2020 Summer Olympics / Games of the XXXII Olympiad bids

[parcdesprinces]

Originally Posted by RobH

It's not a hindrance in any sense as past cities show

Indeed, and actually the majority of summer Olympics hosts weren't costal cities: Paris x2, St. Louis, London x3, Berlin, Rome, Mexico, Munich, Montréal, Moscow, Seoul, Atlanta, Beijing. (= 12 hosts out of 23).

[Alphaville]

Originally Posted by TRAM_space

Would be boring? Why, we have not shown very well that we do big events in our country?

Surely if we were given the opportunity, would surprise the world, as we have done in the past

Explain then what Madrid has that Barcelona didn't give the world in 1992? Or what any other major European city could give?

In your opinion, not only have no right to defend our bid, but neither have the right to be candidates. Then why keep pretending? the IOC hand-finger the host.

As I have specifically said in a previous post, I am not denying that the Spanish have a right to support their bid - you do, its expected - I'm just seeing a lot of Madrid supporters on these forums and others playing the "humble Madrid" card a bit too much.

[TRAM_space]

Originally Posted by Alphaville

Explain then what Madrid has that Barcelona didn't give the world in 1992? Or what any other major European city could give?



As I have specifically said in a previous post, I am not denying that the Spanish have a right to support their bid - you do, its expected - I'm just seeing a lot of Madrid supporters on these forums and others playing the "humble Madrid" card a bit too much.

What is Madrid that is not Barcelona?
They are two completely different cities, the first is a city of Castile and the other is Catalan. It is a city with its own traditions, which represents the rest of the country better than Barcelona.

Madrid is more European than Barcelona, ​​an aesthetic that is more like a city from the rest of the continent, Barcelona is Mediterranean (I'm from Barcelona). Com is a city many museums and shows, city ​​of royal palaces, a business capital, congresses and fairs.
The Madrid bid project has a solid, compact, connected, sustainable and better prepared than it was Barcelona 92. Spain has developed considerably in the last 20 years.
Madrid is a city much more modern than it was Barcelona in 1992, and it will be even more if it is granted the games, has 8 years to build skyscrapers, monuments, infraestructures and public spaces.

In resument, the main difference that Madrid on Barcelona's the spirit, experience and time.

I recommend you visit Madrid, will surprise a lot, maybe for you is a stranger who needs an event like this to come out of the shadow of Barcelona.

[Alphaville]

I understand that within Spain there are big difference between Madrid and Barcelona - but are these differences enough to dim the freshness of the 1992 Olympics in people's minds? Internally the difference between the two is big, externally it's not.

I still haven't been convinced of why Spain, above all other countries, deserves the Olympics again so soon.

The Olympics are rare, only every four years.

To put it in perspective of what is being asked - i'll be aged 36 in 2020. I'll have a living memory of two Spanish Olympics.

[TRAM_space]

Originally Posted by Alphaville

I understand that within Spain there are big difference between Madrid and Barcelona - but are these differences enough to dim the freshness of the 1992 Olympics in people's minds? Internally the difference between the two is big, externally it's not.

I still haven't been convinced of why Spain, above all other countries, deserves the Olympics again so soon.

The Olympics are rare, only every four years.

To put it in perspective of what is being asked - i'll be aged 36 in 2020. I'll have a living memory of two Spanish Olympics.

Yes it has been convinced, I will remind you that we have been 3rd in "Singapore 2005" and 2nd in the "Copenhagen 2009". The proximity of the Barcelona Olympics was not a problem for 2012, with 20 years apart, it was not for 2016, with 24, and will not be in 2020 when almost 30 years have elapsed.

[Alphaville]

Originally Posted by TRAM_space

Yes it has been convinced, I will remind you that we have been 3rd in "Singapore 2005" and 2nd in the "Copenhagen 2009". The proximity of the Barcelona Olympics was not a problem for 2012, with 20 years apart, it was not for 2016, with 24, and will not be in 2020 when almost 30 years have elapsed.

I am well aware of how Madrid placed in 2012 and 2016. But Rio beat Madrid 32-66 (if this doesn't expose the IOC's thoughts on Madrid, then I'm not sure what does); and 2012 Madrid was a strategic vote - it was never going to win. And with Tokyo and Istanbul for 2020, I'm just as doubtful, especially with Spain's dire financial situation that it will get it across the line. Economic benefits or not, I just cannot understand why the Spanish continue to waste their money on this when the odds are constantly against them? It's this type of ridiculous spending thats probably got them into this situation.

But again, why does Spain, above all, deserve the Olympics a second time in only 28 years?

[GEwinnen]

Originally Posted by Alphaville

It's looking increasingly more likely Germany will put its efforts towards mounting a Munich bid for the 2022 Olympic Winter Games.

Munich won't bid for the 2022 Winter Games! Berlin is planning a bid for 2024, if the games 2020 go to Tokyo!

But again, why does Spain, above all, deserve the Olympics a second time in only 28 years?

+1 !!!!!

It is an insolence to bid again in such a short period of time!

I recommend you visit Madrid, will surprise a lot, maybe for you is a stranger who needs an event like this to come out of the shadow of Barcelona.

I guess Barcelona has much more international visitors than Madrid!
But the question of the 2020 games is not the difference between Madrid and Barcelona, it is between Spain and many, many countries woh had not hosted the games before or for a long period of time! Turkey with Istanbul (Istanbul must be an exciting city!) deserves it even more than Spain with Madrid.


__________________

[DimitriB]

I hope Istanbul will get it, but I'm afraid that Turkey would lose the Euro 2020 bid (if they would get the olympics) and they are the best candidate to host the Euro 2020 Championship.

Tokyo is a good host city, but they already had the olympics.
Madrid didn't host the olympics, but 2 European city's in that short time (London 2012 - Madrid 2020), so it's doubtful if they will get it.

[TRAM_space]

Originally Posted by Alphaville

I am well aware of how Madrid placed in 2012 and 2016. But Rio beat Madrid 32-66 (if this doesn't expose the IOC's thoughts on Madrid, then I'm not sure what does); and 2012 Madrid was a strategic vote - it was never going to win. And with Tokyo and Istanbul for 2020, I'm just as doubtful, especially with Spain's dire financial situation that it will get it across the line. Economic benefits or not, I just cannot understand why the Spanish continue to waste their money on this when the odds are constantly against them? It's this type of ridiculous spending thats probably got them into this situation.

But again, why does Spain, above all, deserve the Olympics a second time in only 28 years?

Do not give us lessons on how to spend our money, especially if they have not said anything about Rio de Janeiro and Beijing, where the budget of the Olympics could have been dedicated to helping disadvantaged people. Remember that although Spain are in crisis, is a developed country where there are far fewer cases of poverty than in other cities who have been elected and who are running as candidates.

Neither have much in mind that Madrid is one of the locomotives are pulling the country on the subject of the economy and employment. The capital is growing much at the expense of people from other regions, yet still with a much lower unemployment rate and continues to generate employment.

Originally Posted by GEwinnen

Munich won't bid for the 2022 Winter Games! Berlin is planning a bid for 2024, if the games 2020 go to Tokyo!



+1 !!!!!

It is an insolence to bid again in such a short period of time!



I guess Barcelona has much more international visitors than Madrid!
But the question of the 2020 games is not the difference between Madrid and Barcelona, it is between Spain and many, many countries woh had not hosted the games before or for a long period of time! Turkey with Istanbul (Istanbul must be an exciting city!) deserves it even more than Spain with Madrid.


__________________

I invite you to learn that Madrid did not give me the figures of tourism that I know. I was born in Barcelona and I have lived 13 years, including the year of the games.

Why Istanbul deserves? Why do build some infrastructure to be the best candidate? That's in your hand, are an emerging economy that can do a project similar to Beijing 2008.
I've seen his record and see that there are undesirable aspects such as stadiums scattered, the Olympic Stadium from the center of the city or a plan to extend subway lines that do not allow the connection of the Olympic venues in a fast and easy.

I do not understand how they keep criticizing Madrid, and yet speak of things that the IOC has already rejected before other cities. I think we should not criticize so much about and praise both to others.

The 3 candidates have their weaknesses and strengths. I wish there was a little more objectivity for all.

[Knitemplar]

Originally Posted by TRAM_space

Do not give us lessons on how to spend our money, especially if they have not said anything about Rio de Janeiro and Beijing, where the budget of the Olympics could have been dedicated to helping disadvantaged people. Remember that although Spain are in crisis, is a developed country where there are far fewer cases of poverty than in other cities who have been elected and who are running as candidates.

Neither have much in mind that Madrid is one of the locomotives are pulling the country on the subject of the economy and employment. The capital is growing much at the expense of people from other regions, yet still with a much lower unemployment rate and continues to generate employment.



I invite you to learn that Madrid did not give me the figures of tourism that I know. I was born in Barcelona and I have lived 13 years, including the year of the games.

Why Istanbul deserves? Why do build some infrastructure to be the best candidate? That's in your hand, are an emerging economy that can do a project similar to Beijing 2008.
I've seen his record and see that there are undesirable aspects such as stadiums scattered, the Olympic Stadium from the center of the city or a plan to extend subway lines that do not allow the connection of the Olympic venues in a fast and easy.

I do not understand how they keep criticizing Madrid, and yet speak of things that the IOC has already rejected before other cities. I think we should not criticize so much about and praise both to others.

The 3 candidates have their weaknesses and strengths. I wish there was a little more objectivity for all.

It's the arrogant tone of your replies that will do you in. Don't you see that in the last 2 votes (when old man Samaranch was still alive), Madrid barely made 1/3rd of the vote.

And remember, even JAS, Sr., himself was wary about the last 2 candidacies of Madrid. He told the Spanish NOC that it was too soon; but his advice was ignored. Well, then that is Spain's tragedy. Can't listen to wise words from someone on their side who would know.

[TRAM_space]

Originally Posted by Knitemplar

It's the arrogant tone of your replies that will do you in. Don't you see that in the last 2 votes (when old man Samaranch was still alive), Madrid barely made 1/3rd of the vote.

And remember, even JAS, Sr., himself was wary about the last 2 candidacies of Madrid. He told the Spanish NOC that it was too soon; but his advice was ignored. Well, then that is Spain's tragedy. Can't listen to wise words from someone on their side who would know.

Sorry if passed an arrogant tone, do not speak English well and do not distinguish the tone.
I defend only one candidate that you are constantly attacking. What do you think arrogant is that there are people here saying that we we present is insolent, that no one complains.

We could also speak of the votes of Istanbul and Tokyo in past editions.

[GYEvanEFR]

IMO, 2012 Summer Olympiad is going to be held in Europe following 2014 Winter Olympiad, then 2016 Summer Olympiad in Brazil & 2018 Winter Olympiad in Asia. I think Madrid's Bid is "Hazardous" for now. I think the finale will be between Tokyo & Istanbul, although I much pleased with all their plan.
Ironic, Madrid's Bid is "well-prepared", and Istanbul's Bid is "new at all", but Tokyo is "much pleasure of almost all". I'm not surprised Tokyo could be tied with Madrid. What a "hot battle"?!

[Thanial]

so gutted to see Baku miss the mark, but I suppose it'll allow them to focus on their Euro bid, that I actually think could be successful. I'd like to see Istanbul win this, they've bidded so many times before and never made it, and they are fast developing. I've got nothing against the Tokyo bid other than that I'd like to see somewhere different take on the games.

Either way, I'd favour both the Istanbul and Tokyo bids over Madrid's any day. Completing wrong for them to be bidding in the first place considering their economic condition! Rome was wise to withdraw, and Spain's condition is worse than theirs. Spain is a really nice country, but bidding when there on the verge of needing a bailout, and with their banking system about to collapse, probably wasn't the wisest time to bid. No offense to anyone who is Spanish by the way!

[Gaudi-RM]

I don't know why, but a lot of members thiks Spain is Greece

[Knitemplar]

Originally Posted by Gaudi-RM

I don't know why, but a lot of members thiks Spain is Greece

Well, because they're both Mediterranean countries. Greece's economy was already borderline in 2003-4 when it staged those Games. Spain has very high unemployment--not quite bankrupt--but still...if you don't heed the signs of an economy going south, and then you still give it some funds-sucking extravaganza without learning from the previous example, then indeed you deserve to be where you're at.

What did the philospher Santayana say: Unless you learn from the lessons of the past, you are doomed to repeat its mistakes. Capisce?

[koolio]

I think the blame should be placed on IOC for playing with Spain's desire to host the Olympics even though everyone knows their fragile financial situation.

[RobH]

I think the blame should be placed on IOC for playing with Spain's desire to host the Olympics even though everyone knows their fragile financial situation.

This thread's getting rather silly now.

Why blame the IOC? They're not babysitters for the Spanish government. If Spain puts forward a competent technical bid (which they always do) and the government and people are behind it, who are the IOC to say they know better than the Spanish government what's best for the country?

The shortlisting is about the technical abilities of the bids to meet the IOC's requirements. Madrid does that and then some. Of course they should be shortlisted. It's Spain's own decision to keep bidding, nobody is forcing them to.

[OriK]

I'm not offended Thanial but I have to say that I'm seeing a lot of misunderstandings about the economic situation in Spain (and also Italy) and with your point of view it's understandable that you don't want Madrid to host the 2020 olympics.

For example, our public debt is 68.50% of the GDP... of course is not a good number but in Germany it is 81.2%, in France is 85.8% ... and in the other side in Italy it is 120.1%, in Greece it is 144.9% and in Ireland it is 108.2%. Our main problem is that the private sector is really depressed (in part also because the private debt that is really a problem) and the olympics would help to reactivate the private sector so it really doesn't matters if Spain looses money with this if it helps to reactivate the economy.

[Jim856796]

Thing is, if a candidate city's bid has low public support, the bid is in trouble and therefore likely to be eliminated first in the round of voting.

[Alphaville]

Originally Posted by Jim856796

Thing is, if a candidate city's bid has low public support, the bid is in trouble and therefore likely to be eliminated first in the round of voting.

This is completely untrue.