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Old July 15th, 2007, 05:33 PM   #1
brum2003
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Digbeth

there is a campaign to stop future residential development in Digbeth, it seem that the proposal seen on here for deritend bridge rests on the Irish community selling the Irish Centre to developers

in the meantime the Spotted dog has had a noise abatement order served by residents from Abacus and is now stirring things up regards the future of all Irish pubs in the area. It seems he may have been unreasonable with levels of music late at night, also his pub has no double glazing which would have also helped the situation

the crux seems that the owner of the spotted dog feels its his right to play loud music 24/7 because he was first and is stirring up the 'local' community(non of whom live in digbeth anyway) to fight residential development

it seems to be the same old argument which is amazing considering lots of cities around the world seem to happily have clubs/bars and apartments all living quite happily next to each other in vibrant city centres

maybe the Irish bars and the residents should form a lobbying instead of fighting each other, come to agreements on acceptable levels of noise at certain times and start to lobby for improvements to the area. This has happened in the gay village area

It would be a shame if a few vocal and IMO selfish pub landlords could condemn this area of Birmingham to its current shameful semi derelict state for years to come.

It remind me of the Fiddle and Bone incident, where the pub was served with many orders and finally went bust, when small changes to the way the pub was run by its owners could have made a difference, placated the residents and created a happy ending.....the building is still derelict now

Digbeth high street is a disgrace and the area is pityful example of what Birmingham has to offer as you come from the airport
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Old July 15th, 2007, 05:34 PM   #2
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Forgot to say the campaign is backed by the evening mail of all people !!!
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Old July 15th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #3
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Is that the same evening mail which campaigned to save the fiddle & bone which was forced to close under similar cirsumstances??

I'm sorry, but do we not have any common fucking sense in this country anymore?

[MartinG]

Hmm. I want a quiet life, where I'm not going to get disturbed by any noise. So, I'm going to buy an appartment in the middle of the second biggest city in the country, which is also next to a renound pub which has a reputation for playing live music.

Oh! It's really noisey here. Nobody told me it would be noisey in the middle of a city next to a pub! I'm going to sue somebody!

Bunch of fucking dumbarsed imbecilles.

[/MartinG]
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Old July 15th, 2007, 11:01 PM   #4
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the mail loves a bandwagon.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #5
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A similar thing is happening in the gay village. A document was updated on the Unity House development, that said Crosby have paid for and installed noise reducers in the Nightingale to deal with the noise issues. However management of the Gale have refused to switch them on and have even refused to hold discussions about ways to reduce noise levels.

Crosby then also said their (the Gale's) licence stated it basically should not cause any nuisance to the surrounding area, with Crosby stating that they believe this proves they're violating their licence. So I could possibly see Crosby making an official complaint about how unreasonable management is stopping development in the area - which I could see shutting down or limiting the Gale - which in this case would be their own fault.

It does seem outside of Broad Street, none of our entertainment districts really have a clue about how to actually do business that in the long term would benefit them. Instead they dig their heels in and then cry if they're shut down.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #6
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I work in the Spotted Dog which has recently been issued with a
Noise Abatement Notice.

Birmingham is a vibrant and cosmopolitan city and has one of the largest Irish communities in the UK. The Digbeth area is increasingly becoming a fashionable place to live and work with many of the new homeowners moving in precisely because of the Digbeth scene.

I welcome further regeneration in the Digbeth / Deritend area however people purchasing apartments in the Irish quarter must not be allowed to destroy and erode that area. And those wishing to live in the centre of UK's second city must be aware that cities produce noise!

The planning department of the City Council must recognise the valuable contribution the Irish community plays in this city and support one of the UK's most vibrant Irish quarters. An Irish quarter devoid of traditional Irish pubs supporting traditional irish music and dance is not an Irish quarter at all. Hastilly thrown up apartments in the hope that they will act as a catalyst for further regeneration must never be allowed to destroy local communities. In the case of Abacus, none of the windows have double or tertiary glazing and it would seem developers have not taken into account its close proximity to a live music venue.

Digbeth has for centuries been an industrial area. Digbeth is now changing and residents moving into the area must be sensitive to the current cultural scene, the Irish community and the livelihoods of those working in the area.

Finally, it should be noted on a more personal level that The Spotted Dog is a fantastic family run pub which, over the years has raised thousands of pounds for local charities, most notably the Acorns Childrens hospice.

This debate has far reaching implications. Some of Birminghams finest pubs are in jeopardy. The Spotted Dog, The Rainbow, The Adam and Eve etc etc. One of Birmingham's largest festivals, The St. Patricks Festival and Parade are also in jeopardy. Please support the Irish Quarter.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #7
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Its not solely an Irish Quarter and indeed I would hope its not a 'ghetto'. Digbeth is such a big area encompassing a few other nationalities and urban landscapes that it needs to be looked at as lots of different sub-zones. That way you could create buffers between loud music and residential.

On the council recognising the Irish community, I think the council needs to take stock of the internationalisation and other group diversity of Birmingham and support that such as the gay community, Pakistani, Polish, Yemenese, Somalian and create a mini world in one city. When the council finds itself governing a ethnic majority city and its makeup is predominately white and we have rings of ethnicity around the city then its crucial we engage and regenerate using all communities.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #8
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Does this kind of shit go on in Manchester or does the city regard itself so much of a musical city that these things are worked out over coffee biscuits and smiles?

I kind of empathise with the Spotted Dog, it's hard enough to make these places work and Brum's music venues are seriously struggling from what I've seen recently... this is just another nail in the coffin for live music in the city IMO, surely the council can sit everyone down and reach a compromise?
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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remfan View Post
I work in the Spotted Dog which has recently been issued with a
Noise Abatement Notice.

Birmingham is a vibrant and cosmopolitan city and has one of the largest Irish communities in the UK. The Digbeth area is increasingly becoming a fashionable place to live and work with many of the new homeowners moving in precisely because of the Digbeth scene.

I welcome further regeneration in the Digbeth / Deritend area however people purchasing apartments in the Irish quarter must not be allowed to destroy and erode that area. And those wishing to live in the centre of UK's second city must be aware that cities produce noise!

The planning department of the City Council must recognise the valuable contribution the Irish community plays in this city and support one of the UK's most vibrant Irish quarters. An Irish quarter devoid of traditional Irish pubs supporting traditional irish music and dance is not an Irish quarter at all. Hastilly thrown up apartments in the hope that they will act as a catalyst for further regeneration must never be allowed to destroy local communities. In the case of Abacus, none of the windows have double or tertiary glazing and it would seem developers have not taken into account its close proximity to a live music venue.

Digbeth has for centuries been an industrial area. Digbeth is now changing and residents moving into the area must be sensitive to the current cultural scene, the Irish community and the livelihoods of those working in the area.

Finally, it should be noted on a more personal level that The Spotted Dog is a fantastic family run pub which, over the years has raised thousands of pounds for local charities, most notably the Acorns Childrens hospice.

This debate has far reaching implications. Some of Birminghams finest pubs are in jeopardy. The Spotted Dog, The Rainbow, The Adam and Eve etc etc. One of Birmingham's largest festivals, The St. Patricks Festival and Parade are also in jeopardy. Please support the Irish Quarter.
surely the pub must realise it now has neighbours

why when i travel abroad do I not see this kind of conflict, the bars insulate themselves also ! don't have loud music outside after 11pm, have two entrance doors like an airlock to limit noise spilling out....why is Birmingham so different to Paris, Barcelona etc cities it tries to mimic

it needs the residents and pub landlords to get together and work together or as history shows the residents will win !!

if the owners of the spotted god and so on want an example, go and speak to traders in the gay village, they are now working in conjunction with residents for the benefit of the area, yes there are some self imposed restriction on noise, but the bars are not suffering
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Old July 16th, 2007, 04:32 PM   #10
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It would be a travesty if the gale lost its license because homophobic morons were offended by same sex couples holding hands on a saturday night. Equally, it should be a travesty for developers to throw up new apartments with no concern for local businesses.

I am not suggesting the ethnic make up of an area should be the sole concern of city council planners. However, some sensitivity should be employed when analysing the effect new developments would have on existing residents and businesses.

The Birmingham gay village is special because of the businesses present and the sense of community. This is similar to the Irish quarter and although neither the Irish quarter or the gay village is a ghetto they both provide various services to each community and this should be respected and must not be eroded by developers trying to make a quick buck.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remfan View Post
It would be a travesty if the gale lost its license because homophobic morons were offended by same sex couples holding hands on a saturday night.
No-one has said that its homophobia.

A lot of gay people live in southside. The problem is noise and like has been said before - you move to the area because of its reputation, cultural attraction etc and then moan about same things that brought you there. You can't have it all ways.

But to support other comments, if people want a 24hr city then all parties such as those who work, enjoy, and live there need to work out means such as sound proofing and other mechanisms to prevent intrusion into one anothers activities, be that sleeping or having a good time.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 05:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remfan View Post
It would be a travesty if the gale lost its license because homophobic morons were offended by same sex couples holding hands on a saturday night. Equally, it should be a travesty for developers to throw up new apartments with no concern for local businesses.

I am not suggesting the ethnic make up of an area should be the sole concern of city council planners. However, some sensitivity should be employed when analysing the effect new developments would have on existing residents and businesses.

The Birmingham gay village is special because of the businesses present and the sense of community. This is similar to the Irish quarter and although neither the Irish quarter or the gay village is a ghetto they both provide various services to each community and this should be respected and must not be eroded by developers trying to make a quick buck.
Why the hell did the homophobia line come from? Besides which, I think the residents in the area mostly have a problem with prancing queens screeching through the streets when they're on a come-down at 6am, rather than hand holding.

Why is the developer always the big bad one? In this case the Gale management has refused to even discuss ways to mitigate the noise they create, which seems to be a breach of their license. If anything did happen to them, they brought it on themselves.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShavenHeaden View Post
Why the hell did the homophobia line come from? Besides which, I think the residents in the area mostly have a problem with prancing queens screeching through the streets when they're on a come-down at 6am, rather than hand holding.

Why is the developer always the big bad one? In this case the Gale management has refused to even discuss ways to mitigate the noise they create, which seems to be a breach of their license. If anything did happen to them, they brought it on themselves.
Was there really any need to refer to gay people as prancing queens!!! Its very insulting and just proves the level of homophobia in this country!! I don't see why the gay scene should have to suffer........ it has been there a lot longer than most of the residents in the area

Exactly the same for the irish quarter IMO
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Old July 16th, 2007, 11:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLOGIKAL View Post
Was there really any need to refer to gay people as prancing queens!!! Its very insulting and just proves the level of homophobia in this country!! I don't see why the gay scene should have to suffer........ it has been there a lot longer than most of the residents in the area

Exactly the same for the irish quarter IMO
Prancing Queens, I love it and at 6am with a bottle of Vodka I may turn into one
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Old July 17th, 2007, 12:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLOGIKAL View Post
Was there really any need to refer to gay people as prancing queens!!! Its very insulting and just proves the level of homophobia in this country!! I don't see why the gay scene should have to suffer........ it has been there a lot longer than most of the residents in the area

Exactly the same for the irish quarter IMO
Yes, I'm a homophobic gay man. *rolls eyes*

Okay, go stand outside the Gale when it kicks out and if you do not see a fair amount of said prancing queens I will apologise. But I won't, because you will.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 03:27 PM   #16
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"Prancing queens aside for a moment" but he does have a point. The same goes for Godskitchen/Air Nightclub and the custard factory if all the new developments are built, as on a saturday night and at 6am in the morning, these venues are full of Prancing straight and gay people on a massive come down, and i know i am one of them, LOL
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Old July 17th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #17
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The clubs will have to work with police and others to try and make disruption a minimum.
Student unions often hand out lollies which keeps students quiet for a short while when their leaving after nights in student bars.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 05:42 PM   #18
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The clubs will have to work with police and others to try and make disruption a minimum.
Student unions often hand out lollies which keeps students quiet for a short while when their leaving after nights in student bars.
Which I think was meant to be my original point - that in these cases management of these venues don't seem interested in working with anyone to overcome noise issues, and instead take a "we were here first" stance which could leave large areas of Birmingham without development. Surely there's no room for such short-sighted insularity in a city such as ours?
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Old July 17th, 2007, 06:03 PM   #19
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as soon as the locals in all of these areas figure out that new residence do not want to destroy the character of the area but just want to have a decent standard of living instead of jumping on the defensive, the better for all involed.

the reason people live there is for their character so why the hell would we want to get rid of it. its just the tonness of local places just assume that everyone is a nimby and so fights against it. the more people an area can attract, the more customers and the healthier a place becomes"!
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Old July 19th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #20
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Hi remfan, and welcome (although you had a bit if a baptism of fire )

There is a middle way to all of this, and the Spotted Dog are just a bit peeved and also sounding a warning, because it is entirely possible that new residential areas can drive a pub out of business.

Interestingly, the Fiddle & Bone was not as clear cut as it would seem. The law doesn't have a problem with noise creation, provided it is below a certain level and within certain hours. I used to drink in the F&B and many people who moved in near it cited the pub as one of the reasons they moved there.

However, the council paid a visit after complaints and found that the pub exceeded LEGAL noise levels even with the doors closed. The owners couldn't afford the noise attentuation given it was an old building so they left.

Now if the Spotted Dog is in a similar situation, they they can't really complain. They should count themselves fortunate that they haven't had to do anything so far. If they are not at fault, then they do not have anything to worry about as there are no legal powers.

What is more likely (if they are legal) is that it is a problem with either a) people congregating whilst smoking (and maybe leaving the door open) or b) noise when leaving the pub. The former is easier to sort, the latter not so, but that is a behavioural problem that almost every pub faces, and remember this is a pub and not a nightclub.
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