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Old October 7th, 2007, 06:23 PM   #101
Nephasto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUMB0 View Post
I've heard that once you get of the motorway, Franco's legacy still remains.
Well, I know more than well the spanish road network and I don't agree. Spanish road (not freeway) network is ok, and some major roads are actually very good. Not worse than the rest of europe, and certainly much better than the UK.

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Originally Posted by DUMB0 View Post
EDIT: just checked google maps. Italy is average while Portugal and Spain look quite good indeed. I withdraw comparing the UK to Portugal or Spain.
Well, I disagree on Italy being average... in my opinion the north of Itally has, as I've said, one of the best road (motorways and regular roads) of europe. But that's off topic anyway.


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Originally Posted by DUMB0 View Post
What I'd like to know is what you guys think is missing a britains motorway network. Personally, any city around 120.000 should be connected to the motorway network (dual carriages do NOT count).
Well, thousands of km's of new motorways, and many improvements on existing regular roads.
This year I went to Edinburg(driving from England), and left the M75 to take the A702 to Edinburgh... Well, all I can say is wowwwww!!!
How is it possible that an important road like this (main conexion between the capital of Scotland and England) looks like a bad local road?! Honestly, it was quite a shock. And the quality of roads kept being really low all over scotland. And from what my parent (who were also in cornwall) told me, it was the same in cornwall.
For someone who is used to drive thousands of km's all over european roads every summer, I must say that british roads are quite aa unpleasant surprise, especially taken into account that the UK is a rich country.


Well, but anyway, those narrow scotish roads make for some great photo's with the surrounding landscape!
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Old October 7th, 2007, 07:20 PM   #102
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Existing motorways in UK have good quality. Problem is with quantity.
France has similar population to UK and 3 or 4 times more km of motorways.
I won’t even mention Germany.
UK is of course smaller than France but still quite large country.
But there is no chance for them to be built. All Britain got recently crazy about global warming. Some people would ban cars altogether and force us all to overcrowded trains, some of the worst railways in Europe. Or walk everywhere.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 08:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Existing motorways in UK have good quality. Problem is with quantity.
France has similar population to UK and 3 or 4 times more km of motorways.
I won’t even mention Germany.
UK is of course smaller than France but still quite large country.
But there is no chance for them to be built. All Britain got recently crazy about global warming. Some people would ban cars altogether and force us all to overcrowded trains, some of the worst railways in Europe. Or walk everywhere.
Hehe, same stuff here. Some guy wrote in the newspaper;

"Why do all these guys go in their rotten capitalist cars? Go with the public transportation! I would like if they remove all motorways, much better for the economy - THE REAL LEFTIST SOUND."

But then again, never take such nutheads serious.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:18 PM   #104
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So what?!
If a country limits all it's crappy roads to 200km/h does that make it a country with good roads?

True.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 01:46 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Existing motorways in UK have good quality. Problem is with quantity.
Indeed... UK's motorways are very good (2x3 all the way). The problem is quantity, and that makes them very congested.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #106
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A lot of environmental groups are nothing but "against" "against" "against" etc, very unreasonable. Like keeping traffic jams is a good thing for the environment....
Being against by everything ensures them surviving, cuz most of them don't even know why they exist.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 08:38 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
Well, I know more than well the spanish road network and I don't agree. Spanish road (not freeway) network is ok, and some major roads are actually very good. Not worse than the rest of europe, and certainly much better than the UK.



Well, I disagree on Italy being average... in my opinion the north of Itally has, as I've said, one of the best road (motorways and regular roads) of europe. But that's off topic anyway.




Well, thousands of km's of new motorways, and many improvements on existing regular roads.
This year I went to Edinburg(driving from England), and left the M75 to take the A702 to Edinburgh... Well, all I can say is wowwwww!!!
How is it possible that an important road like this (main conexion between the capital of Scotland and England) looks like a bad local road?! Honestly, it was quite a shock. And the quality of roads kept being really low all over scotland. And from what my parent (who were also in cornwall) told me, it was the same in cornwall.
For someone who is used to drive thousands of km's all over european roads every summer, I must say that british roads are quite aa unpleasant surprise, especially taken into account that the UK is a rich country.


Well, but anyway, those narrow scotish roads make for some great photo's with the surrounding landscape!
Just a little correction, its the M74.

Anyways the road network is poor, many people in my area complain about the poor state of the road itself, the capacity and usage. For example in my area we have a new an A road being upgraded to Motorway(M80), work is finally going to start early next year after more than 30 years of arguing about the route because many people don't want the Motorway to be built near their houses and have caused the dealys. It's a similar situation with the A702, people nearby don't want it upgraded as it'll lead to an increase of traffic and pollution in the surounding area, therefore if a plan to upgrade it appeared, local people would be up in arms about the proposal and it would most likely be scrapped. I wish they would do something about the capacity and quality of the Roads in Scotland, poor surfaces and huge Delays especially near Glasgow and Edinburgh. Even last week on the A80 through my town of Cumbernauld their was a small roadworks in which a single lane was closed and their was tailbacks longer than an hour.
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Old October 11th, 2007, 12:44 AM   #108
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Good news about the M80.

I think that the problem is that too much power is given to people when it comes to stoping projects. Just because someone doesn't like the idea of a motorway disturbing one's views or whatever, doesn't mean the motorway shouldn't be built.
This happens everywhere, I know. The problem is that in the UK (and in some other countries in northern europe too) it's just too much.
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Old October 11th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #109
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Funny story about the A80 today near to where I live, a lorry carrying nearly 2000 live chickens crashed and many escaped. The road was shut for 9 hours trying to catch them all, there was huge tailbacks across Central Scotland.

Also there was a programme about the British Motorways History on the TV and it showed how the public went from being extremely supportive of the new roads and allowing the Government to build them near to where they lived, to being hostile towards them and endangering their own lives to stop the roads being built. Great TV viewing.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #110
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Old October 20th, 2007, 06:18 PM   #111
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Hello, here are some pictures from M25, which I made in August 2007

M25 London Orbital Motorway, between junction 15 (M4) and 2 (A2) - 214 pictures, Picasa Web Album


Sample photos

2x6 section near Heathrow


Junction with M3








4 stack level interchange with M23








Above M20
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Old October 20th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #112
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Very nice.

Bigass Hummer:


British signage never satisfied me. No sign of any destination east of the M25, which is a much-used route from Europe. Dartford is very unknown compared to Dover or Folkestone.


Did you know these British portals are the unsafest you can think of? Crashing into them causes much moreoften fatalities as their European counterparts.


Traffic jam ahead?


Again a lot of destinations which do not suit the demand of long distance traffic.


Only three lanes for the M25. Not enough for the traffic volume.


Are there more stretches in Europe with a variable speed limit, apart from the traffic jam speed limits one can see in Netherlands or Germany?


Old pavement. I guess it's quite noisy.


Nice countryside near London. The lamppost are quite high.


Chaotic signage, i guess that's why no other European countries use it.


Always some Dutchmen on the road


Finally a destination east of London on the signs, however Maidstone isn't wellknown as the Chunnel destinations.


Incredible how much airports there are near or in London.


Still quite hilly.


How many lanes will this section get? Such signs are good for the understanding of drivers for eventual traffic jams because of the road works.


Thanks for posting!
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Old October 20th, 2007, 06:51 PM   #113
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What is the deal with designations like A1(M)?
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Old October 20th, 2007, 06:56 PM   #114
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And another series of M25 pictures, this time from the northern section

M25 between junctions 24 and 2, including Dartford Crossing - 111 pictures, Picasa Web Album



Again, some sample photos


Junction with A10, which is being improved






Interchange with M11












Dartford Crossing - Queen Elizabeth II Bridge (one-way)




Toll gates
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Old October 20th, 2007, 07:13 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Traffic jam ahead?
Yes, we got caught in a jam. And you have to stick to the speed limit all the time, because of speed cameras.

Quote:
Only three lanes for the M25. Not enough for the traffic volume.
This is because M25 had three lanes before the improvement. Between the interchanges it has at least 4 lanes in each direction. But it would be hard to widen M25 at the interchanges

Quote:
Chaotic signage, i guess that's why no other European countries use it.
IMHO the signage is quite good, compared to French or Polish, for example. But it would be better if the signs included more important destinations.

Quote:
How many lanes will this section get? Such signs are good for the understanding of drivers for eventual traffic jams because of the road works.
This section is being widened to 4 lanes in each direction. New sliproads are also being built for traffic heading from M25 southbound to A2 eastbound.

Last edited by a3c4; October 20th, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
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Old October 20th, 2007, 07:51 PM   #116
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What is the deal with designations like A1(M)?
Yeah, that's quite confusing.

There are some categories of roads in the UK;

M: Motorway
A: first class road
B: 2nd class road
C: 3rd class road

Some A-roads are up to motorway standards, en they add the (M) behind the number.

Think of it like some US state road gets an (I) (interstate) behind the number when it has freeway standards. Like State Route 280 (I).
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Old October 20th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Incredible how much airports there are near or in London.
They seem to be the main destinations on the Orbital.

a3c4, this is a great presentation of the M25! Do you have the entire ring?
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Old October 20th, 2007, 10:41 PM   #118
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Yeah talk about the speeds and lack of capacity, yesterday the M8 was named as the slowest Motorway in the Uk due to traffic Jams and Not enough lanes for the amount of traffic. It's average speed was 52.5 mph.

Quote:
Did you know these British portals are the unsafest you can think of? Crashing into them causes much moreoften fatalities as their European counterparts.
Those ones in the pics are a lot more safe than the other ones in the UK that have large concrete support pillars like this.
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Old October 20th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #119
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Yeah talk about the speeds and lack of capacity, yesterday the M8 was named as the slowest Motorway in the Uk due to traffic Jams and Not enough lanes for the amount of traffic. It's average speed was 52.5 mph.
That's not so bad? In the Netherlands, we have motorways with a 50MPH limit
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Old October 20th, 2007, 10:55 PM   #120
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a3c4, this is a great presentation of the M25! Do you have the entire ring?
Unfortunately no But I have some photos of other motorways/expressways in the Greater London Area, such as North Circular Road, M4, M23. I'll try to upload them in the next few days.
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