Digbeth

[brum2003]

there is a campaign to stop future residential development in Digbeth, it seem that the proposal seen on here for deritend bridge rests on the Irish community selling the Irish Centre to developers

in the meantime the Spotted dog has had a noise abatement order served by residents from Abacus and is now stirring things up regards the future of all Irish pubs in the area. It seems he may have been unreasonable with levels of music late at night, also his pub has no double glazing which would have also helped the situation

the crux seems that the owner of the spotted dog feels its his right to play loud music 24/7 because he was first and is stirring up the 'local' community(non of whom live in digbeth anyway) to fight residential development

it seems to be the same old argument which is amazing considering lots of cities around the world seem to happily have clubs/bars and apartments all living quite happily next to each other in vibrant city centres

maybe the Irish bars and the residents should form a lobbying instead of fighting each other, come to agreements on acceptable levels of noise at certain times and start to lobby for improvements to the area. This has happened in the gay village area

It would be a shame if a few vocal and IMO selfish pub landlords could condemn this area of Birmingham to its current shameful semi derelict state for years to come.

It remind me of the Fiddle and Bone incident, where the pub was served with many orders and finally went bust, when small changes to the way the pub was run by its owners could have made a difference, placated the residents and created a happy ending.....the building is still derelict now

Digbeth high street is a disgrace and the area is pityful example of what Birmingham has to offer as you come from the airport

[brum2003]

Forgot to say the campaign is backed by the evening mail of all people !!!

[blahblah]

Is that the same evening mail which campaigned to save the fiddle & bone which was forced to close under similar cirsumstances??

I'm sorry, but do we not have any common fucking sense in this country anymore?

[MartinG]

Hmm. I want a quiet life, where I'm not going to get disturbed by any noise. So, I'm going to buy an appartment in the middle of the second biggest city in the country, which is also next to a renound pub which has a reputation for playing live music.

Oh! It's really noisey here. Nobody told me it would be noisey in the middle of a city next to a pub! I'm going to sue somebody!

Bunch of fucking dumbarsed imbecilles.

[/MartinG]

[mk61]

the mail loves a bandwagon.

[ShavenHeaden]

A similar thing is happening in the gay village. A document was updated on the Unity House development, that said Crosby have paid for and installed noise reducers in the Nightingale to deal with the noise issues. However management of the Gale have refused to switch them on and have even refused to hold discussions about ways to reduce noise levels.

Crosby then also said their (the Gale's) licence stated it basically should not cause any nuisance to the surrounding area, with Crosby stating that they believe this proves they're violating their licence. So I could possibly see Crosby making an official complaint about how unreasonable management is stopping development in the area - which I could see shutting down or limiting the Gale - which in this case would be their own fault.

It does seem outside of Broad Street, none of our entertainment districts really have a clue about how to actually do business that in the long term would benefit them. Instead they dig their heels in and then cry if they're shut down.

[remfan]

I work in the Spotted Dog which has recently been issued with a
Noise Abatement Notice.

Birmingham is a vibrant and cosmopolitan city and has one of the largest Irish communities in the UK. The Digbeth area is increasingly becoming a fashionable place to live and work with many of the new homeowners moving in precisely because of the Digbeth scene.

I welcome further regeneration in the Digbeth / Deritend area however people purchasing apartments in the Irish quarter must not be allowed to destroy and erode that area. And those wishing to live in the centre of UK's second city must be aware that cities produce noise!

The planning department of the City Council must recognise the valuable contribution the Irish community plays in this city and support one of the UK's most vibrant Irish quarters. An Irish quarter devoid of traditional Irish pubs supporting traditional irish music and dance is not an Irish quarter at all. Hastilly thrown up apartments in the hope that they will act as a catalyst for further regeneration must never be allowed to destroy local communities. In the case of Abacus, none of the windows have double or tertiary glazing and it would seem developers have not taken into account its close proximity to a live music venue.

Digbeth has for centuries been an industrial area. Digbeth is now changing and residents moving into the area must be sensitive to the current cultural scene, the Irish community and the livelihoods of those working in the area.

Finally, it should be noted on a more personal level that The Spotted Dog is a fantastic family run pub which, over the years has raised thousands of pounds for local charities, most notably the Acorns Childrens hospice.

This debate has far reaching implications. Some of Birminghams finest pubs are in jeopardy. The Spotted Dog, The Rainbow, The Adam and Eve etc etc. One of Birmingham's largest festivals, The St. Patricks Festival and Parade are also in jeopardy. Please support the Irish Quarter.

[feltip]

Its not solely an Irish Quarter and indeed I would hope its not a 'ghetto'. Digbeth is such a big area encompassing a few other nationalities and urban landscapes that it needs to be looked at as lots of different sub-zones. That way you could create buffers between loud music and residential.

On the council recognising the Irish community, I think the council needs to take stock of the internationalisation and other group diversity of Birmingham and support that such as the gay community, Pakistani, Polish, Yemenese, Somalian and create a mini world in one city. When the council finds itself governing a ethnic majority city and its makeup is predominately white and we have rings of ethnicity around the city then its crucial we engage and regenerate using all communities.

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

Does this kind of shit go on in Manchester or does the city regard itself so much of a musical city that these things are worked out over coffee biscuits and smiles?

I kind of empathise with the Spotted Dog, it's hard enough to make these places work and Brum's music venues are seriously struggling from what I've seen recently... this is just another nail in the coffin for live music in the city IMO, surely the council can sit everyone down and reach a compromise?

[feltip]

The clubs will have to work with police and others to try and make disruption a minimum.
Student unions often hand out lollies which keeps students quiet for a short while when their leaving after nights in student bars.

[ShavenHeaden]

Originally Posted by feltip

The clubs will have to work with police and others to try and make disruption a minimum.
Student unions often hand out lollies which keeps students quiet for a short while when their leaving after nights in student bars.

Which I think was meant to be my original point - that in these cases management of these venues don't seem interested in working with anyone to overcome noise issues, and instead take a "we were here first" stance which could leave large areas of Birmingham without development. Surely there's no room for such short-sighted insularity in a city such as ours?

[woodhousen]

as soon as the locals in all of these areas figure out that new residence do not want to destroy the character of the area but just want to have a decent standard of living instead of jumping on the defensive, the better for all involed.

the reason people live there is for their character so why the hell would we want to get rid of it. its just the tonness of local places just assume that everyone is a nimby and so fights against it. the more people an area can attract, the more customers and the healthier a place becomes"!

[Biosonic]

Hi remfan, and welcome (although you had a bit if a baptism of fire )

There is a middle way to all of this, and the Spotted Dog are just a bit peeved and also sounding a warning, because it is entirely possible that new residential areas can drive a pub out of business.

Interestingly, the Fiddle & Bone was not as clear cut as it would seem. The law doesn't have a problem with noise creation, provided it is below a certain level and within certain hours. I used to drink in the F&B and many people who moved in near it cited the pub as one of the reasons they moved there.

However, the council paid a visit after complaints and found that the pub exceeded LEGAL noise levels even with the doors closed. The owners couldn't afford the noise attentuation given it was an old building so they left.

Now if the Spotted Dog is in a similar situation, they they can't really complain. They should count themselves fortunate that they haven't had to do anything so far. If they are not at fault, then they do not have anything to worry about as there are no legal powers.

What is more likely (if they are legal) is that it is a problem with either a) people congregating whilst smoking (and maybe leaving the door open) or b) noise when leaving the pub. The former is easier to sort, the latter not so, but that is a behavioural problem that almost every pub faces, and remember this is a pub and not a nightclub.

[morestoreysplease]

Firstly, there's no reason why the Fiddle & Bone building can't be opened up as a cafe and eaterie and maybe invite traders to set up a market on Sundays in the courtyard (like Holliday Wharf used to be).
Secondly, Hi Remfan - my friend's booked the Spotted Dog for Sunday as his baby's Christening after-party. Looking forward to it!

[Noddy]

Planning Application C/03742/06/FUL http:/www.birmingham.gov.uk/Generate...&MENU_ID=12189 for residential development opposite The Adam & Eve pub (rock music 6 nights a week) included a comprehensive noise survey carried out by Spectrum which took into account the music at the pub. Recommendation that no habitable rooms face Adam & Eve has resulted in application being withdrawn. Whinging visit by developer to see Gina, the Licensee, would have been a delight to behold. Back to the drawing board and design something appropriate. Is it going to be detrimental to the development of the "Irish Quarter" of Digbeth if there is an insistence that accommodation is "quality" rather than "quantity"?

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by brum2003

in the meantime the Spotted dog has had a noise abatement order served by residents from Abacus and is now stirring things up regards the future of all Irish pubs in the area. It seems he may have been unreasonable with levels of music late at night, also his pub has no double glazing which would have also helped the situation

the crux seems that the owner of the spotted dog feels its his right to play loud music 24/7 because he was first and is stirring up the 'local' community(non of whom live in digbeth anyway) to fight residential development

Complete bollocks!
A. 2am Licence Friday and Saturday, 12.30 Sunday. For music. Includes the garden. 67 events in garden since Jan 2005 About one every 2 weeks. 31 of these were bloody noisy. About one every 4 weeks.
B. Does this pillock expect me to double glaze 80 year old leaded windows, bowed with age. Would have been much better to have double glazed the windows of the soulless ugly recent creation opposite (would hardly have detracted from its "character" but would have eaten into the developer's profits!).
C. The Spotted Dog was were the concept of the Irish Quarter was first mooted about 15 years ago and has been an integral part of the Digbeth community for generations
D. Majority of Abacus residents support The Spotted Dog and can't understand the attitude of the 3 complainants (out of 178 apartments)

Read on if you are interested in what was amusingly described in "Showhouse" magazine (Page 25 June 2005) as "an unusually high level of co-operation from the city's planners".
I have owned the Spotted Dog for over 22 years and the premises, until recently, have never been the subject of complaints of any nature.
The Spotted Dog is a well-run establishment catering for the needs of local residents and visitors to the area. It is an integral part of a vibrant entertainment community and has been the venue of choice for countless functions in the last twenty years. These range from traditional Irish music to live bands in both the pub and in the garden, and have included many weddings, funerals, end of term school staff functions, charity functions and St Patrick’s week festivities. Many of these have been hosted in the garden, which is acknowledged as one of the best venues for live music in the city.
The Spotted Dog fulfils an important social role in the area as a focal centre for residents to meet and is an important part of the traditional character of the area.
The flurry of recent complaints has taken me by surprise and, because of events that have been booked here for up to a year, it has been difficult to respond to the satisfaction of the few complainants who seem to be determined that the pub and garden should not be used as it has been in the past, if at all.
Birmingham City Council Planning Department, in a letter written to me by Mr Clive Dutton, Director of Planning and Regeneration, has admitted that the Abacus development was allowed to be constructed in direct contravention of its own planning “Guidelines” in order to provide a “catalyst for further development in the vicinity”. My rights under the Guidelines, both residential and commercial, were considered (and minuted in a Planning Office report) but dismissed as being inconsequential when compared with the requirements of the developer’s right to ensure that the project was financially viable. The result is that the Abacus apartments are between 12 and 14 metres from my residence, commercial premises and garden instead of the Numerical Standards recommendation of 30 metres. This reduction (60%) is unprecedented in planning, in Birmingham and throughout the country, as far as I can ascertain, particularly with respect to residential accommodation.
Mr Dutton assures me that “the issue of noise was addressed through processing of the application and a noise report was submitted on existing noise levels in the area”. This placed Warwick Street in Noise Exposure Category (NEC) B (hardly appropriate for a development 12 metres from a Public House with a 2.00am Public Entertainment Licence). He also states, “acoustic insulation measures have been installed in the apartments in order to protect against adverse noise effects”.
The noise report referred to is proving difficult to track down and may require my visiting the Planning Office again to check the file, although I do not recall seeing such a document in my three previous perusals of the Abacus file.
The Environment Protection Unit, who are responsible for NEC technical information, have no report for this development on their files. They suggested that the developers may have submitted their own report with the application. Cosy! Or what?
Of one thing I am certain - that I was never asked what were the terms of my licence. No interest seems to have been taken in the fact that The Spotted Dog was licensed for music until 2.00 am on Saturday and Sunday and 12.30 am Monday, which is surprising in view of the fact that we have been conducting live music events here for years.
However, this apparent dereliction of duty is more than adequately explained in Mr Dutton’s letter. After informing me of the procedures of the Environmental Health Department (EHD) he states that he “is mindful of [my] concerns, however, the City Council cannot legally provide any exceptions to this legal requirement and if complaints are received, they will need to be investigated, and any noise nuisance mitigated against”.
Thus it would seem to be clear that no consideration was made for the potential environmental noise associated with The Spotted Dog. Inadequate sound insulation was recommended, at further financial benefit to the developer, and Mr Dutton and the developers could sleep soundly knowing that EHD would be on hand to counteract their dereliction. The fact that it results in the closure of The Spotted Dog, one of the reasons that people move into the area and an integral part of the widely-touted Irish Quarter as well as being the venue for the initial discussions that resulted in the concept of the Irish Quarter, will prove to be irrelevant once the developer has maximised his profits.
I do not know what acoustic insulation measures were recommended or whether they were implemented by the developer. If they were correct specifications, they were not carried out by the developer. If the specifications were incorrect then fault lies with the Planning Department who have put my business, which has only ever survived because of the various functions held here, in jeopardy.
Being unacquainted with such complaints, I was bemused by being informed that “noise nuisance” is an entirely subjective concept and that I was not entitled to objective readings of sound levels supporting the complainants point of view. Also, the fact that Environmental Health Officers (EHO) do not have to use monitoring equipment on their visits seemed strange considering the sophisticated equipment available. Having read up on the subject, I now see that this is, however bizarre, correct. They don’t use sound monitoring equipment because they don’t have to. I’ve not even been able to have copies of the EHO reports of the alleged nuisance.
I now realise that my situation is critical and that any form of congregation, particularly in the garden, is likely to result in a complaint.
It is quite plain that EHD is not concerned with my point of view, or that of many (indeed, of the vast majority) of residents in the area and that the complainants’ concerns are their only consideration. I understand that this is their statutory duty..
I had assumed that some compromise could be reached with the complainants, and am disappointed to have been unable to arrange a meeting with them. I’d assumed that I would be able to fulfil my commitments to future bookings both inside the pub and in the garden but if the group of complainants have their way, as seems likely, nothing will be allowed here in the form of one-off events.
I have yet to meet an Abacus resident who finds the activities here disturbing and I have spoken to probably 30 residents. All have said that The Spotted Dog and other live music venues in the area are the main reasons why they chose to move here. They are as concerned as I am about the threat to the way the pub is run and each has offered to supply written support. It seems, however, that EHD is not allowed to take this into consideration.
There are serious concerns amongst residents that the situation relating to The Spotted Dog will lead to closure of all other music venues in the area, removing the character that has developed over the last 20 years and thereby remove the reason why many people chose to live in the area. People travel from all over Europe to attend events at the larger venues around here.
I suggested, at the recent Digbeth Residents Meeting and the local Pubwatch Meeting, that Residents and Licensees meet to discuss a possible solution to the hosting of one-off events. Incidentally, I was informed that not one of the persons attending the Residents’ Meeting had any issues with The Spotted Dog and there was considerable support for the activities here.
The real issue is that if one-off, occasional, noisy, events are not allowed in this area, the area will change forever.
The sequence of events will be:
-Spotted Dog is prevented from being viable because of a minority of people.
-Having set the precedent, the minority pick-off The Rainbow and Adam and Eve.
-The Medicine Bar,
-The Sanctuary,
-Air, will all be targeted quite easily. None of these places will survive if, occasionally, accepted noise levels are not allowed to be exceeded.
-The area will be left desolate, with none of its former vibrant, flakey character. It will comprise thousands of residents living in mean, lifeless streets who will be wondering “Whatever happened to that terrific, lively, Irish Quarter that Concept Development Solutions and The Council promised us, with the leafy boulevards and exciting squares?”
-Two years down the line, somebody will say “That was a mistake, bring it all back”.
-But it won’t come back, and neither will the tens of thousands of visitors from Europe who travelled to Digbeth to hear the loud music! They’ll book their tickets straight through to Manchester.

All because of a developer “rolling-over” the Council Planning Department!
How sad!
A lady at the Digbeth Residents’ Meeting passed me a hand-written note asking whether I had considered that the site of The Spotted Dog might be a prime target for developers and suggesting that that may be the reason for the problems experienced. Perish the thought! Everybody knows that the developers are only interested in benefiting the community!

[brum2003]

!!!!

[brum2003]

!!!!

[ShavenHeaden]

So what do you suggest? You moan on and on people have been unfair to you, yet offer no alternative proposals for ways to go forward. So what do you propose? That Digbeth developments should cease and the area should stay the shithole it was?

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by ShavenHeaden

So what do you suggest? You moan on and on people have been unfair to you, yet offer no alternative proposals for ways to go forward. So what do you propose? That Digbeth developments should cease and the area should stay the shithole it was?

The Rainbow, Medicine Bar, Adam and Eve and Hennessey's are all beside proposed residential developments. All have at least 4am licences. All play loud music. The planners must not be conned by the developers. They must insist on "good design" to insulate the new residents from the existing businesses as is their duty. Every "Guideline" you'll ever see states that this is the objective in such areas.
The planning file for the Abacus development is a riot to read. The developer successfully argued the poormouth and, using totally ludicrous proposed prices for the apartments, convinced the planners that if the development wasn't allowed to be maximised to the extent that it contravened the Strategic Development Plan for the area and compromised my residential and commercial amenity it would not be financially viable. They managed to get away with zero affordable housing and £100,000 Section 106 commitment. This in a development of 178 apartments plus commercial. Then, bugger me, don't they just flog the lot on to someone else!
Guess what! The apartments were sold for up to double the prices quoted in the "poormouth" document. Did the planners' make allowances for this and claw back some of the "unprecedented" concessions made. No way. The Head of Planning and Regeneration claims that the affordable housing element will be made up in further developments in the area. So the next developer who proposes 178 apartments is going to allocate 50% of his properties for affordable housing??? My arse, he is!

[brum2003]

Originally Posted by Noddy

Complete bollocks!
A. 2am Licence Friday and Saturday, 12.30 Sunday. For music. Includes the garden. 67 events in garden since Jan 2005 About one every 2 weeks. 31 of these were bloody noisy. About one every 4 weeks.
B. Does this pillock expect me to double glaze 80 year old leaded windows, bowed with age. Would have been much better to have double glazed the windows of the soulless ugly recent creation opposite (would hardly have detracted from its "character" but would have eaten into the developer's profits!).
C. The Spotted Dog was were the concept of the Irish Quarter was first mooted about 15 years ago and has been an integral part of the Digbeth community for generations
D. Majority of Abacus residents support The Spotted Dog and can't understand the attitude of the 3 complainants (out of 178 apartments)

Read on if you are interested in what was amusingly described in "Showhouse" magazine (Page 25 June 2005) as "an unusually high level of co-operation from the city's planners".
I have owned the Spotted Dog for over 22 years and the premises, until recently, have never been the subject of complaints of any nature.
The Spotted Dog is a well-run establishment catering for the needs of local residents and visitors to the area. It is an integral part of a vibrant entertainment community and has been the venue of choice for countless functions in the last twenty years. These range from traditional Irish music to live bands in both the pub and in the garden, and have included many weddings, funerals, end of term school staff functions, charity functions and St Patrick’s week festivities. Many of these have been hosted in the garden, which is acknowledged as one of the best venues for live music in the city.
The Spotted Dog fulfils an important social role in the area as a focal centre for residents to meet and is an important part of the traditional character of the area.
The flurry of recent complaints has taken me by surprise and, because of events that have been booked here for up to a year, it has been difficult to respond to the satisfaction of the few complainants who seem to be determined that the pub and garden should not be used as it has been in the past, if at all.
Birmingham City Council Planning Department, in a letter written to me by Mr Clive Dutton, Director of Planning and Regeneration, has admitted that the Abacus development was allowed to be constructed in direct contravention of its own planning “Guidelines” in order to provide a “catalyst for further development in the vicinity”. My rights under the Guidelines, both residential and commercial, were considered (and minuted in a Planning Office report) but dismissed as being inconsequential when compared with the requirements of the developer’s right to ensure that the project was financially viable. The result is that the Abacus apartments are between 12 and 14 metres from my residence, commercial premises and garden instead of the Numerical Standards recommendation of 30 metres. This reduction (60%) is unprecedented in planning, in Birmingham and throughout the country, as far as I can ascertain, particularly with respect to residential accommodation.
Mr Dutton assures me that “the issue of noise was addressed through processing of the application and a noise report was submitted on existing noise levels in the area”. This placed Warwick Street in Noise Exposure Category (NEC) B (hardly appropriate for a development 12 metres from a Public House with a 2.00am Public Entertainment Licence). He also states, “acoustic insulation measures have been installed in the apartments in order to protect against adverse noise effects”.
The noise report referred to is proving difficult to track down and may require my visiting the Planning Office again to check the file, although I do not recall seeing such a document in my three previous perusals of the Abacus file.
The Environment Protection Unit, who are responsible for NEC technical information, have no report for this development on their files. They suggested that the developers may have submitted their own report with the application. Cosy! Or what?
Of one thing I am certain - that I was never asked what were the terms of my licence. No interest seems to have been taken in the fact that The Spotted Dog was licensed for music until 2.00 am on Saturday and Sunday and 12.30 am Monday, which is surprising in view of the fact that we have been conducting live music events here for years.
However, this apparent dereliction of duty is more than adequately explained in Mr Dutton’s letter. After informing me of the procedures of the Environmental Health Department (EHD) he states that he “is mindful of [my] concerns, however, the City Council cannot legally provide any exceptions to this legal requirement and if complaints are received, they will need to be investigated, and any noise nuisance mitigated against”.
Thus it would seem to be clear that no consideration was made for the potential environmental noise associated with The Spotted Dog. Inadequate sound insulation was recommended, at further financial benefit to the developer, and Mr Dutton and the developers could sleep soundly knowing that EHD would be on hand to counteract their dereliction. The fact that it results in the closure of The Spotted Dog, one of the reasons that people move into the area and an integral part of the widely-touted Irish Quarter as well as being the venue for the initial discussions that resulted in the concept of the Irish Quarter, will prove to be irrelevant once the developer has maximised his profits.
I do not know what acoustic insulation measures were recommended or whether they were implemented by the developer. If they were correct specifications, they were not carried out by the developer. If the specifications were incorrect then fault lies with the Planning Department who have put my business, which has only ever survived because of the various functions held here, in jeopardy.
Being unacquainted with such complaints, I was bemused by being informed that “noise nuisance” is an entirely subjective concept and that I was not entitled to objective readings of sound levels supporting the complainants point of view. Also, the fact that Environmental Health Officers (EHO) do not have to use monitoring equipment on their visits seemed strange considering the sophisticated equipment available. Having read up on the subject, I now see that this is, however bizarre, correct. They don’t use sound monitoring equipment because they don’t have to. I’ve not even been able to have copies of the EHO reports of the alleged nuisance.
I now realise that my situation is critical and that any form of congregation, particularly in the garden, is likely to result in a complaint.
It is quite plain that EHD is not concerned with my point of view, or that of many (indeed, of the vast majority) of residents in the area and that the complainants’ concerns are their only consideration. I understand that this is their statutory duty..
I had assumed that some compromise could be reached with the complainants, and am disappointed to have been unable to arrange a meeting with them. I’d assumed that I would be able to fulfil my commitments to future bookings both inside the pub and in the garden but if the group of complainants have their way, as seems likely, nothing will be allowed here in the form of one-off events.
I have yet to meet an Abacus resident who finds the activities here disturbing and I have spoken to probably 30 residents. All have said that The Spotted Dog and other live music venues in the area are the main reasons why they chose to move here. They are as concerned as I am about the threat to the way the pub is run and each has offered to supply written support. It seems, however, that EHD is not allowed to take this into consideration.
There are serious concerns amongst residents that the situation relating to The Spotted Dog will lead to closure of all other music venues in the area, removing the character that has developed over the last 20 years and thereby remove the reason why many people chose to live in the area. People travel from all over Europe to attend events at the larger venues around here.
I suggested, at the recent Digbeth Residents Meeting and the local Pubwatch Meeting, that Residents and Licensees meet to discuss a possible solution to the hosting of one-off events. Incidentally, I was informed that not one of the persons attending the Residents’ Meeting had any issues with The Spotted Dog and there was considerable support for the activities here.
The real issue is that if one-off, occasional, noisy, events are not allowed in this area, the area will change forever.
The sequence of events will be:
-Spotted Dog is prevented from being viable because of a minority of people.
-Having set the precedent, the minority pick-off The Rainbow and Adam and Eve.
-The Medicine Bar,
-The Sanctuary,
-Air, will all be targeted quite easily. None of these places will survive if, occasionally, accepted noise levels are not allowed to be exceeded.
-The area will be left desolate, with none of its former vibrant, flakey character. It will comprise thousands of residents living in mean, lifeless streets who will be wondering “Whatever happened to that terrific, lively, Irish Quarter that Concept Development Solutions and The Council promised us, with the leafy boulevards and exciting squares?”
-Two years down the line, somebody will say “That was a mistake, bring it all back”.
-But it won’t come back, and neither will the tens of thousands of visitors from Europe who travelled to Digbeth to hear the loud music! They’ll book their tickets straight through to Manchester.

All because of a developer “rolling-over” the Council Planning Department!
How sad!
A lady at the Digbeth Residents’ Meeting passed me a hand-written note asking whether I had considered that the site of The Spotted Dog might be a prime target for developers and suggesting that that may be the reason for the problems experienced. Perish the thought! Everybody knows that the developers are only interested in benefiting the community!

NO need to call me a pillock !

The same thing did happen at the fiddle and bone and it was one or two solicitors that caused all the problems, but also an unwillingnes son the side of the pub to change its business model to reflect the new neighbours (ie outside performances) I lived opposite and never complained but was bothered by the noise occasionally, my friends now live between yourselves and the adam and eve, which has great music jams, they have complained about the noise, but I know they would never complain officially !! as they value the contribution the bars make to the district. Obiously eveyone is not as acommodating as them.

I only suggested that you, the other bars and the residents, not just of abacus but the other residential developments start communicating in a constructive and meaningful way. This is happening in other parts of the city centre, to the benefit of all. Two years ago bars in the gay village were having noise abatement orders regularly served by the new residents of southside. They have now combined forces and have successfuly lobbied for improvements to security and regeneration of the area, and actively recruit new residents to their group, a model that would no doubt aid you and be beneficial for the future ! The gay village is still a noisy place at night, but the residents and the businesses now have a greater understanding and respect for each other through this cooperation

surely there must be a way round it where all parties are satisfied, including and prob most importantly yourself as an exisiting business !

I just hope your campaign is succesful in that a way is found to keep your business and others alive but that it does not have the effect of stifling development in the area as it is a disgrace visually and a very poor reflection on the city to visitors.

Maybe sue as a group of traders, the developers and the council for insulation to the pub/pubs in the area to neutralise future complaints ?