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Old September 22nd, 2010, 01:47 PM   #1601
sotonsi
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Didn't the DfT also find that the benefits weren't good enough for it to be worth even the £750m? That £750m will be £1.5 billion now, given construction inflation, and would basically being the change signs when they life-expire (given it's the cheapest option), so would take 30 years plus.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:43 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by Fatfield View Post
There was a feasibility report done some years ago by DfT about changing signs from Imperial to Metric. The jist of this was that it would cost at least £750m.

Knowing the way we go about things like this, it would take 12 years to implement, and cost about £5bn in the end.

And for our European viewers that's €879m & €5.9bn respectively.
I can tell you are a typical miserable £%£.

Your middle sentence revealed that, even if you are tongue in cheek.

Personally, I dont care about metrification of road signs. Everything else is metric pretty much. They really need to get the metric on ALL of the vehicle height/width signs though.

However, why can't they just have a rolling programme over years and years of replacing signs with km distances hidden, then unveiling them one night. They could scrap all of the old signs and recycle or sell, as well as cut down the amount of signs and give a chance to overhaul signage completely. I dont see how it can be even a minor cost if done like this over 10-15 years.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 04:11 PM   #1603
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The point about it all isn't whether it's right or not, or how much it would cost or how much better it would look, its about the return on the investment.

Is it really worthwhile for a government to plough £750m+ into a scheme of metrification? What sort of benefits would both the average motorist and the transportation and haulage industry see?

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference would it? The only gains by going metric are that so we 'match up' with the rest of the continent, something that is considered abhorrant by the majority of the UK population.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 06:38 PM   #1604
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M50 - yestarday about 10:00

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...38581&t=h&z=15

to M5


direction Ross on Wye/Wales



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Old September 22nd, 2010, 06:46 PM   #1605
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Originally Posted by Map Guy View Post
The point about it all isn't whether it's right or not, or how much it would cost or how much better it would look, its about the return on the investment.

Is it really worthwhile for a government to plough £750m+ into a scheme of metrification? What sort of benefits would both the average motorist and the transportation and haulage industry see?

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference would it? The only gains by going metric are that so we 'match up' with the rest of the continent, something that is considered abhorrant by the majority of the UK population.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it
I'm sure the same arguments were made before decimal currency was introduced.

Metric is not a European thing, it's a worldwide thing, bar here and the states, and even then, we already use metric for virtually everything now anyway.

The simple fact is, we live in an increasingly globalized world. People are moving to other places to vacation, live & merely transit more than ever before and this will continue to increase. Some people seem to hate this idea (I don't see the chargrain myself) but the fact is it's happening and will continue to do so unless nationalism & isolationalism make a big comeback (and I really doubt they will and would hope not).

I can't stand the 'culture' argument when it comes to these things. I simply don't relate with MPH signs as part of my identity and don't have much time for the idea that replacing them with KM/H is just one step further to a monocultural world. To me, measurements are mundane, mathematical devices that we use to quantify things and that's pretty much it. They're things I'd quite happily have uniform worldwide along with other things, like the design of mains sockets.

Metrification of road signs will happen. It's already happening, with respects to headway signs & similar and those new 'mile' markers that are now appearing on motorways. It may take a century, like decimalization did from the initial debate to the first steps to the final implementation, but it will happen regardless.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 06:59 PM   #1606
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Originally Posted by Republica View Post
I can tell you are a typical miserable £%£.

Your middle sentence revealed that, even if you are tongue in cheek.

Personally, I dont care about metrification of road signs. Everything else is metric pretty much. They really need to get the metric on ALL of the vehicle height/width signs though.

However, why can't they just have a rolling programme over years and years of replacing signs with km distances hidden, then unveiling them one night. They could scrap all of the old signs and recycle or sell, as well as cut down the amount of signs and give a chance to overhaul signage completely. I dont see how it can be even a minor cost if done like this over 10-15 years.


Boohoo! You were obviously at the back of the queue when the sense of humour genes were handed out.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:01 PM   #1607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Map Guy View Post
The point about it all isn't whether it's right or not, or how much it would cost or how much better it would look, its about the return on the investment.

Is it really worthwhile for a government to plough £750m+ into a scheme of metrification? What sort of benefits would both the average motorist and the transportation and haulage industry see?

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference would it? The only gains by going metric are that so we 'match up' with the rest of the continent, something that is considered abhorrant by the majority of the UK population.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it
You guys are just trying to be show-offs. Bridge strikes are common in the UK because the signs are in feet or yards. I'm sure it would work out cheaper to switch over by a simple means of overlaying all the existing signs. I had previously recommended this.

Using two sets of measurements creates confusion and unnecessary haggles because you're trying to work out the equivalent in metric or vice versa. You use metric in all liquid and food weights so whats the problem using Km/h and Kilometres?
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:07 PM   #1608
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You guys are just trying to be show-offs. Bridge strikes are common in the UK because the signs are in feet or yards. I'm sure it would work out cheaper to switch over by a simple means of overlaying all the existing signs. I had previously recommended this.

Using two sets of measurements creates confusion and unnecessary haggles because you're trying to work out the equivalent in metric or vice versa. You use metric in all liquid and food weights so whats the problem using Km/h and Kilometres?
Actually, we don't. Draught, canned, bottled beer and milk comes in pints or multiples thereof. There are some milk and beer 'bottles' that are exactly 2l but not many.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:13 PM   #1609
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Actually, we don't. Draught, canned, bottled beer and milk comes in pints or multiples thereof. There are some milk and beer 'bottles' that are exactly 2l but not many.
Last time I was in Asda UK, all your soft drinks were in Litres. The only ones that weren't were alcohol, something like '4 UK units'...... Still had Ml on the label.

All your petrol pumps were in Litres also. Now finish it off by switching the speed limits and signs. Using SI units makes more sense.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:23 PM   #1610
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...in much the same way that using English (or Mandarin) as a universal global language would make sense as well. Just think of all those countries with populations of less than 10 million with their own national language. Think of the unnecessary waste, and the vast cost incurred around the world each year associated with translating from one language to another. Clearly, we need a global standard.

It's interesting that the keenest proponents for a change to the system of measurements in the UK appear to be from outside the UK! If you're listening out for a clamour for change in the UK itself, I'm afraid you won't hear one. (Some dissenters, of course, but the debate has been on the back burner for decades.)
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:37 PM   #1611
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...in much the same way that using English (or Mandarin) as a universal global language would make sense as well. Just think of all those countries with populations of less than 10 million with their own national language. Think of the unnecessary waste, and the vast cost incurred around the world each year associated with translating from one language to another. Clearly, we need a global standard.

It's interesting that the keenest proponents for a change to the system of measurements in the UK appear to be from outside the UK! If you're listening out for a clamour for change in the UK itself, I'm afraid you won't hear one. (Some dissenters, of course, but the debate has been on the back burner for decades.)

Its a set of measurements for goodness sake.... why are you associating it with your national identity?

And people DO speak English around the world!

Many people in the UK want to switch over to metric measurements (all liars get caught out in the end):

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...8/index36.html

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/show...t=92171&page=2

http://www.youtube.com/user/UKMetric.../0/LQpc7BMi1bE
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:40 PM   #1612
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Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
Last time I was in Asda UK, all your soft drinks were in Litres. The only ones that weren't were alcohol, something like '4 UK units'...... Still had Ml on the label.

All your petrol pumps were in Litres also. Now finish it off by switching the speed limits and signs. Using SI units makes more sense.


You are so wrong its unbelievable. Have a look at the link and remember, I said bottles.

http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estor...questid=195089

UK Units have absolutely nothing to do with liquid measurements. They represent what the Govt believes are safe daily amounts of alchohol for adults to drink per day. eg The Govt guideline for an adult male is 3-4 units per day and for a female its 2-3.

And as for markings, they may well say 0.56l but that equates to, yes you've guessed it, 1 pint!

We will never change as it would cost to much money. Unless the EU wants to fund it.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:49 PM   #1613
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If you can find 'national identity' anywhere in my post, I'll give you a prize, sweetie. (Clue: I didn't mention it...because that's not the argument I'm making.)

As for your rather coarse accusation that I am a liar, again - please take a deep breath. I accepted in my post that, of course, some people are pro-metrication. But they are very much in the minority. If you think that by posting three weblinks you have somehow demonstrated that public opinion is in largely in favour of change, you would be deluding yourself.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 07:51 PM   #1614
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You are so wrong its unbelievable. Have a look at the link and remember, I said bottles.

http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estor...questid=195089

UK Units have absolutely nothing to do with liquid measurements. They represent what the Govt believes are safe daily amounts of alchohol for adults to drink per day. eg The Govt guideline for an adult male is 3-4 units per day and for a female its 2-3.

And as for markings, they may well say 0.56l but that equates to, yes you've guessed it, 1 pint!

We will never change as it would cost to much money. Unless the EU wants to fund it.

Look again It also gives the cost per Litre.

I took this directly from that Asda link to show you:

'79.2p/lt'


If you read my previous post on that, there's a big difference between soft drinks and milk. Sorry, you appeared to be confused.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:01 PM   #1615
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Look again It also gives the cost per Litre.

I took this directly from that Asda link to show you:

'79.2p/lt'


If you read my previous post on that, there's a big difference between soft drinks and milk. Sorry, you appeared to be confused.
I never said it didn't I said, and this is where you are totally confused, they are measured in imperial. Look at the link I supplied the bottles are in pints (1pt, 2pt, 4pt & 6pt). Whether there's a price per litre is irrelevant as they're not measured in metric.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:02 PM   #1616
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If you can find 'national identity' anywhere in my post, I'll give you a prize, sweetie. (Clue: I didn't mention it...because that's not the argument I'm making.)

As for your rather coarse accusation that I am a liar, again - please take a deep breath. I accepted in my post that, of course, some people are pro-metrication. But they are very much in the minority. If you think that by posting three weblinks you have somehow demonstrated that public opinion is in largely in favour of change, you would be deluding yourself.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said the word 'majority'. You appeared to associate the metric issue with national identity. I can't see how changing a set of measurements would make such a big deal. It was done in every other country and the end result was a success. I would imagine that most elderly people in Britain would be inclined to use MPH and miles, thus being against this changeover. But many people in Britain (including businesses) would like to complete the switch. The UK is now an import dependent country so it would be impossible to insist on Lb's/Ounce units anymore. EU trade law permits Metric only measurements.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:09 PM   #1617
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I never said it didn't I said, and this is where you are totally confused, they are measured in imperial. Look at the link I supplied the bottles are in pints (1pt, 2pt, 4pt & 6pt). Whether there's a price per litre is irrelevant as they're not measured in metric.
Soft Drink

7up, 1.5L:

http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estor...=1214921923747

Tell me Fatfield, where do you see the imperial units here?

Its all in metric.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:12 PM   #1618
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Soft Drink

7up, 1.5L:

http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estor...=1214921923747

Tell me Fatfield, where do you see the imperial units here?

Its all in metric.
What are you blathering on about? I never mentioned soft drinks. Beer & milk. Which part did you not understand?
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:21 PM   #1619
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What are you blathering on about? I never mentioned soft drinks. Beer & milk. Which part did you not understand?
Dear confused Fatfield,

I'll re-emphasize my earlier post which this refers to:

'Last time I was in Asda UK, all your soft drinks were in Litres'

i.e. Coca Cola, 7up, Finches, Sprite etc.

Then you started about milk/pints and whatever else.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 08:29 PM   #1620
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Dear confused Fatfield,

I'll re-emphasize my earlier post which this refers to:

'Last time I was in Asda UK, all your soft drinks were in Litres'

i.e. Coca Cola, 7up, Finches, Sprite etc.

Then you started about milk/pints and whatever else.
You want to learn to read as you clearly don't have a clue what you're on about. Look further up the board. Post #1608 to be exact.
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