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Old October 28th, 2010, 09:30 PM   #1781
sotonsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
He's not saying we should have them, he's just asking if we do have them.
So why did he ask, "Why would they permit over taking on these?"?
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Old October 28th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #1782
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In most countries you can't.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #1783
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
So why did he ask, "Why would they permit over taking on these?"?
Daniel has summed up everything I was going say. It kind of defeats the whole purpose by allowing over taking on a hatched marking, would it? Usually, hatch markings are placed to enable carriage reduction space (e.g. at the end of a dual carraigeway / divided highway). For safety reasons....

Although it's easier to distinguish by having either double white or single broken white, I've driven on roads in GB where the brow of a hill or a dangerous corner still has a single broken white line. Would that not create a litigation culture against the Councils?
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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #1784
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That is very dangerous.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 12:22 AM   #1785
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Erm no you've got it all wrong...

Where some countries would use a solid white line (or double line such as the USA), the UK uses a dashed line.

There are 2 variants
- long lines with short gaps between them represent a hazard and you should not overtake unless the road is clear (like this -------)
-short lines with larger gaps between them are the other marking where there is no hazard (like this - - - - )

A double white line is used where you must not cross or straddle the lane.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #1786
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Yes, but a ---- line might mean that you should'nt cross, but it doesn't say that you can't.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #1787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
Yes, but a ---- line might mean that you should'nt cross, but it doesn't say that you can't.
As I said it instructs you to exercise caution and use your common sense.......If you cannot cross - there will be a double white line indicating so.

To apply double white lines at every area where caution is required (which is frequently on the narrow/twisty etc roads here!) would defeat their purpose as the areas where they are actually most needed wouldn't be so evident.

The UK has some of the safest roads in the world and the marking system is thorough...if anything it's overcomplicated especially compared to many other countries.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #1788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
Erm no you've got it all wrong...

Where some countries would use a solid white line (or double line such as the USA), the UK uses a dashed line.

There are 2 variants
- long lines with short gaps between them represent a hazard and you should not overtake unless the road is clear (like this -------)
-short lines with larger gaps between them are the other marking where there is no hazard (like this - - - - )

A double white line is used where you must not cross or straddle the lane.
So basically, an elongated, broken line, means pass with care...

UK:
Double solid: No overtaking
Elongated broken (skip) line: Overtake with care
Broken (skip) line: Overtaking permitted.

British Columbia, Canada
Double solid: No overtaking
Single solid: Overtake with care
Broken (skip) line: Overtaking permitted.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 01:25 AM   #1789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
Yes, but a ---- line might mean that you should'nt cross, but it doesn't say that you can't.
Indeed, doing something that is ill-advised must be made illegal. Horror of Horrors. Won't somebody think of the childruuuuuuun!

</sarcasm>

Niterider gets it spot on.

It's out of fear of a litigation culture that our roads haven't been getting safer as quickly as they used to. The idea of unsafe driving needing to be obviously illegal (rather than careless driving), with the boy that cried wolf effect, plus the unintended consequence that legal/not strongly advised against (like hatching wrt overtaking) driving was safe, because if it wasn't then it would be illegal. The tide has turned and some of the more overbearing nannying has been removed, which has brought about an increase in the decline of road fatality rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Double solid: No overtaking
Elongated broken (skip) line: Overtake with care
Broken (skip) line: Overtaking permitted.
Not quite, it's more like
Double solid - no overtaking permitted
Elongated broken lines - overtaking not advised
Broken lines - overtake with care
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Old October 29th, 2010, 01:31 AM   #1790
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Originally Posted by niterider View Post
As I said it instructs you to exercise caution and use your common sense.......If you cannot cross - there will be a double white line indicating so.
That's where the problem is. Common sense for one driver might mean a totally different concept for another. Plus a lot of people vehemently stand by their decisions if they know they'll be to blame for a crash or accident. Especially when their License is at risk!

Permitting over taking on hatchings is a little suicidal because a driver in the center turn lane would never expect someone to simply cross into their lane head on. That's where they got it wrong.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 01:37 AM   #1791
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Yes....UK roads are actually overly safety conscious - just look at our junctions. In other countries a turning lane may have a yield/give way instruction as you join another road, with a painted zebra pedestrian crossing perhaps too. In the UK its more likely you will always have a traffic light on the turning road, if the main intersection is light controlled...'just in case'. Equally, the pedestrian crossing wont be one where drivers stop, it will be controlled by the traffic light. And there will be metal fencing all around the road so the pedestrian must cross at the designated crossing point. And on a two way road there will be two staggered pedestrian crossings on the same street, with an island in the middle, just in case the pedestrian couldn't manage to cross the the whole street in one attempt.....over-engineering galore!
....that rant probably made no sense!
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Old October 30th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #1792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
Yes....UK roads are actually overly safety conscious - just look at our junctions. In other countries a turning lane may have a yield/give way instruction as you join another road, with a painted zebra pedestrian crossing perhaps too. In the UK its more likely you will always have a traffic light on the turning road, if the main intersection is light controlled...'just in case'. Equally, the pedestrian crossing wont be one where drivers stop, it will be controlled by the traffic light. And there will be metal fencing all around the road so the pedestrian must cross at the designated crossing point. And on a two way road there will be two staggered pedestrian crossings on the same street, with an island in the middle, just in case the pedestrian couldn't manage to cross the the whole street in one attempt.....over-engineering galore!
....that rant probably made no sense!
I agree, I do think that a lot of UK junctions are too complicated! Loads of little islands etc
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Old October 30th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #1793
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UK Road Markings pdf

Rules for UK road markings.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #1794
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Work to start on 50mph limit for A1 Western Bypass
10:45pm Wednesday 27th October 2010

Work to introduce a permanent 50mph speed limit on the A1 Western Bypass between Gateshead and Newcastle has been announced by the Highways Agency.

Changes to the road between Birtley Interchange and Blaydon Viaduct, near the Metrocentre, begins on Monday and will take place in four phases.

The work is expected to be completed in late November when new speed restriction signs are displayed on the completion of each phase.

Highways Agency project manager, John Sheerin, said: "This work will have a positive effect on traffic travelling along the Gateshead and Newcastle Western Bypass.

"The accident rate for this part of the A1 is double the national average.

"By reducing the speed limit we expect to reduce the number of accidents, improve the flow of traffic and improve journey time reliability along this section of the A1."

Evidence shows that reducing the speed on the bypass will minimise the 'stop/start' situations currently experienced on the road, and will help to reduce the number of accidents and delays caused by them.

When the reduced speed limit is in place, the Highways Agency will begin work to increase the lanes on the A1 northbound carriageway beneath Dunston Road overbridge from two to three narrow lanes.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new...estern_Bypass/

I'm not sure what to make of this. I use this road daily and the biggest problem is the amount of junctions and the small distances between each..
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Old October 30th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
Even the hatchings are broken also:



Why would they permit over taking on these?
It''s a very unique system compared to other countries.

I think the UK is the only country to use a system of hatched areas with broken lines to highlight an area which you can enter or cross for overtaking if it is necessary and safe.

Like other countries, if it hatched areas were bounded by solid white (or yellow) lines it would be illegal to enter that area.

Unfortunately, as the image shows, hatching is overused to separate traffic where a simple white line would do. The image shows a fairly neat example, but in mosts cases they are quite illogical and messy. In a lot of cases, they're not straight or symmetrical, as they widen and narrow for no reason on a straight parallel-width road. They look as if the road marking crews laying them out had done them on a Friday afternoon after a trip to the pub.

More and more hatching is cluttering up our roads with unecessary paint, much like the streets are getting cluttered with an overkill of signs.

Here's a good example of white line overkill:




First junction 'give-way/yield' markings have been deliberately projected beyond the kerbline. This means that the carriageways lanes suddenly narrow and widen. Second the lines have been shifted off centre to mark unecessary parking bays (where simply not providing yellow parking restriction lines would do). Third, the painted cycle lanes are pointless because they are marked with dashed 'advisory' lines which, similar to hatching you can drive on, and even park on in a vehicle (unlike a solid lined version).

Essentially, the whole thing looks 'pissed/drunk' but there are many examples which are far worse than this one in the UK.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #1796
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I have never seen it as bad as that before!
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Old October 30th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #1797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirfreelancealot View Post
Here's a good example of white line overkill:


Queensway, TVTE?
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Old October 30th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #1798
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Queensway, TVTE?
Yes it is! Been re-lined to death. I can't see what's wrong with just having a simple white line down the middle of the road.

It's a bit like marking your own sofa to set out where you, your partner and your cat should sit, or perhaps marking a nice stripe across your living room carpet to show the best way to the kitchen (in case you forget!)

...and we wonder where all our tax money goes?
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Old October 30th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #1799
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UK road markings are a bit OTT and sometimes pointless, it just adds confusion! It wastes paint and just makes the roads looks a mess!

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Old October 31st, 2010, 12:28 AM   #1800
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And its got WORSE in the last decade - anti skid surfacing on roads approaching most new ped crossings, roundabouts, or even laid in strips to look visually prominent and then to paint words like 'slow' on ....before a roundabout...as if it was optional.

I get the feeling much of the excessive marking is down to the blame culture - councils trying to engineer for every possible scenario, painting lines to reduce ambiguity over what is permitted in every possible instance (again yellow lines are an example of this - other countries don't feel the need to paint garish yellow lines on just about every bit fof urban road without falling apart...surely a more subtle solution would work here too?)
same for ped crossings ...do we really need to spendin 10's of thousands on light controlled crossings everywhere when zebras etc would do instead...at actual intersections rather than a 5minute detour around pedestrian fencing....it all sounds a bit ott and nannyish to me....not surprising then that such profliferation has rocketed during the term of a Labour government
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