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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #1001
Maxx☢Power
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I also think having a separate expressway category forces road authorities to not make exceptions everywhere. If you're building an expressway and are planning to designate it as such, you can't add roundabouts or skimp on things such as protective barriers and on/off ramp length. An explicitly designated expressway wouldn't just transform into a two-lane road because it has to go through a town centre, it would be built outside the town.

If you look at expressways in Eastern Europe they're mostly motorways in all but name, but with a little less stringent (and probably more cost-effective) design standards. Regardless of the reason for their designation (NIMBYs are less likely to protest against an expressway as opposed to a motorway), the fact that they're not just dual-carriageways without any special designation removes excuses for cutting corners.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #1002
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One fine example of that is the A50. From the M1 it has 'expressway status' and then all of a sudden, it as you get closer to Stoke, it 'dies', and you reach a roundabout(maybe 2) and then it reverts into an expressway again! I just think that's silly.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #1003
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Studying a map of the UK, I am struck by the lack of a direct connection between Stansted airport and Luton airport. Have there every been any plans to upgrade and extend the A120 to link the two airports? That would avoid having to go down to the M25 and then back up. Seems extremely inefficient.
Why do the two airports need such a connection?? How many do you think drive from one to the other?
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Old March 19th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #1004
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Well, it's not the connection between the two airports that is the most important, but for the people's living in say Bournemouth, Portsmouth who want to drive to Luton or Stansted.

As of now, they are always funneled onto the M25. If there was a link between the two airports and the A34, you could siphon off a lot of traffic off the M25. From the other direction, if you upgraded the A120 from Braintree to the A12 at Colchester, you could siphon off more M25 traffic for the people trying to travel between the Ipswich area and Luton. As of now, they are always routed onto the M25.(According to Google maps).
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Old March 19th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #1005
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There's the A414
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Old March 19th, 2010, 09:41 PM   #1006
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That's quite a minor rd.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:34 PM   #1007
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Plauged by roundabouts and lights but it's not a trunk route so gets less priority. But as for connecting the two airports - its sufficient and the bus link between the two is able to connect the large number of towns in between to both airports
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #1008
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A 414 is not the best choice, it is really "slow" road. Only reasonably usable section is older M10.

When I lived in London I was co-owner of a small minicab company specialized in airport transfers. I remember several (maybe 3-4) trips from one airport to the other (LUT-STN) Basically, trips were caused by customers who mistakenly went to pick-up members of their family, let's say from Stanstead, who already landed in Luton. Another reason for transferring someone from L. to S. laid in mixed domestic and international flights.

Most efficient and quickest way to get from S. to L. was using M11, M25 and M1. But, back to these days, I would be really glad, if instead of that, I had any straighter and shorter connection to choose.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 10:52 PM   #1009
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Hmmm.....I do the route regularly and find the A120, A10, A414 route fastest - there's a back route from Hatfield direct to the airport ;-)

The Motorways aren't much different but if you hit heavy traffic you're f****d!

Tell you what...I'll race ya!
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Old March 19th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
Hmmm.....I do the route regularly and find the A120, A10, A414 route fastest - there's a back route from Hatfield direct to the airport ;-)
I should say it is my opinion based on my experience.
And as everything, time from S. to L. depends of many factors.


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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:44 AM   #1011
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According to Google maps, the M10 is still there even though as of last year, it became part of the A414.

Last edited by JeremyCastle; March 20th, 2010 at 12:51 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #1012
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Outdated then. I drove from/to Luton about 3 months ago and noticed lack of M10 signpost. When I checked in the internet I found this:

Quote:
The original southbound distributor for the M1, now downgraded to A-road status. The reason the seemingly unimportant M10 existed goes right back to when this bit of the M1 opened in 1959. There were no other connections (there were, for that matter, barely any other motorways) so all the M1's traffic had to return to the old road network.
From here:
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/m10/

and

Quote:
M10 Motorway (1959 - 2009)
On the penultimate day of its operation before being downgraded to an A road, this
from:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1279637
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #1013
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There seems to be a real need for more motorways, as well as a major improvements to the rail network. A second motorway north of the M25, from Ipswich straight across to Oxford, and then down to the coast, would help traffic flow on the M25 and benefit the wider economy as a whole. I wonder... if they had done that rather than massively widening the M25, would the widening still have been needed?

Also, like we've already talked about, there really needs to be a difference between Motorways and 'expressways,' how do other European countries label their roads?
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #1014
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Why does there 'need' to be more cosmetic differences between different road classes? To the average driver what's important is having a dual-carriage way that allows you to do 70, the same speed limit as that allowed on motorways. Having a blue motorway is just a bonus as volumes warrant one, otherwise the odd roundabouts here and there really don't hurt at all.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 05:23 AM   #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Why does there 'need' to be more cosmetic differences between different road classes? To the average driver what's important is having a dual-carriage way that allows you to do 70, the same speed limit as that allowed on motorways. Having a blue motorway is just a bonus as volumes warrant one, otherwise the odd roundabouts here and there really don't hurt at all.
What do you mean by "roundabouts here and there really don't hurt"? Of course they do hurt! Try driving from Portsmouth to Brighton on a summer weekend... you'll have 14 roundabouts on an otherwise "dual carriageway" A27 which is the main transport route in the area connecting two largest urban centers and serving some of the most densely populated places in all of Europe.

Southeast is a disaster when it comes to road infrastructure. There should be at least two East-West motorways (A27 and perhaps A272) while now there are... none. Ones who are responsible for the current state of the road network in the Southeast of England should face criminal charges an eventually a life imprisonment or something similar because it causes billions of £ of damage to the taxpayer due to inadequate infrastructure.

Last edited by Pansori; March 20th, 2010 at 05:29 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 08:40 PM   #1016
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Routes got built, with the 'occasional' roundabout. Later other routes got built, with the same. Before we knew it, we ended up with what we have today - a transport infrastructure with no joined-up thinking, meaning to get from A to B means traversing a multitude of such routes.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #1017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
What do you mean by "roundabouts here and there really don't hurt"? Of course they do hurt! Try driving from Portsmouth to Brighton on a summer weekend... you'll have 14 roundabouts on an otherwise "dual carriageway" A27 which is the main transport route in the area connecting two largest urban centers and serving some of the most densely populated places in all of Europe.

Southeast is a disaster when it comes to road infrastructure. There should be at least two East-West motorways (A27 and perhaps A272) while now there are... none. Ones who are responsible for the current state of the road network in the Southeast of England should face criminal charges an eventually a life imprisonment or something similar because it causes billions of £ of damage to the taxpayer due to inadequate infrastructure.
I wonder why you're actually there when roads in southeast England doesn't match you expectations. Why don't you just sod off to a place with lots of motorways? It's you're choice.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #1018
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I wonder why you're actually there when roads in southeast England doesn't match you expectations. Why don't you just sod off to a place with lots of motorways? It's you're choice.
Actually I'm not there (although I'm rather familiar with the area)... I'm in London which is even worse. Although I don't have any dreams about London ever developing a decent road network due to heavy urbanization (although that would still be possible with a bill of tens if not hundreds of billions of £).

However, I wonder why it wasn't possible to develop an adequate road system in the Southeast at least... of course one point may be that the planners "know better" but... when driving here it really makes me wonder about the mental health of those who actually planned/implemented it.

As about why I'm there? Well, I guess there are more important things in life than just motorways.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 11:58 PM   #1019
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As far as London is concerned, I think the chances for a decent road network were lost in the 1960's and 1970s with the cancellation of the "Ringways" and other major radial roads. These schemes were drawn during and immediately after WWII, but only some bits were actually constructed. (For more information, please see http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/ringways/).

I think it was a combination of financial reasons, local opposition and some anti-car policies that resulted to this. This is also the case in Southeast England as well, so I do not think there will be any significant improvements / additions to the road network there.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 12:38 AM   #1020
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Originally Posted by ea1969 View Post
As far as London is concerned, I think the chances for a decent road network were lost in the 1960's and 1970s with the cancellation of the "Ringways" and other major radial roads. These schemes were drawn during and immediately after WWII, but only some bits were actually constructed. (For more information, please see http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/ringways/).

I think it was a combination of financial reasons, local opposition and some anti-car policies that resulted to this. This is also the case in Southeast England as well, so I do not think there will be any significant improvements / additions to the road network there.
Interesting stuff, thanks! This is what ideally London would need. Sweet dreams.
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