "it's fine as long as they don't fine you until 140 km/h". Now the threshold is 7 km/h. Other countries have also lowered it. With law enforcement technology getting more and more precise (and cheaper) every day, it's a matter of time for this legal ambiguity to disappear. The future is stricter enforcement of realistic laws, not absurd rules tolerated because of the laissez-faire attitude of their enforcers.
__________________

Kanadzie liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2015, 08:36 AM   #4074
hammersklavier
Feral
 
hammersklavier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 597
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The future is stricter enforcement of realistic laws, not absurd rules tolerated because of the laissez-faire attitude of their enforcers.
...or stricter enforcement of unrealistic laws due to the heartless nature of their enforcement (speeding cameras and software) and the legal process not having caught up...

...or stricter enforcement of unrealistic laws due to increasingly stressed municipal finances and/or policemen being rated on how many speeding tickets they give out...*

If the slowest driving speed on the highway is 10 mph over the speed limit then the speed limit itself is unrealistic. A realistic speed limit needs to be governed by road geometry.
__________________
* Cf. f.ex. St. Louis County.
__________________

Kanadzie liked this post
hammersklavier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2015, 08:52 AM   #4075
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,675
Likes (Received): 2629

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
If the slowest driving speed on the highway is 10 mph over the speed limit then the speed limit itself is unrealistic. A realistic speed limit needs to be governed by road geometry.
I don't know if this is a worldwide used concept, but there's this thing called the V85 (V being velocity). It's the speed at which 85% of drivers drive below it and 15% drive above it. The V85 is a way to give a road a speed limit that fits said road, the 15% above the V85 are seen as excesses.
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2015, 09:29 PM   #4076
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 747

It's quite well-known and repeated statistic going back to the work of Solomon, et. al in the 1950's, basically the lowest chance of accident was between the 85th and 95th percentile speeds. So it was then suggested to set speed limit at 85th percentile rounded up to the appropriate round number, and then obvious tolerance (10 or 20 km/h) would allow traffic up to the 95th percentile to be unfettered.
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'ętes pas morts de rire !

geogregor liked this post
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2015, 01:15 AM   #4077
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 894

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Cameras are turned off, when the speed limit isn't applied. I read about that on some related to government's traffic web page.

If it comes to speed limit, in my opinion it should not be increased until British drivers are trained to use motorways properly in their driver's schools, not by their parents and uncles as it is now. There is also one of the poorest quality of surface on motorways in the the UK, with potholes, cracks and even sewers. Porous tarmac is extremely noisy too, so driving any faster would generate much more unwanted noise. Irregular shape of merging and exiting lanes might be an issue, as well. So, even if I am a regular user of the motorways, I am against any increase, as for now.
We don't have driving schools as a physical building like in Europe (I'm sure you know this, this isn't directed at you as such). You learn to drive on the road and that's it, and learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways. That said, the UK has a pretty good road mortality rate, I don't think things are that bad. Furthermore, even if there was more teaching about how to drive on motorways I don't think anyone would listen.

Anyway, I don't see a need to change the speed limit, I wouldn't be against making it 80 and it wouldn't require much effort. I suspect Scotland would stay at 70 and so no new signs would be needed. I don't think it's that important however. I can't see 70 being enforced, they could enforce it now if they wanted to but they don't, and I don't think they're gonna start fining everyone, people would claim that motorway cameras were a cash cow, not a genuine anti-speeding initiative and it would be over quickly.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2015, 03:41 AM   #4078
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,953
Likes (Received): 2204

British drivers are rather good, on the world scale. They are generally very predictable, almost Germanically so.

Police allow 85mph in practice on motorways that are _not_ busy or weather challenged and in the fast lane. Driving in cities is really stressful, cameras and 30kph/20mph zones are everywhere nowadays, the police are not enforcing these urban zones but city councils and their contract debt collectors are enforcing them for the easy money.

Average speed cameras are there for roadwork zones, they are enforced strictly on safety grounds.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2015, 09:24 AM   #4079
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
We don't have driving schools as a physical building like in Europe (I'm sure you know this, this isn't directed at you as such). You learn to drive on the road and that's it, and learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways. That said, the UK has a pretty good road mortality rate, I don't think things are that bad. Furthermore, even if there was more teaching about how to drive on motorways I don't think anyone would listen.

(..)
I know, I meant driving school as a way of teaching drivers by instructors.
And, obviously I am not saying that British drivers are generally bad (I would not say that), I only said they aren't trained to use motorways properly. And yes, they are quite poor comparing to their counterparts in Belgium, France and the Netherlands (countries with similar speed limit). I've already driven through the mentioned countries for 55th time or so, and just could not believe again that such difference in lane discipline and merging habits would be possible - different worlds.

On the other hand though, there is not many nations as good as British are in
built-in areas, that's a different world too.
__________________
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2015, 11:56 PM   #4080
BIGcider APPLE
Registered User
 
BIGcider APPLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 455
Likes (Received): 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I know the ones in Bristol are stricter though, it's the only place I know where everyone slows down to 70.
I think Bristol's are the only 'managed motorway' cameras in the uk that operate/enforce the speed limit when the variable system is off ie national speed limit. The others only enforce variable, if that makes sense.
BIGcider APPLE no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorway, united kingdom

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium