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Old March 13th, 2010, 10:19 AM   #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You always pay to use a piece of infrastructure. Sometimes it's direct (tolls), often it's indirect (petrol tax, registration fees, road tax, etc.)
It's really a misconception to think roads are free if you don't pay tolls.
Thank you, well of course it is a misconception, I should have made the question better, I meant how extended the use of tolls was in GB.
You always pay, but logically you can pay more or less depending on whether there are tools or not.
I don't know if I have explained myself.
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Last edited by Davodavo; March 13th, 2010 at 10:25 AM.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 10:30 AM   #962
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There are a few toll bridges in the United Kingdom, but the only toll motorway that is not a fixed link is the M6Toll around the city of Birmingham.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #963
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Motorway M6, A74(M), M74

I think motorway M6, A74(M), M74 is funny. Itís one motorway with three numbers. M6 from Catthorpe near Rugby to Gretna, A74(M) from Gretna to Abington and M74 from Abington to Glasgow.

I know it was a plan to renumber A74(M) and M74 to M6 for a couple of years ago but in that time they were waiting to finish the last part of this motorway before they should renumber it. But now this motorway is finished so there is no reason to have three numbers on it when they can have only one.

The reason I heard about it is the Scottish government. They say they donít have any plans to renumber this motorway. I think the reason is they donít want to have English motorway number at a Scottish motorway. Only so everyone can understand itís not a English motorway, itís a Scottish motorway.

I think this is typical for Scotland.

But is anyone know if it exist any plans to renumber this motorway? Or is this numbers permanent at the Scottish part?
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Old March 13th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You always pay to use a piece of infrastructure. Sometimes it's direct (tolls), often it's indirect (petrol tax, registration fees, road tax, etc.)
It's really a misconception to think roads are free if you don't pay tolls.
Motorway network is not sufficent, what's even worse, everyone seems to want HSR, trams etc etc
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Old March 13th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
But is anyone know if it exist any plans to renumber this motorway? Or is this numbers permanent at the Scottish part?


There's quite a bit on Wikipedia about the M74 saga...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M74_motorway

Also have a look at this page:

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/m74/

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Old March 13th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #966
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M6/A74(M)/M74

I think the matter is something of a Scottish pride.

However, it is not an uncommon thing in British road numbering. For example I do not understand why when they have built some new sections of a road, they changed the number of the old route (ie. the A1(M) case or the M40 one, which led to renumbering sections of the A34 and the A41) and on the other hand they have left the A3 designation south of Horndean although they have built the A3(M) in parallel. Or I do not understand, why there is an A601 in Derby and an A601(M) in the Northwest etc.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #967
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Oh my god, I found my old flat!!!! How old are these images? Google, thank you for helping to ease my homesickness.
OMG! so much has been added I've just seen! The photos are pretty new as my neighbours hedge has been cut in the photos and that didn't happen that long ago!
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #968
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M27, J9 to J3. + M271.

Clicking the link below you can see full trip:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...452021&page=14 begins from the post 266



Several random pictures:









A piece of information about M27/M271 and links to the sources:

http://www.ciht.org.uk/motorway/m27scoastm.htm

Quote:
Well, let's start at the northern end. The terminal roundabout is perfectly reasonable. Then we get to the M27 junction and we have to stop for a roundabout! That's right, stop for a roundabout. No flyover, no underpass. And if that wasn't enough, there's some traffic lights on it too! It's so bad that it's one of CBRD's Bad Junctions.

Astounding. Mind you, next we have a proper junction, the only one on here, and it is with an unclassified road! It can't even be bothered to meet an A or B road! It's also junction 1, which leads me to suppose that the M27 junction is junction 2, but that number never appears on the signs!

Then, we get to the southern terminal junction, where three lanes of traffic seem to head straight for a block of flats, before all getting turned sharp right and having the entire motorway dumped onto a tiny roundabout.

It really does seem as if it was built purely for practice, as there's pretty much every kind of feature that you might find on a British Motorway, including an extra lane between junction 1 and the southern terminus...

There's also an awful surface along most of it; possibly even worse than any other motorway I've been on.


http://pathetic.org.ukhttp://pathetic.org.uk/current/m271/

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/badjunctions/junction.php?id=28





What's wrong with it?

Quote:
This is a troubled little motorway. It doesn't ask for much, it just shifts traffic around the west of Southampton, connecting the M27 bypass to the docks and providing a few local connections. It isn't a big job, and yet somehow the M271 gets it all wrong.
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/m271/

http://zone.theaa.com/forums/thread/627/#post1540

Quote:
If you've looked at the junction diagram already you should know. The M271 - not much of a road, but still a motorway - is interrupted by a roundabout. If the route of the M271 is busy enough to warrant a motorway, surely the motorway built there should be built to the correct standards. There's only one actual grade-separated junction on the M271; the other three (this and the termini) are roundabouts. It's a motorway alright, but only because it has an "M".
Quote:
Well, that's certainly part of it. If you can't remember what it looks like, there's some photos here.

There are several theories as to why that section isn't motorway itself - ranging from the hard shoulders being a few inches too narrow (which is ironic as there are no hard shoulders at the eastern end of the M27), to there being no alternative route for non-motorway traffic - which is rubbish, as the old A27 is just to the north and quite frankly, anyone who tries to cycle down this great huge road is just asking for trouble.
What is for sure is that it was certainly planned to be part of M27.
http://pathetic.org.uk/unfinished/m27/

Clicking the link below you can see much more:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...452021&page=14 begins from the post 266

Last edited by piotr71; March 15th, 2010 at 01:27 AM.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #969
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There are some pics of really interesting junction connecting M27 with M271.

[IMG][/IMG]





I think the surface quality on M271 is one of the worst in the UK.



Click here to see more:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=452021&page=14/post266

To complete preview you can watch pics of
M27 J12 to J9 (made some time ago) here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=452021&page=10-post197

Last edited by piotr71; March 15th, 2010 at 12:08 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #970
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Are the first ones from the M27? At least the surface is a lot better there, this last one might be a lot bumpy while driving.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 01:16 AM   #971
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Yes, M27 has pretty good surface not counting several mile concreted stretch which quality is below average. Two bits are recently upgraded to 4+4(about 5 miles altogether) with new tarmac, being almost as smooth as on Dutch motorways. The rest is paved with typical for the British motorways, coarse grain tarmac.

M271 is all you can name but good
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Old March 15th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #972
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering, is there a map anywhere that makes a distinction by colour between the Motorways, 'Motorwaylike A' roads, and other types of A road?

Thanks,

Jeremy

Last edited by JeremyCastle; March 15th, 2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason: correcting mistakes.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #973
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By "Motorwaylike A Roads" do you mean dual carriageways or A roads which are officially motorways - i.e. A3(M)?
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Old March 16th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
Hi everyone,

I was wondering, is there a map anywhere that makes a distinction by colour between the Motorways, 'Motorwaylike A' roads, and other types of A road?

Thanks,

Jeremy
Motorways are blue and A roads are green but A(M) roads are also green i think
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Old March 16th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
Motorways are blue and A roads are green but A(M) roads are also green i think
Ax(M) roads are signed in blue like all other Mx motorways. Other A roads are signed in green only if they have primary route status; the rest along with B roads are signed in white. An A road may have both primary and non-primary sections within its length.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #976
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If this is sounding complex, it's probably best briefly explaining the history and development of the Great Britain route/classification system.

Way back (I think around the 1920s?) all roads in Great Britain were classified as being either A, B or unclassified. When motorways came along, some decades later, it was decided to give these newly constructed roads their own M classification/route identifier. However the A roads (or, more usually, sections of an A route) which were upgraded to motorway grade became A (M) rather than remaining simply A or becoming a new M route. So sections of the A1 which become motorway are now the A1(M). This actually makes perfect sense as the M1 exists otherwise and runs separately and the A1 remains a route of its own, albeit with some sections as motorway and the rest mainly dual carriageway.

Primary routes are those (non-motorway) A roads which are designated (at a national level) as being the main non-motorway routes of the country, supplementing the motorway network. They are usually shown as green routes on maps and on signs. They can be dual carriageways or single carriageways - dual carriageways are shown as such on maps, usually by a thicker line or a double line. Motorways are always blue on maps and signs. The other A roads and all B roads are often shown as red and orange (or yellow) on maps respectively.

Last edited by Manchester Planner; March 16th, 2010 at 11:56 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 11:55 PM   #977
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Here's a good example:



This shows the motorway "M6" (with junction 34) running south-north. The green road is a primary A road, the red roads are other A roads and the yellow roads are B roads. The dual carriageway A road, on the left, is shown by a double green line. All other roads are thin, white lines.

The A6, which pre-dates the M6, is also on this map. A tiny section at the bottom is dual-carriageway. It is not, at this point anyway, a primary route though, despite the "high" route number of 6. (When the motorway M6 was built it took the long distance traffic away from the old A6 presumably.)

Lancaster is shown with a green highlight over its name as it is a primary destination - a locality which a primary route or motorway has as its destination.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #978
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If I can add something. Some maps also highlight multilevel junctions on "A" dual carriageways, even numbering them, so you can recognize most motorway-like non-motorway roads.

Picture of one of my maps showing A14:

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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #979
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Yup and to add even more British map reading hints and tips ( ) those junctions (be it on motorways or dual carriageways) shown as red are restricted in the sense that one cannot go from any direction to any direction. So on the above map, 38 & 39 are restricted, and probably work together in order to allow traffic to move on/off the A14 in all directions and senses.

Also with that last map - orange shows the B roads, and then the minor, unclassified roads are shown in yellow and white - the yellow roads are the advised/through roads and should be used unless going to somewhere really specific.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #980
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Thanks for the info everyone. Perhaps I should give a concrete example of what I mean, as I am not sure how else to explain it.

When I drive from the Nottingham to Birmingham, I take the A453 to the M1 and then get on the A42. This road is like a motorway in every way, except in name, and then at some point, the A42 becomes the M42. So, I guess I am trying to find some sort of map that indicates a difference between the A42 and other 'types' of A road.

I know that these type of A roads lack certain things, like wide enough shoulders and long enough exits and entrances, but they are in essence, a Motorway, even if they are not labeled as such.

If roads like the A42 were indicated on a map for all practical purposes a motorway, even if they don't fit the legal definitions, I think the UK could show that it actually has a decent motorways system in comparisons with Holland or France.
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