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Old March 31st, 2010, 12:56 AM   #1041
DanielFigFoz
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Yesterday I noticed something strange. The A40(M) lost it's motorway status to be transfered to Transport for London, however, I as watching the traffic CCTV on the BBC yesterday and the tape clearly said TRANSPORT FOR LONDON A40(M)
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Old April 1st, 2010, 02:48 PM   #1042
Manchester Planner
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The BBC are far from being infallible.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 09:54 PM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
Yesterday I noticed something strange. The A40(M) lost it's motorway status to be transfered to Transport for London, however, I as watching the traffic CCTV on the BBC yesterday and the tape clearly said TRANSPORT FOR LONDON A40(M)
Probably they did not bother to change the inscription.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #1044
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This thread has really slowed down! Let me see if I can wake it up(at least a little). :-)

Returning to a topic I brought up earlier and expanding a bit on it, it would be interesting to see how much it would cost to create a whole integrated highway network for the UK.
That is having every motorway and primary dual carriageways(expressways) connect with each other in one giant seamless network allowing drivers to never have to stop for a traffic light or a roundabout until she/she reached their junction to get to their destination.

I know in this economic crisis, this is not a realistic idea, but would love to hear from some people as to how much this would cost? It would cost a lot, but at least many many jobs would be created.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:40 PM   #1045
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M62 at Castleton





M62 from Scammonden Bridge, looking east.


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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #1046
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Does that section has shoulder running? The shoulders look prepared for that...
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Old April 18th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #1047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
Returning to a topic I brought up earlier and expanding a bit on it, it would be interesting to see how much it would cost to create a whole integrated highway network for the UK.
That is having every motorway and primary dual carriageways(expressways) connect with each other in one giant seamless network allowing drivers to never have to stop for a traffic light or a roundabout until she/she reached their junction to get to their destination..
For example the dual carriageway in this video has an awful lot of roundabouts on them... I mean, there should be some kind of policy to eliminate these roundabouts when there is a (financial) opportunity.

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Old April 18th, 2010, 11:14 PM   #1048
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For example the dual carriageway in this video has an awful lot of roundabouts on them... I mean, there should be some kind of policy to eliminate these roundabouts when there is a (financial) opportunity.
Don't fix it if it isn't broken. These roads seem to cope with traffic fairly good. Most junctions are already grade-separated. Others can't be upgraded due to limited space.
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Old April 19th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #1049
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Old April 20th, 2010, 02:05 PM   #1050
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Don't fix it if it isn't broken. These roads seem to cope with traffic fairly good. Most junctions are already grade-separated. Others can't be upgraded due to limited space.
I completely disagree with you flierfy(politely of course). I can't tell you how many times that I am happily driving around at 60-70mph on a nice expressway(primary dual carriageway) when I have to slow and yield at a roundabout just because some minor A road intersects with it. If you are going to build a road that you can drive 60-70 miles per hour on, the whole network(in which that speed is allowed) should be considered one whole "organism", rather than the piecemeal network the UK currently has.

I realize that my original statement/question might be construed as mostly hypothetical, but only partly. Traffic flow could be a lot smoother if one integrated freeway network(motorway/primary dual carriageway) system was a goal of the UK transport gods.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #1051
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How much money are we talking to take a simple intersection of a dual carriageway and one relatively minor road which is currently served by roundabout and either insert a flyover or tunnel with sliproads instead?

Any guesses? Multiply that figure by the number of simple intersections of that type around the country and I suspect that the figure is going to be pretty huge!
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Old April 20th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #1052
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You can also reduce the number of minor roads having to interchange with the dual carriageway anyway. Spain managed to construction literally thousands of such interchanges in the past 15 years. I don't see why the UK can't, if you take the time for it. First start with the busy intersections, then do the minor ones.

Another possibility is to just build slip roads, but not an overpass for minor intersections. Through traffic on that minor crossing road can use a nearby interchange for example.

Meanwhile, I'm still searching for a British traffic volume map or excel file.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 02:21 PM   #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
I completely disagree with you flierfy(politely of course). I can't tell you how many times that I am happily driving around at 60-70mph on a nice expressway(primary dual carriageway) when I have to slow and yield at a roundabout just because some minor A road intersects with it. If you are going to build a road that you can drive 60-70 miles per hour on, the whole network(in which that speed is allowed) should be considered one whole "organism", rather than the piecemeal network the UK currently has.

I realize that my original statement/question might be construed as mostly hypothetical, but only partly. Traffic flow could be a lot smoother if one integrated freeway network(motorway/primary dual carriageway) system was a goal of the UK transport gods.
Roundabouts are by far the most efficient way to join roads. They provide a remarkable amount of capacity while still being fairly save and cheap. Cheap in actual construction cost as well as land consumption. The latter is even more important in one of the most densely populated part of the world, that England is.

An integrated freeway network is just a purist's wet dream but no real purpose as such. Junctions are improved occasional and some roads are even turned into continuous freeways. But to connect all dualled and grade-separated roads into one integrated network is neither needed nor intended.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 03:01 PM   #1054
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I agree with flierfy completely. Roundabouts do not always equate to jams - there might be a road leading to a few villages that require access to the major road, and it's clear in this instance a fully grade-separate junction would not be justified. Apart from the purists roundabouts, or anything that gives drivers a break from 70mph are actually welcomed by drivers.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 07:49 PM   #1055
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Apart from the purists roundabouts, or anything that gives drivers a break from 70mph are actually welcomed by drivers.
It is true that on small roads they use mini roundabouts as traffic calming. If anyone is unaware a mini roundabout is a painted circle on the ground where normal roundabout priorities work. They work quite well in some areas as speeding drivers are forced to look around and approach them at a safe speed. In many cases a grade separated junction won't fit and not all have the majority of traffic passing through so it would not be a simple task at all.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 04:44 PM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Roundabouts are by far the most efficient way to join roads. They provide a remarkable amount of capacity while still being fairly safe and cheap. Cheap in actual construction cost as well as land consumption. The latter is even more important in one of the most densely populated part of the world, that England is.
On a dual carriageway, roundabouts do not save that much land compared to a compact GSJ. They do save considerably on construction cost, but they impose a higher cost per motor vehicle transit on the "through" road and the cumulative excess cost can easily be higher than the construction cost difference between a roundabout and a GSJ over the life of the improvement.

Quote:
An integrated freeway network is just a purist's wet dream but no real purpose as such.
This is not strictly true. You don't want to waste money replacing roundabouts with GSJs, even when they are failing, unless analysis at the corridor level shows that the improvements won't expose other bottlenecks and will therefore deliver a net savings in time. But interconnecting lengths of comprehensively grade-separated road produces network effects.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 09:22 PM   #1057
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And this is how British think of roundabouts:

"They're everywhere. Connecting roads large and small, organising and smoothing the conflicting needs of traffic. Helping people get on and off busy motorways, providing a pleasant transition from open road to suburb, making the flow of urban streets more efficient. It's amazing how productive it can be to go in circles.

The humble roundabout has been with us for a century now, in various forms, through all manner of fashions for straight sides and sharp corners, different systems of priority, one way and two way traffic flows.

These days, traffic lights are probably multiplying at a faster rate, and "give way" junctions are far more numerous, but roundabouts are the ones that have suited us best and become part of our culture. To people overseas, they have often become associated with all things British".

More about the topic can be found on: http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/roundabouts/
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Old April 24th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #1058
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The M4 in Cardiff between J33 and J35 was closed westbound nearly all day today after a fatal accident there this morning between a Transit van and a lorry. All traffic was diverted onto the parallel A48, which is a single carriageway virtually the whole way (except the bypass around the village where I work), there was a 3 hour tailback to leave the motorway at the closure, and Cardiff was completely congested with traffic seeking alternative routes around the closure. It took me 1h40 to go 15 miles from my home in Cardiff to Cowbridge, and all evening I've been stuck in the traffic while making deliveries.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #1059
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Don't get my wrong, I think roundabouts are great, much better than traffic lights anyday(and safer)but for example, leaving Nottingham for Derby on the A52 as it leaves the city, it turns into a 70mph primary dual carriageway, yet just as you start to cruise, in only about 1.5 miles, you reach quite a large roundabout(Stapleford/Long Eaton) which creates some terrible jams in the morning and evening. Once through it, it is again 70mph for the next 7 miles when it reaches the outskirts of Derby.

Another example is the primary dual carriage(A46) way from Lincoln to Newark. The constant stop and car of cars from 70mph to 0 on that primary dual carriageway everytime a roundabout is reached creates a disjointed flow of traffic. From an environmental perspective, it is better in terms of car exhaust to keep the traffic moving on the main through-way, not to mention the economic benefits of better fuel economy for the drivers.

Can anyone confirm that the expansion of the A46 from Newark south will be grade separated, eliminating wasteful roundabouts?
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Old April 25th, 2010, 03:05 PM   #1060
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In my travels across the East Midlands(and surrounding areas) it seems that Derby and Leicester have a much better road network in and around their respective city compared to Nottingham. Can anyone share any light as to why Nottingham hasn't cared to upgrade their network?
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