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Old November 21st, 2010, 04:37 PM   #1821
ChrisZwolle
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Why are the tolls on the M6Toll so excessive for a flatland motorway? I don't think there are more expensive toll roads in Europe (excluding toll bridges and tunnels). 5 pounds for 20 miles! Who pays that?
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Old November 21st, 2010, 05:11 PM   #1822
Harry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi
You need to tick the box on the right labelled "Roadworks on" on Traffic England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Map Guy
CBRD still has it's 'Futures' section which details pretty much every large-ish scheme taking place on the main roads of the UK. It's updated by regular visitors too so there's new information on there practically every week.

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/futures/
Thanks for the answers, fellas.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 05:16 PM   #1823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why are the tolls on the M6Toll so excessive for a flatland motorway? I don't think there are more expensive toll roads in Europe (excluding toll bridges and tunnels). 5 pounds for 20 miles! Who pays that?
Very few people. Haulage firms who make the journey every day might do - but private motorists tend to avoid it. I head up that way a few times a year, and will only use the M6 Toll when I know that there are serious problems on the other route and on the A50 (if I'm heading north up the M1). Some have suggested that, if removing long distance traffic from the West Midlands conurbation was an objectove, it would have made more sense to toll the old road and make the new road free. As it is, most of the time the M6(T) is lying empty. Bit of a waste...because it is actually quite a nice road to drive on.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 05:22 PM   #1824
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sounds a lot like Lexus lanes:

Quote:
Tom Fanning, from Midlands Expressway said: "The toll road remains excellent value for money considering the benefit of bypassing the congestion on the M6."
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-11642180)
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Old November 21st, 2010, 05:28 PM   #1825
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I think the quote from the chap from Midlands Expressway tells you everything you need to know about the market they are targetting. Outside of peak times, you might save 5 mins by taking the M6 Toll...which makes it a luxury route for all but the very wealthiest.

The statement that 'the toll road remains excellent value for money considering the benefit of bypassing the congestion on the M6' is marketing bullshit and is simply not true most of the time. If the local population back in the 1990s knew then what people know now about usage patterns for this road, it simply would not have stood the test of public opinion. One day, when this road is de-tolled, it will form a valuable addition to the motorway network. It isn't doing that yet.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 05:38 PM   #1826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why are the tolls on the M6Toll so excessive for a flatland motorway? I don't think there are more expensive toll roads in Europe (excluding toll bridges and tunnels). 5 pounds for 20 miles! Who pays that?
The company running it (MEL) want to spend as little money as possible on upkeep of the road, given they've realised they won't be able to turn a profit on it.

Originally it was £3, which still had it pretty empty, with many of people paying the £3 doing so for the ability to head along the road at high speed. IIRC MEL tried to get the police to not enforce the limit often, so you could do 90-100mph with ease and there would be time savings on the longer toll road than on the old road.

I once joked that if you needed services heading down the M6 and you'd gone past Stafford, then it's almost worth the £3 to stop at Norton Canes (a nice service area) rather than Hilton Park (a not very nice one).

There's almost no lorries on the road - it seems to have been the plan from day 1 to make it very very expensive for them. It's mostly business people on expenses that use it, though people who live in Lichfield and Brownhills use it, and there's some local traffic.

This damage limitation idea, keeping costs down and getting a lot of money from each person that uses it might work as a business model, but it's not great for transport policy!

The M6 Toll has taught us one thing - tolled routes that have viable alternatives don't work. They plan on tolling the new Mersey crossing between Runcorn and Widnes, but they will also toll the old crossing as well.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 07:27 PM   #1827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why are the tolls on the M6Toll so excessive for a flatland motorway? I don't think there are more expensive toll roads in Europe (excluding toll bridges and tunnels). 5 pounds for 20 miles! Who pays that?
They are expensive because the government did it under contract to a private company which had already made the deal with the John Major government which had a mania for such schemes. A similar thing happened with the Skye toll bridge, which resulted in an existing ferry service being scrapped and carried huge tolls for both locals and tourists who needed to get to and from the mainland. The Scottish Parliament sorted that out, but the M6 Toll remains -- albeit, with an alternative route.

I've worked as a small truck driver and I've been told I won't be reimbursed for M6 toll charges, and any time my family has gone up that way since the M6 Toll has been built, we've taken the old M6 which isn't all that congested most of the time.

I have, however, been up the A38 between Spaghetti Junction and Lichfield which runs parallel to part of the M6 Toll. There are signs on the A38 which direct people onto the M6 Toll while the signpost to the next bit of the A38 points only to Sutton Coldfield, an obvious attempt to trick people into using the M6 Toll to screw money out of them (and the rate is the same, to my knowledge, as if you took the M6 Toll from end to end), rather than use a perfectly serviceable dual carriageway.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 07:58 PM   #1828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoJo View Post
There are signs on the A38 which direct people onto the M6 Toll while the signpost to the next bit of the A38 points only to Sutton Coldfield, an obvious attempt to trick people into using the M6 Toll to screw money out of them (and the rate is the same, to my knowledge, as if you took the M6 Toll from end to end), rather than use a perfectly serviceable dual carriageway.
The other signage that gets up my nose are the gantry notices on the M6 southbound on the approach to the split with the M6 Toll that read 'M6 Toll Clear'. That may be the case...but what they should also inform drivers of, in order that they can make an informed decision, is whether the M6 is also clear.

Of course 'M6 Clear' signs would not be permitted because Midlands Expressway Limited would complain that they were being robbed of revenue. All of which goes to show that the construction of this road was always going to be about serving the interests of the private consortium that built it, and not the interests of the tax paying motorist.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 08:32 PM   #1829
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I have been to Hindhead recently to check how is the construction of the tunnel going on. I must say, there is noticeable progress in works comparing to what I had seen in May this year.

May 2010.


November 2010.


I'll post some more pictures soon.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 10:27 PM   #1830
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The same bridge in May:
Quote:


in November:




Hazel grove junction before:
Quote:


and now








Looking to the South from the top of that junction.


In between Hazel Grove and Miss James footbridge.

May.
Quote:
November.







Last edited by piotr71; November 22nd, 2010 at 12:05 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 11:29 PM   #1831
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May.
Quote:




November.








Slip road connecting A3 with Hazel Grove junction in May.
Quote:
in November.


A3 then. Just one carriageway open to the traffic.
Quote:






Now both are perfectly paved and partly in use. Average speed cameras has been removed since then.






Last edited by piotr71; November 22nd, 2010 at 12:08 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 11:35 PM   #1832
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This is what A3 in Hindhead look like now.


Last edited by piotr71; November 22nd, 2010 at 12:02 AM.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 12:12 AM   #1833
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M27 nr Portsmouth.









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Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:11 AM   #1834
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Sorry Piotr I can't see your pics here in Aus.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 12:58 PM   #1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
Sorry Piotr I can't see your pics here in Aus.
Strange, I can see them just fine. Looks like the same random Picasa problem that affected my pictures on the Ireland thread. Does anyone know what might be causing this?

/csd
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 05:26 PM   #1836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csd View Post
Strange, I can see them just fine. Looks like the same random Picasa problem that affected my pictures on the Ireland thread. Does anyone know what might be causing this?

/csd
I use a mac. Would that make a difference?
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 06:49 PM   #1837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
I use a mac. Would that make a difference?
I don't think so.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:18 AM   #1838
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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I don't think so.
Yes, you're right, I use Macs too!

/csd
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:06 PM   #1839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csd View Post
Yes, you're right, I use Macs too!

/csd
Then I'm stumped! Usually I can see anyone's pics from any part of the world, so I've no idea what it's down to. I might just google it and find out about progress on the A3 that way.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:08 PM   #1840
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Sorry, I have no idea what may cause the problem. Some users just cannot see pisasa's pictures. I usually check visibility calling someone in Poland, Germany or England. None of the called people noticed any trouble with seeing pictures. Only trouble with reading images had place using IE, though once switched to another browser the problem disappeared. For that reason I am going to paste a link to my albums. Here you are:


Newest set.
http://picasaweb.google.com/10948007...unnel20101121#

Older one.
http://picasaweb.google.com/10948007...9207/Hindhead#

M27 just outside Portsmouth.
http://picasaweb.google.com/10948007...M27FromBushes#
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