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Old December 5th, 2010, 03:59 AM   #1861
PortoNuts
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Well, it depends on the energy source, it can be highly polluting and certainly more damaging than bulbs manufacturing.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #1862
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Not really: the electricity saved is a tiny amount - especially as a percentage of the whole - and North Western European coal power stations, thanks to Acid Rain alerting us to the dangers, generally have lots of things to capture most of the non-carbon nasties. There's also the move to cleaner gas-powered power stations, plus non-fossil fuel sources of electricity.

Banning Incandescent light bulbs is a token move, done for similar reasons to buying a Prius, with similar negative effects on the environment (though better on the carbon front than the Prius, which is worse than a Land Rover over it's lifespan - there's a slight improvement with compact fluorescents, AFAICS).

Because we've conflated environmentally friendly with one issue, we have these silly rules imposed on us.

Still, banning incandescent bulbs is not as silly as mandating new cars have Daytime Running Lights across the EU - no statistically significant savings on safety for those who are in cars with them (after all, if you can't see a car in normal daylight, you can't see a car with lights on in normal daylight!) and making motorbike users who use them to be seen better, more venerable as they've lost the thing that makes them stand out - the small savings on lorries/vans hitting cars is wiped out, and more, by increased big stuff hitting motorbikes.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #1863
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Didn't know that, I thought only lorries carrying highly dangerous materials had to turn their lights on during the day.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #1864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Still, banning incandescent bulbs is not as silly as mandating new cars have Daytime Running Lights across the EU - no statistically significant savings on safety for those who are in cars with them (after all, if you can't see a car in normal daylight, you can't see a car with lights on in normal daylight!) and making motorbike users who use them to be seen better, more venerable as they've lost the thing that makes them stand out - the small savings on lorries/vans hitting cars is wiped out, and more, by increased big stuff hitting motorbikes.
The amount of people I see every year driving around completely oblivious to their lights not being on makes me think this is a good idea. I do not know how you could not notice your dashboard being invisible. And that is in the UK, I am currently in Korea where I have even seen a police car and several buses without headlights on.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #1865
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Daytime Running Lights will exacerbate that problem - people will think the lesser daytime lights will be enough at twilight, rather than full dipped lights.

The way to deal with people not turning lights on when it gets dark is not to have lights on a bit all day long, but to actually police the law that says you should have lights on at night.

I don't think I've ever seen that many people not having lights on when it's actually dark. I've seen people without lights on when a large number of people have lights on, but it's actually fairly light, but that's about it.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #1866
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The problem is mainly at twilight, especially on Winter days when it's still not completely dark but lights on are required.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #1867
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I usually complain about road rules in Poland but one I wish to see in UK is requirement to drive with lights on, 24/7, 365 days a year.
Why? because it makes it simple for most people. You got in, start the engine, buckle up, switch lights on, drive.
Weather in UK is often quite bad and still I see plenty of drivers driving without lights. Sometimes in heavy rain and in near darkness. They just don't think about it.
My cousin who just came to visit me said it's crazy, he even asked if people here have some suicidal tendencies. Few months ago we were driving for a few days in north of England, in quite bad weather, and it was amazing how many people don't switch the lights on. Sometimes it was quite difficult to see cars coming.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 03:48 PM   #1868
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
because it makes it simple for most people. You got in, start the engine, buckle up, switch lights on, drive.
Weather in UK is often quite bad and still I see plenty of drivers driving without lights. Sometimes in heavy rain and in near darkness. They just don't think about it.
A lot of the new cars come with day time running lights anyway. I've never really seen people driving without headlights when its dark?
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Old December 7th, 2010, 04:57 PM   #1869
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My two cents:

I occasionally see people without lights on in urban areas with street lights. I always assume they just forgot. I once had a battery go weak on me in the country at night, so I can say from personal experience that it's not possible to drive on an unlighted road at night without knowing your lights aren't on! They didn't turn off, just dimmed. But it was still pretty bad, as I limped to the next place I could park so I could call AAA.

One thing about running lights is that it permits other drivers to tell when a car is moving or not. This is handy if you're on a street where people are allowed to park along the sides - I have a particular street in mind where I sometimes end up in the first parking spot up from the corner. So if the next thing I'm doing is turning right, I don't actually have to pull out of the parking spot into traffic but just go straight forward. If someone coming the other direction was about to make a left, it would be useful for them to be able to tell that I'm no longer parked but have become oncoming traffic.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 11:37 PM   #1870
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The Highway Code says that:

Quote:
"You must
-ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise

-use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30mph (48km/h) unless otherwise stated

-use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced

Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise "


It then goes on to say
Quote:
"You should also use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen"

Thus, in built up areas, it seems that headlights are not obligatory at all.

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; December 8th, 2010 at 12:54 AM.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #1871
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Wow must be a misprint. Because it surely must be that you have to use dipped headlights if it's streetlit and not full beams. I hope that's what they meant.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #1872
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It says you should, unlike the red "must", making it an advice.

I always thought that the law was that if streetlights were on, then headlights had to be on too.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #1873
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Yeah, that's got to be wrong. I'm pretty sure headlights have to be on from sunset onwards, no matter what type of road, or whether it has streetlights or not.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #1874
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Quote:
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Yeah, that's got to be wrong. I'm pretty sure headlights have to be on from sunset onwards, no matter what type of road, or whether it has streetlights or not.

On one occasion at night both my dipped headlights went at once, I had my side lights and foglights so I could see where I was going. An angry policeman flagged me down and told me to put the foglights off, but it was OK to drive with just the side lights on.

Personally I think it is ridiculous because some cars drive around at night with nothing but a couple of christmas tree lights at the front of their car. I imagine people just turn the switch until the dashboard lights up assuming that their lights are now on. I have no idea how they see where they are going. I also see people on a nightly basis driving around Glasgow with no lights on whatsoever, oblivious to all the oncoming traffic flashing full beams at them.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 06:17 PM   #1875
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Quote:
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Personally I think it is ridiculous because some cars drive around at night with nothing but a couple of christmas tree lights at the front of their car. I imagine people just turn the switch until the dashboard lights up assuming that their lights are now on. I have no idea how they see where they are going. I also see people on a nightly basis driving around Glasgow with no lights on whatsoever, oblivious to all the oncoming traffic flashing full beams at them.
I can't believe it sometimes here in Korea. There are small vans everywhere that seem to think one or two tiny orange lights on the front is fine anywhere with street lights. Other people drive around with foglights on, which give you a terrible view of the road while dazzling everyone around. Mopeds appear to thing no lights is perfectly fine, while jumping a red light on the wrong side of the road using one hand to hold a large box of takeaway food. On the rear one light is apparently fine even on a city maintained bus. Also is this the only place in the world where people turn their lights off while sat at traffic lights? The roads here boggle the mind.

Anyway back to the UK, I have had people flash me back when I have tried to get them to turn their lights on.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 03:37 PM   #1876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer81 View Post
On one occasion at night both my dipped headlights went at once, I had my side lights and foglights so I could see where I was going. An angry policeman flagged me down and told me to put the foglights off, but it was OK to drive with just the side lights on.
Because they think foglights blind other drivers in non-foggy weather. They don't bother me at all, they expect you to drive in the dark to please other drivers.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #1877
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A difference the human ear will not detect.... 3 dB is around the minimum (which is a speed reduction of 25 mph or a traffic reduction by 50%.)
The ear can detect one dB, that is what a dB is; the minimum the ear can detect.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #1878
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Yes, in perfect conditions like a silent room, not in your everyday street.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:54 PM   #1879
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Old December 11th, 2010, 03:54 PM   #1880
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