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Old December 27th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #1941
Uppsala
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I had used the M6/A74(M)/M74 since it was finished in 2008. And I still think this is one motorway with three numbers. It just change from M6 to A74(M) without any reasons and that's the same when it change number from A74(M) to M74. And I know that was a plan to renumber everything to just M6 to Glasgow. And it is still possible to renumber it all to M6.

But one problem of cause is the people around the motorway are used to those funny numbers. Maybe some people don’t know it's the same motorway if the renumber it all to M6.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 04:22 PM   #1942
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And I still think this is one motorway with three numbers.
Even though it's two motorways linked by a third one? Sure the third one was about making it a single motorway (and has three numbers). At least the M6 ends pretty much at the border, and the M74 and A74(M) are only different numbers for those in the know. So for most people you cross the border and the road changes number and that's it, so it's not a problem, given you get these transitions all over Europe.

I still don't get why the route south out of Glasgow/north from Preston gets so much, when the French Autoroute thread gets no moaning about all those motorways that meet end-to-end (A6/A7, A216/A26, A71/A75, A61/A62, A11/A844/A82...) - plus the French are much more happy with large scale renumberings/flitting numbers back and forth.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 09:36 PM   #1943
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Even though it's two motorways linked by a third one? Sure the third one was about making it a single motorway (and has three numbers). At least the M6 ends pretty much at the border, and the M74 and A74(M) are only different numbers for those in the know. So for most people you cross the border and the road changes number and that's it, so it's not a problem, given you get these transitions all over Europe.
Many motorways around here in Europe are built like "two motorways linked by a third one" and the result after that is one longer motorway. So M6/A74(M)/M74 is only one of a lot of European motorways with that sort of history.

The only difference is what number a motorway in that situation should have. And that is a little bit special to have those three numbers on one motorway. Most of the people don't notice that they are driving on an old motorway and then it's coming a new part and then a old part again. For most of the people it's only one motorway. But when we are talking about M6/A74(M)/M74, that's one motorway with three numbers and it looks like no reason why it change the numbers at the same motorway.

So renumber this motorway to M6 up to Glasgow should be the most logic. But it would also be more logical if they are numbered on the A74(M) to M74 if they nowwant a separate Scottish numbering system on a Scottish motorway.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #1944
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Many motorways around here in Europe are built like "two motorways linked by a third one" and the result after that is one longer motorway. So M6/A74(M)/M74 is only one of a lot of European motorways with that sort of history.

The only difference is what number a motorway in that situation should have. And that is a little bit special to have those three numbers on one motorway. Most of the people don't notice that they are driving on an old motorway and then it's coming a new part and then a old part again. For most of the people it's only one motorway. But when we are talking about M6/A74(M)/M74, that's one motorway with three numbers and it looks like no reason why it change the numbers at the same motorway.

So renumber this motorway to M6 up to Glasgow should be the most logic. But it would also be more logical if they are numbered on the A74(M) to M74 if they nowwant a separate Scottish numbering system on a Scottish motorway.
They're extending the M74 in Glasgow so that it meets the M8, and this is going to mess up the junction numbering, so there's potential for them to renumber the whole motorway M6 when the sort the numbering out. It's not likely to happen though.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #1945
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Many motorways around here in Europe are built like "two motorways linked by a third one" and the result after that is one longer motorway.
Really? AFAICT most of them were planned as one motorway, with section 1 and 3 being build before section 2, rather than having section 1 and section 3 being planned as totally different roads, never meant to be extended and then someone had the idea to link them afterwards.

Definitely doesn't happen in France - in fact, they'll even have motorways change number for no reason, but exit numbering carry on the same (A61-A62, A71-A75).
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So renumber this motorway to M6 up to Glasgow should be the most logic. But it would also be more logical if they are numbered on the A74(M) to M74 if they nowwant a separate Scottish numbering system on a Scottish motorway.
No, it's more logical than any renumbering scheme to not spend money on something so pointless as making a few ****-retentive people, most of which don't use the road much, if even get within 200 miles of it and wouldn't have any problem navigating with the current set up other than the normal problems of wanting to destroy things that don't conform to their little world. It's not logical to fix what ain't broke.

Perhaps you'd like to troll on the French thread, who have lots of more egregious examples, or lobby your own government to give E47 and E55 their right numbers which they didn't want as they (and Norway) didn't want to renumber them because of the cost, rather than singling out something that really isn't bad - one join is on the border (sort of) and the two numbers north of the border both share the same number, just different letters, which is also fine.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:27 PM   #1946
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What I don't get is why motorway speed limits were set at 70 and not 80.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:47 PM   #1947
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Yes, British motorways are on the low side of the speed limit spectrum in Europe, but they are on the higher end of the scale for non-motorways.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #1948
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What I don't get is why motorway speed limits were set at 70 and not 80.
Most of people drive in 80-90mph range even when highway police is around. It's probably one of the least respected laws in Europe.
It would be nice if they change it but it will never happen. With all the road safety idiots running campaigns against the speed no politician will ever touch the subject. For some of them (the campaigners) roads would be safest with 0 mph speed limit. British motorways are no worse than German, French or Italian. There could be higher limit.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #1949
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True. I think that the least respected rules in Europe are

a) (In the London region, especially the M25) Do not undertake.

b) (In Portugal) When you approach a village, slow down
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Old December 29th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #1950
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True. I think that the least respected rules in Europe are

a) (In the London region, especially the M25) Do not undertake.

b) (In Portugal) When you approach a village, slow down
When I visited home last year (the UK), I was kind of shocked at the standard of driving on the M25 (and London in general). It seems to have deteriorated drastically in the space of 7 years and driving on the M25 was quite a hair-raising experience, much akin to driving in South Florida, but not quite as bad! The biggest complaint I have - the tailgating. I don't remember it being that bad?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:01 PM   #1951
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I never really noticed tailgating much here, but thinking about it, there is a lot of tailgating, and at a pretty fast pace as well.

I think a lot of the tailgating is due to high levels of traffic combined with people not slowing down, thus producing "high speed congestion", which people say is common in Detroit.

On single carriageway city streets people also seem to be parking left right and centre, however they don't drive to fast but when they reach dual carriadgeways it's
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Old December 30th, 2010, 01:41 AM   #1952
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"high speed congestion", which people say is common in Detroit.
That sound dangerous!
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:20 AM   #1953
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I never really noticed tailgating much here, but thinking about it, there is a lot of tailgating, and at a pretty fast pace as well.

I think a lot of the tailgating is due to high levels of traffic combined with people not slowing down, thus producing "high speed congestion", which people say is common in Detroit.

On single carriageway city streets people also seem to be parking left right and centre, however they don't drive to fast but when they reach dual carriadgeways it's
I usually praise British drivers in general, but on my last visit, it seemed as if standards had slipped BIG TIME. I don't recall people overtaking (undertaking) from all lanes at such frequency and at such high speeds, tailgating and the weaving in/out, which is more common in the part of the world where I live now. I felt like people in general in London were driving a lot more aggressively than I remember, but it had been a while and I was struggling to get used to driving on the left again in an uncomfortable rental car. It seemed to improve once I got north of High Wycombe on the M40 LOL, as did my own driving.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #1954
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I usually praise British drivers in general, but on my last visit, it seemed as if standards had slipped BIG TIME. I don't recall people overtaking (undertaking) from all lanes at such frequency and at such high speeds, tailgating and the weaving in/out, which is more common in the part of the world where I live now. I felt like people in general in London were driving a lot more aggressively than I remember, but it had been a while and I was struggling to get used to driving on the left again in an uncomfortable rental car. It seemed to improve once I got north of High Wycombe on the M40 LOL, as did my own driving.
I live in north-west England, and whenever I drive down to the London area (I try to avoid it!) I've noticed that motorway driving is far, far worse than what I experience elsewhere in the country.

I'd guess it's just the volume of traffic in that area.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 01:39 PM   #1955
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The more saturated a road is, the more people tailgate. The Netherlands is, like Britain, an example of where roads exceed their design capacity on a large scale. A study found 70% of the drivers keep less than 2 seconds distance.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #1956
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I live in north-west England, and whenever I drive down to the London area (I try to avoid it!) I've noticed that motorway driving is far, far worse than what I experience elsewhere in the country.

I'd guess it's just the volume of traffic in that area.
+1 I find that driving standards on motorways tend to deteriorate beyond High Wycombe as the megalopolis approaches, it must be the extra congestion, but then I don't find the M6 around Birmingham as bad and that is usually just as crowded
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:06 PM   #1957
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And the Southern Coastal Motorway isn't the most needed by a long shot. Dover - Portsmouth is just as short (distance-wise) via the A3 and M25 (and Southampton is shorter via the M25). I don't think access to Brighton and infra-regional/local traffic along the coast is the countries most needed thing.
So a south coast motorway would take pressure of the southern M25? That has to be a good thing imo.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #1958
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So a south coast motorway would take pressure of the southern M25?
No it wouldn't - read what I said. The jist is that long distance traffic wouldn't use the south coast motorway as the M25 is shorter than the coastal route.
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That has to be a good thing imo.
It would be if it would actually do it, but it won't as the M25 is a shorter route for South East Kent to Hampshire. It doesn't need to be motorway and east of Brighton it doesn't have to be Dual Carriageway even - sure stretches can be, but a well-aligned single carriageway, with wide lanes and few roundabouts (and a lack of busy right turns), that bypasses towns with little development on the road itself (retail parks, garden centres, etc) will be plenty sufficient.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #1959
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But the M25 is often congested, I'd probably take a south coast alternative even if it was a couple of miles longer.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #1960
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But the M25 is often congested, I'd probably take a south coast alternative even if it was a couple of miles longer.
But where do you live? Anyone north of about Basingstoke would find a south coast motorway to Dover a completely unacceptable alternative (I'm assuming that we're considering an extension of the M27 eastwards as our south coast motorway). You'd have to drive due south on either the M3, A3 or from London the M/A23 to reach it, which is miles out of the way compared to taking a direct route along the M25, M26 and M20.

Even when you consider the combined populations of Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton, a grade seperated D2 would suffice between them with the M27 in the middle at the busiest part. There's a reason why the Department of Transport has never seriously considered a south coast motorway.
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