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Old September 26th, 2010, 07:28 PM   #1681
DanielFigFoz
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I can't see any of them .
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Old September 26th, 2010, 07:28 PM   #1682
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Just want to confirm that I can see all Piotr's pictures now. Not sure what happened.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 08:58 PM   #1683
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Great update as usual Piotr!

London needed at least one more M25.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #1684
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del pls
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Old September 26th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I'm surprised you weren't caught in a jam at J18 - you have 5 lanes go into 3 lanes in a short space, due to the roadworks to the north, and finished nature of the road to the south.
I was caught in a jam on the way back, 1hr 25 mins from J21 to J16. That section is about 15 miles long only.

By the way, I drive on this part of M25 regularly every 2-3 months and can say that roadworks between junctions 18 and 16 have been carrying on there from 2006. Either clockwise or anticlockwise.

I hope you all can see the pictures. I don't what caused the problems. As far as I know hot linking from picasa is not forbidden and I use this hosting for quite a long time never having any major problems with visibility.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #1686
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most of that jam must have been between 21 and 18, in the roadworks - while 18-16 is busier, it's also 4 lanes and would flow a lot better, unless there was an incident.

J18 seems to be problematic every time I've used it - only a short jam of like 20 seconds, or 30 if joining, but it's just silly not planning the merge well - start the roadworks a 100m south of j18, rather than inbetween the on and off-slips, lay out some cones giving a lane drop and make it a lane drop for the time being, rather than having the lane drop just after the (currently very short) merge.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #1687
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I traveled there (anticlockwise) at Friday about 2pm, so I suppose it had to be weekend's beginning congestion. Further down South, before junctions with M4, M3 and A3 I got stuck in traffic too. It wasn't that horrible as between M1 and M40, however still let me lose some time. And at last, passing Hindhead took circa 25-30 minutes
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Old September 27th, 2010, 11:43 AM   #1688
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I have, several times. Only when it's offered though (Wetherspoons Beer Festivals, and such like). If stopping for just a pint with friends, it makes some sense to try three different beers for the same price (maybe a smidge more) as a pint. It's purely a beer festival thing, which I did say it was.
I'm a member of Camra and go to plenty of beer festivals across the North of England and also pop down to the smoke for the big one. I also frequent a Wetherspoons at least once a week and have never seen, nor been offered a 1/3 of a pint. I've had plenty of 'tasters' which are normally about an 1/8 of a pint poured into half pint glasses and also some places will use 'short' glasses or plastic cups.

Maybe its a southern thing but it certainly doesn't happen in the North.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 07:27 PM   #1689
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Maybe its a southern thing but it certainly doesn't happen in the North.
I have had them at Wetherspoons beer festivals. Apparently at least in Liverpool they are called 'nips'. I have never seen them at beer festivals as most I go to you get your own pint glass. I find at these you order a half and the barman usually makes a quite generous guess at where halfway is on the pint glass.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #1690
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Have just logged in, 14:25, and I can't see any of the M25 images.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #1691
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I can see all pictures.

By the way, it's about damn time M25 was widened. They hugely underestimated the actual traffic demand when they constructed M25 in the 1980's. It was inadequate within 2 or 3 years.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #1692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I can see all pictures.

By the way, it's about damn time M25 was widened. They hugely underestimated the actual traffic demand when they constructed M25 in the 1980's. It was inadequate within 2 or 3 years.
Problem is - there's often inadequate alternative routes nearby. Particularly on the Eastern side around Essex.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #1693
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M25 is a good road, it is the complete inadequacy of the roads within it that are causing all the problems.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:22 PM   #1694
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yeah, we could really do with the north and south circulars being a proper inner motorway ring rather than the mish-mash of local dual-carriageways they are.

If all the radiating motorways entering the London area from around the country then terminated at that inner ring rather than at the M25 or just beyond like they do now it would make a big difference I think.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:40 PM   #1695
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M25 is a good road, it is the complete inadequacy of the roads within it that are causing all the problems.
Exactly, M25 itself isn't an issue. However, I would add something else to the inadequacy of the roads connected to M25: inadequacy of junctions' shape and slip roads on entrances lacking of long and parallel merging lanes.

As the merging lanes mainly have taper shape (not only on M25) the merging traffic dos not accelerate efficiently on the slip road, instead of doing that, drivers are constantly looking for safe gaps to merge onto the motorway simultaneously slowing down on slip road and interrupting motorway traffic. The other thing is, that drivers, for unknown reason, are trying to merge on the beginning of merging lane (even if long enough) instead of continuously accelerate to get speed equal to this on motorway and merge somewhere on 3/4 of its length.

So, in my opinion, road works should start on reshaping merging lanes to make them more drivable. I do not want to sound controversial, but sometimes it might be worth to implement in Britain something what on the Continent works quite well
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Old September 28th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #1696
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What always strikes me about the M25 (even more than other Biritish motorways) is the complete lack of useful focal points on the signs. On an orbital road I would want to see towns that will be familiar to just about anyone on the road, like Birmingham, Cardiff, Southampon. Or even THE NORTH-WEST, THE WEST and THE SOUTHWEST if you please. But not towns for which I need a map, like Basingstoke and Reading.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #1697
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Indeed. Many of the roundabout interchanges need to be demolished! - free flowing stacked interchanges are required (jct 23, 28, 29 etc).

I'm also convinced that much of the congestion is caused by people refusing to drive in the left lane and the knock-on effect of this on the innermost lane.
Perhaps a ban on HGV's overtaking during busy periods? - often when HGV's overtake everyone in a car squeezes into the third innermost lane to overtake both.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #1698
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Quote:
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Perhaps a ban on HGV's overtaking during busy periods? - often when HGV's overtake everyone in a car squeezes into the third innermost lane to overtake both.
* picks up jaw from desk

You don't have truck overtaking bans during rush hour on a road like M25? That surprises me!
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Old September 28th, 2010, 11:26 PM   #1699
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
By the way, it's about damn time M25 was widened. They hugely underestimated the actual traffic demand when they constructed M25 in the 1980's. It was inadequate within 2 or 3 years.
Surrey County Council wanted at least a 2x(3+2) set up, plus other routes, like the M31, in order to deal with the traffic.

Also parts of Ringway 3 (where the M25 is outside that) and the North Orbital Road (where the M25 is on Ringway 3) lasted quite a while afterwards, and early sections would have been designed and built when there were still plans for 3 and a half ring motorways. Each section had to be justifiable on it's own, and given the plans at the time (the M25 ending at it's northern end, Ringway 3 being the through route) the Rickmansworth bypass (J17-19) being built to D3M standards was almost overkill for the traffic it was planned to have. Of course, the plans changed and the 4 lanes it's (half) widened to now was what it needed 23 years ago, and is under what was desired by 1992 - even the widening the M25 has had has been turning an inadequate amount of capacity to a less inadequate amount of capacity.

At one point the M4-M40 bit was going to become 2+3+3+2, but that got watered down to 4+4. Until the widening from the M3 to the M4, that was the busiest section of M25. No idea why they didn't widen it as part of the T5 works.

The 1989 Orbit study (after Ringway 3 had gone) had, in addition to making other orbital routes better (hence the A404, A331, A130 and A312 upgrades) this as desired width of the M25:



C-D lanes was as you're not meant to widen past D4M - you'd have local and express carriageways. I've put bad where the actual layout was at least 2 lanes each way narrower than the predicted traffic was meant to need. I've put OK where the road is actually only as wide as it needs to be. I've used the final 2007 proposed layout for '08 and '12 layouts here, and I'd imagine that many of the bits with C-D lanes would actually have more than 5 lanes at this point, maybe even a 4+4+4+4 set up.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #1700
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Quote:
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* picks up jaw from desk

You don't have truck overtaking bans during rush hour on a road like M25? That surprises me!
I've never even heard of that concept.

Anyway people overtake and undertake on the M25, pass from all angles and all over the place, and drive in any lane, so it would be pretty useless .
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