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Old February 27th, 2009, 06:34 PM   #601
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also off-topic, as not on a motorway...
Sorry I posted a 6-lane expressway.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 07:07 PM   #602
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Quote:
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also off-topic, as not on a motorway...

that guy hadn't broken the law, AFAIK.

he should have kept to the hard strip though.
Why is this thread just about motorways, the title isn't everything.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #603
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Back in 1959 the British highway authorities decided that the prefix Mx would apply to long-distance or integrated motorways. Where, however, a motorway was to be built as a by-pass along an existing route Ax, it would not be given a separate Mx number, but in order to make it clear that it is a motorway and that motorway regulations apply to it, the letter M would be added in brackets to the existing route-number as Ax(M). At the time they thought that this would preserve the continuity of the route-number of long-distance all-purpose roads. And that's how it stayed, considering the British bad attitude towards change.
Road numbers are allocated in zones - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_B...mbering_scheme. To change the scheme for single route numbering when building motorways would have involved a massive renumbering of roads in the UK, which would so very expensive for little gain. As the number of Ax(M) roads is limited and help to maintain continuity for the route. Why change when it's not needed? This article is quite interesting - http://www.pathetic.org.uk/features/numbering/
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:23 AM   #604
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Do you want a ride mate?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:53 AM   #605
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does the uk use the metric system?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:08 AM   #606
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does the uk use the metric system?
once in a bluemoon
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:42 AM   #607
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once in a bluemoon
THAT'S ODD for a european country in the european union.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 09:49 AM   #608
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AFAIK the Brits often regret that they are in the EU
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Old February 28th, 2009, 12:12 PM   #609
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AFAIK the Brits often regret that they are in the EU
Only because the media is owned by a few anti-European people and people delive anything they read, see and hear.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #610
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does the uk use the metric system?
yes. It also uses the imperial system.

Legally, everything has to be in metric, except draft beer (in pints, multiple pints, half pints and third pints) and road signs. However milk, for instance is sold in multiples of 567ml (though some places/brands have 500ml multiples, often at a higher price per unit volume - eg shops selling 2 litres for the price that the competition selling 4pints, as people don't look closely, and lose out on just over 10% of the amount of milk).
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THAT'S ODD for a european country in the european union.
I'm guessing in reference to 'blue'moon? (Bluemoon is a second full moon in a calender month, IIRC). There's not much to tell between red and blue in the UK, both aren't 'red' by european standards. Then again, from America (Barack Obama being effectively right wing in Europe), Europe looks very socialist, despite the rise of the Centre-right across Europe.
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Only because the media is owned by a few anti-European people and people delive anything they read, see and hear.
Not only, though that is a mitigating factor. The problem of paying much more in than we seemingly get out. The out of work fishermen, stopped by EU quotas, when other countries' fishermen are more free. The fact that the CAP is set up to help France (always a sore point) and that the EU's not-very-hidden aim of a European Super State are disagreed with (as they are in France, Ireland and the Netherlands - the only 'old Europe' countries given a public vote on the EU's plans in recent history, not that these votes stopped the EU to continue to try to push it's aims - Ireland is having to vote again as it got the 'wrong' answer).
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:48 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Nick_A34 View Post
Road numbers are allocated in zones - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_B...mbering_scheme. To change the scheme for single route numbering when building motorways would have involved a massive renumbering of roads in the UK, which would so very expensive for little gain. As the number of Ax(M) roads is limited and help to maintain continuity for the route. Why change when it's not needed? This article is quite interesting - http://www.pathetic.org.uk/features/numbering/
Zones: Well defined but badly implemented. According to my files there are the following out of zone numbers: M48, M49, M62, A14, A199, A1000, A1057, A1081, B197, B1164, A282 (yes the non-motorway part of the M25), A3(M), A3023, A3400 (dedicated to Nick A34), B325, A41 (original route), A42, A404(M), A412, A447, A4174, A4300, A4303, A4304, A4500, A4501, A4601, B452, B454, B455, B4640, B4667, B4669, A51, A55, A505, A5127, A5223, B5060, B5061, B5072, B5404, A66, A601 (the Derby edition), A624, A683, A6004, A6010, A6144 (and the former A6144(M)), B6241, B6407, B6420, A720, A88, A882, A8000, B855, B876, A949 and B9176.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:59 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ea1969 View Post
Zones: Well defined but badly implemented.
I agree, on paper it is a great system, but it just too confusing put into practice.
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Ireland is having to vote again as it got the 'wrong' answer).
I am pro EU, but I have to admit that that is ridicolus, they've voted no, it should be end of story.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 03:34 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ea1969 View Post
Zones: Well defined but badly implemented. According to my files there are the following out of zone numbers: M48, M49, M62, A14, A199, A1000, A1057, A1081, B197, B1164, A282 (yes the non-motorway part of the M25), A3(M), A3023, A3400 (dedicated to Nick A34), B325, A41 (original route), A42, A404(M), A412, A447, A4174, A4300, A4303, A4304, A4500, A4501, A4601, B452, B454, B455, B4640, B4667, B4669, A51, A55, A505, A5127, A5223, B5060, B5061, B5072, B5404, A66, A601 (the Derby edition), A624, A683, A6004, A6010, A6144 (and the former A6144(M)), B6241, B6407, B6420, A720, A88, A882, A8000, B855, B876, A949 and B9176.
Indeed there are always exceptions to the rules! The system works rather well though and makes a lot of sense. On just a few of them:

A3(M) is in zone as it is on the A3 route. It is permitted as it is a motorway bypass of the A3. The A404(M) is part of the A404 route so again is fine.

The A1000 at its furthest northern part finishes as part of a junction complex with the A1(M) so it seems to be in zone (yes by a couple of yards it is in another zone).

The A55 starts and finishes within the 5 zone so is fine.

The A3400 is actually the A34 (yards from which I was born) in disguise. It was renumbered when the M40 opened. It should have been given another number, but it is a lot cheaper to tack 00 onto existing signs I suppose.

The A505 starts on the A5 in Dunstable so is in zone I believe.

A282 is out of zone and should have an A1xxx number but they are kind of rare and the A2 zone is still rather full of spare numbers.

The A41 is always open to debate.

The A14 is very much out of zone as is the A42. The later makes sense though as an extension of the M42, but does not follow the rules.

I'll look into the others later. It's past my bed time....
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 05:32 AM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
yes. It also uses the imperial system.

Legally, everything has to be in metric, except draft beer (in pints, multiple pints, half pints and third pints) and road signs. However milk, for instance is sold in multiples of 567ml (though some places/brands have 500ml multiples, often at a higher price per unit volume - eg shops selling 2 litres for the price that the competition selling 4pints, as people don't look closely, and lose out on just over 10% of the amount of milk).I'm guessing in reference to 'blue'moon? (Bluemoon is a second full moon in a calender month, IIRC). There's not much to tell between red and blue in the UK, both aren't 'red' by european standards. Then again, from America (Barack Obama being effectively right wing in Europe), Europe looks very socialist, despite the rise of the Centre-right across Europe.Not only, though that is a mitigating factor. The problem of paying much more in than we seemingly get out. The out of work fishermen, stopped by EU quotas, when other countries' fishermen are more free. The fact that the CAP is set up to help France (always a sore point) and that the EU's not-very-hidden aim of a European Super State are disagreed with (as they are in France, Ireland and the Netherlands - the only 'old Europe' countries given a public vote on the EU's plans in recent history, not that these votes stopped the EU to continue to try to push it's aims - Ireland is having to vote again as it got the 'wrong' answer).
i dont get it, why do some brits dont consider them selves european? that doesn't make any sense when they are clearly in europe
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 05:37 AM   #615
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Chechnya is more European than UK though.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:48 PM   #616
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Well, some UK people just feel own identity and they blame EU for their 'downfall' even though its prospering quite well. I think it has to do more with culture.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:13 PM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ea1969 View Post
Zones: Well defined but badly implemented. According to my files there are the following out of zone numbers: M48, M49, M62, A14, A199, A1000, A1057, A1081, B197, B1164, A282 (yes the non-motorway part of the M25), A3(M), A3023, A3400 (dedicated to Nick A34), B325, A41 (original route), A42, A404(M), A412, A447, A4174, A4300, A4303, A4304, A4500, A4501, A4601, B452, B454, B455, B4640, B4667, B4669, A51, A55, A505, A5127, A5223, B5060, B5061, B5072, B5404, A66, A601 (the Derby edition), A624, A683, A6004, A6010, A6144 (and the former A6144(M)), B6241, B6407, B6420, A720, A88, A882, A8000, B855, B876, A949 and B9176.
M48 is dubious - could be, could not be - did the zone boundary move? A3(M) has been dealt with - it's a spur of the A3. A41 is not out of zone - it may have part of it's London route in zone 5 (including it's southern end), but enters zone 4 - it's legit for it to have a 4x number; as for old route, that never entered the 5-zone.
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Originally Posted by Nick_A34 View Post
The A404(M) is part of the A404 route so again is fine.
A404(M) makes the entire A404 out of zone, as it goes out of the 4-zone the wrong way.
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The A1000 at its furthest northern part finishes as part of a junction complex with the A1(M) so it seems to be in zone (yes by a couple of yards it is in another zone).
it's those couple of hundred yards the wrong side of the A1 that make it out of zone, but it's the old road, so is it even out of zone?
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The A55 starts and finishes within the 5 zone so is fine.
but enters the 4-zone inbetween the ends. Ends have absolutely nothing to do with the zonal allocation. Anyway, it doesn't end in the 5-zone, as it's either beyond the end of the A5, and forming the boundary, or on the A5, approaching from the 4-zone.
Quote:
The A3400 is actually the A34 (yards from which I was born) in disguise. It was renumbered when the M40 opened. It should have been given another number, but it is a lot cheaper to tack 00 onto existing signs I suppose.
yes, but it is still out of zone, even if a fairly clever (if unimaginative) way of renumbering - A4300 is the same.
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The A505 starts on the A5 in Dunstable so is in zone I believe.
I take it you haven't heard on the Leighton Buzzard southern bypass. It ends at the end of the A418 - it's rather pointlessly out of zone.
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The A41 is always open to debate.
there is no debate - there's only a debate if you don't understand the rules.
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i dont get it, why do some brits dont consider them selves european? that doesn't make any sense when they are clearly in europe
Where did I say they didn't? I did say that they dislike the EU, but the EU and Europe are not the same. We do have an island mentality - that bit over the stream is Europe and Europe is a place to go on holiday.
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Originally Posted by Mateusz View Post
Well, some UK people just feel own identity and they blame EU for their 'downfall' even though its prospering quite well. I think it has to do more with culture.
I don't think the UK fishing industry is prospering, and the EU is to blame (though the UK government would have done similar silly things if we weren't part of the EU, but they wouldn't have let Iberian fishermen fish in our seas, with less controls than UK ones).
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 04:46 PM   #618
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Quote:
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Well, some UK people just feel own identity and they blame EU for their 'downfall' even though its prospering quite well. I think it has to do more with culture.
We also ike to thing that we don't have a European culture, but there is no doubt that the culture is European.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM   #619
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Thanks alot for your comments. I will try to point out why I referred to those roads

A3(M): After a while it diverges anticlockwise from its parent road (A3).

A404(M): It runs south of A4, where the A404 starts.

A1000: It is a bit complicated - I agree. The B197 thing makes things more complicated.

A55: West of Bangor it shadows the A5; it also passes the 4/5 Zone boundary many times.

A3400: I fully agree. It may be an aspect of memorizing as well. The same appears to be the case with A4300, A4500, A4501, A4601 too.

A505: It should be a continuation of A418.

A282: I think that they could have given one of the vacant A122 or A150 or even an easy-to-remember A1xxx number (A1100 is vacant).

A41: The original route of the A41 is A4140 and that was in the correct zone as it starts clockwise from A5 and runs alongside M1 for most of its journey in Greater London.

I fully agree with the A14 and A42.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:17 PM   #620
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A3(M): After a while it diverges anticlockwise from its parent road (A3).
It's a spur and therefore the same road as A3.
Quote:
A404(M): It runs south of A4, where the A404 starts.
indeed on the A404(M) running south of the A4. The A404 starts on the M4 (or the Marylebone flyover). The A404(M) is out of zone, but the whole A404 is, thanks to the bit under motorway regs.
Quote:
A41: The original route of the A41 is A4140 and that was in the correct zone as it starts clockwise from A5 and runs alongside M1 for most of its journey in Greater London.
err, so what is the A41 doing in a list of out-of-zone roads? And what does running next to the M1 have to do with anything numbering related?
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