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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #81
ChrisZwolle
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Yeah Britain really got an advantage there with almost all motorways being 2x3 lanes.

British motorways got the higest average AADT though, i thought something in the 80.000 area, and that's really busy for an average figure. After that, the Netherlands follow quickly, but the next (i don't know which) is far away.

Another advantage of British motorways is, that it doesn't have every 2 miles an exit, like in the Netherlands, where the average distance between exits is 3,5km. So many exits really give a lot of turbulence and potential traffic jams on the road.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 09:43 PM   #82
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The 3+3 was mostly a case of planning ahead. If you see pictures of the M1 when it was first opened, it is virtually empty.

That is not to say that all are like that: There is still a section of the M3 from London to Southampton/South Coast that is 2+2 - this is always busy. Still, I am unaware that any 1+1 section still exists, unlike a brand new peice of autoroute in France I have been on.

In fact I have driven on most Western European motorways and I would say that the UK's signs are some of the best. Anyone who thinks Belgium's are good has clearly never tried to pass through Antwerp or westbound through Gent.

France's and Germany's junctions are well signed on new routes, however. (The new parts of the Germany A3 are great, the older parts not so great IMHO.)
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Old August 27th, 2007, 09:49 PM   #83
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Still, I am unaware that any 1+1 section still exists, unlike a brand new peice of autoroute in France I have been on.
You mean the A28 south of Rouen? I saw some 1+1 bridges there. No big deal, since there was about zero traffic
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Old August 27th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
You mean the A28 south of Rouen? I saw some 1+1 bridges there. No big deal, since there was about zero traffic
Yes those are the ones. They are not a major bottleneck now...
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Old September 4th, 2007, 02:03 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
T Anyone who thinks Belgium's are good has clearly never tried to pass through Antwerp or westbound through Gent.
I think there is really NOBODY who thinks Belgium has good road signs
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Old September 4th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #86
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I don't think that anybody has said this here: In the UK any out of town dual carridge way has a 70 mph speed limit.
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Old September 4th, 2007, 10:05 PM   #87
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In Germany there are 'Gelbe autobahnen' (so not real freeways) with a limits of 120, 130, or even no speed limit at all.
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Old September 4th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #88
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Gelbe Autobahnen means Yellow motorways, which is called so for the yellow (Bundesstraße - Federal road) signs on it. Not a real motorway, but sometimes more motorway than some Autobahnen.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #89
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My two pence...

British motorway themselves are fine and YES 99% of the time they ARE 2x3 lanes. However, I think the British road network overall is UNEVEN. It's not that it varies too much in quality; QUANTITY is the problem here. Quite a few brits agree that there is a capacity problem (check out the RUA brochure). I live in London but have also experienced roads to Bournemouth, Norwich and of course the motorways to the eurotunnel. First off, I'd like to say that the above cities are SO MUCH more pleasant than London.

Here are my grips with its motorway network:
1. why in the world use BOTH A?(M) AND A?M designations for motorways??
2. the A3 (A3(m) is ok) really sucks : there are MANY ROUNDABOUTS. ALSO, in the middle of my journey from Bournemouth to London, the A3 went THROUGH a town and squeezed all traffic into a 2x1 road ! I was expecting the A3 to be at least 2x1 with PROPER EXITS NOT ROUNDABOUTS.
3. M25 is fine motorway (a lot of traffic though) but why in the hell isn't the A406 a motorway. the A406 varies from 2x3 to 2x1 !
4. The road called south circular is simply pathetic! it's supposed to be a counter part of the A406 but is only 2x1. WHY?
5. I used the M23 from Gatwick to London and tried to plough trough south london to get to the center. WHY does the M23 stop SO SOON? It doesn't even reach Croydon or the south circular. The M1 and M11 reach the north circular (aka A406) why can't the M23 reach the south circular?
6. The road to Norwich is really strange! the northbound M11 part was fine no prob (notice it is 2x2 from stanstead onwards) but then the A11 is of much lower quality; it goes down to 2x1 at a point!


I much however commend the A40 west of Euston (if it had a hard shoulder i would call it a 2x2 motorway) and is a gem of a road in central London.

I read quite a bit about road pricing and was curious what you're thoughts were. I AM A BIT SHOCKED with something officials/environmentalists say here: "we cannot build ourselves out of congestion". IMHO this more false than true in particular in britain with a ROAD DENSITY HALF OF THE NETHERLANDS. Any remarks?
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Old October 5th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #90
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I AM A BIT SHOCKED with something officials/environmentalists say here: "we cannot build ourselves out of congestion".
Yeah, that's just bullshit, they say the same thing in other countries. But such guys are always against any road-improvement in every kind of way. Don't take them too serious.

I guess they think sticking with a road network that isn't build for todays population (density) is good?

If you did nothing the last decades in road improvement, a small road-widening here and there won't work. But those guys use it as an argument to say road widening doesn't solve problems.

A lot of environmental groups are nothing but "against" "against" "against" etc, very unreasonable. Like keeping traffic jams is a good thing for the environment....
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Old October 6th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #91
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These motorways have always impressed me.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 08:42 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
If you did nothing the last decades in road improvement, a small road-widening here and there won't work. But those guys use it as an argument to say road widening doesn't solve problems.
I very much agree

I just think that in the UK there is an overwhelming fealing of conservatism especially towards the environment.
For example, i had a conversation with some british/english friends of mine: I said at one point I really like Dubai. They commented immediately of the near slave status of its Asian immigrants (those who actually build the skyscrapers). Granted they were right but that was the first thing they said in response (kinda shows their mentality) ; they didn't agree with awesomeness of Dubai skyscrapers.
Even worse, I dared to compare London to Shanghai and Paris, explaining that to improve an old city some demolition needs to take place. That's how Paris got the Champs Elysees and Shanghai its skyscrapers/highways. They looked at me as if I was some kind of lunatic and completely dismissed what I think are reasonable arguments.

Anyway, I would like to add that British A roads vary tons in the quantity of lanes. The A2 section near Bluewater is massive while The A5 is single carriage-way most of the way.
Also a 3 lane motorway/expressway is not necessarily better than a 2 lane autoroute/autobahn in continental Europe. First of all, the A roads, some of you claim to be just as good as the continental motorways, simply are not. These roads are too bendy (uncomfortable to maintain 130kph), not free flow (many/most of those 2x2 so called expressways use roundabouts for exits which is really not to common motorway spec), has often no slip roads nor hard shoulder. I have experienced all of this on the A3 and A11.

It is my belief that Britain needs to double its motorway length/density to compare to Continental Europe. Right now its motorway network is comparable with that of Italy, Spain and Portugal... British Motorways are simply not as ubiquitous as they should be.

For the record my favorite countries for motorways are:
1. USA
2. Deutschland
3. China

What I really like about the US is that when you get off a motorway the roads are still at least 2x1 or 2x3. In the UK, you very often land on a measly 2x1 road which creates long queues.

Last edited by DUMB0; October 6th, 2007 at 08:49 PM.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUMB0 View Post
What I really like about the US is that when you get off a motorway the roads are still at least 2x1 or 2x3. In the UK, you very often land on a measly 2x1 road which creates long queues.
That's a very good point, in some countries, a good alternative to the motorways is almost non-existing. (like the Netherlands), but when the motorway Network (not the capacity) is extensive, people tend to go on the motorway, even for like 2 - 5 miles. The pressure on motorways is very high, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have (by far) the highest average AADT on motorways. If we live in such a densely populated country, you just need a decent non-motorway roadnetwork. In Belgium, they did that a bit better, a lot of non-motorways are 2x2 lanes all the way, it doesn't matter too much for the environment if a road is 7m or 15m wide, but it does when it comes to a good road network and general traffic flow. Belgium is a very densely populated country too (unlike other European countries as France, Germany or Spain).

But in very dense populated countries, people/political parties/environmental organisations tend to want to spare every square inch of non-buildup area, giving a huge pressure on the outdated existing roads. That may work well if you have no growth in population, but not in the UK, Benelux or other countries where population has grown with millions in the last 2 decades.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 01:48 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUMB0 View Post
Right now its motorway network is comparable with that of Italy, Spain and Portugal...

I agree whith what you said on your post, but this phrase in partucular was just unfortunate.
It shows that you have no idea about what the freeway/motorway networks of those countries are.

The UK can only dream of having a motorway network as good as those countries.

For the record, Spain is the country in europe with the most extensive freeway network (in total length), and Itally has one of the oldest motorway networks in europe, and arguably one of the best road infraestructures in the continent (especially in the north).
As for Portugal, it has a motorway network over 2000km's long, whitch for a country of its size, and with just 10 million people, is a very good network.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #95
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Well a Glaswegian asked someone to pick up the baton, so who am I to deny?

Manchester:

M60 orbital motorway
image hosted on flickr


A57(M) Mancunian Way
image hosted on flickr


M62
image hosted on flickr


M56
image hosted on flickr


M61
image hosted on flickr


M66
image hosted on flickr


M602
image hosted on flickr


Junction of M66, M62 and M60
image hosted on flickr


Can't seem to get any proper pics of the M67 or the A627(M). All the motorways lead into the city's M60 motorway, except for the M602 which cuts from the M60 to the edge of the city centre and the A57(M) which is an elevated bypass for the city centre. It's the highest concentration of motorways in the UK, with 25% of the entire network joining up here.

The Worsley Braided Interchange on the M61 is also the widest stretch of road in the UK, spanning I think 18 lanes.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:32 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
I agree whith what you said on your post, but this phrase in partucular was just unfortunate.
It shows that you have no idea about what the freeway/motorway networks of those countries are.

The UK can only dream of having a motorway network as good as those countries.

For the record, Spain is the country in europe with the most extensive freeway network (in total length), and Itally has one of the oldest motorway networks in europe, and arguably one of the best road infraestructures in the continent (especially in the north).
As for Portugal, it has a motorway network over 2000km's long, whitch for a country of its size, and with just 10 million people, is a very good network.

When you say that are you including the n on-motorway dual-carridge way network? That has the same 112 kmh speed limit?
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Old October 7th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #97
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I'm I including on what?

Most UK's A roads which are dual darriageway don't have motorway standards: plagged by roundabouts, no hard shoulders (emergency lanes), etc...
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Old October 7th, 2007, 03:34 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
I agree whith what you said on your post, but this phrase in partucular was just unfortunate.
It shows that you have no idea about what the freeway/motorway networks of those countries are.

The UK can only dream of having a motorway network as good as those countries.

For the record, Spain is the country in europe with the most extensive freeway network (in total length), and Itally has one of the oldest motorway networks in europe, and arguably one of the best road infraestructures in the continent (especially in the north).
As for Portugal, it has a motorway network over 2000km's long, whitch for a country of its size, and with just 10 million people, is a very good network.
My mistake. I must say however that those Mediterranean counties do NOT have a motorway network comparable to nations such as France, Germany or the Netherlands. At least I say that just by looking at a map. Spain in particular has a motorway network funded almost completely by the EU and therefore are of a great quality. I've heard that once you get of the motorway, Franco's legacy still remains. Italy I guess has a pretty good motorway network in particular in therich north. What I said previously about Italy was because of my negative impressions of Rome (looked dirty, plenty of grafiti) and just didn't feel much better than London. But any bias has an element of truth so i stand by my original comments.

EDIT: just checked google maps. Italy is average while Portugal and Spain look quite good indeed. I withdraw comparing the UK to Portugal or Spain.


What I'd like to know is what you guys think is missing a britains motorway network. Personally, any city around 120.000 should be connected to the motorway network (dual carriages do NOT count).

Last edited by DUMB0; October 7th, 2007 at 04:22 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
I'm I including on what?

Most UK's A roads which are dual darriageway don't have motorway standards: plagged by roundabouts, no hard shoulders (emergency lanes), etc...
But they have the same speed limit.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 06:10 PM   #100
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So what?!
If a country limits all it's crappy roads to 200km/h does that make it a country with good roads?
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