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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:12 PM   #21
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A few seasons ago, Montréal ridded itself of its transit guards by replacing them with something like thrice as many cops.

99% of the cops' shifts, however, involve loitering at station turnstiles where they persist at pouncing on youths to procure their transit-licensed student photo ID cards when swiping their cards or 'tokens'.

The fact that the tackling of fare evasion trumps security patrols is a mighty shame here...I cannot remember the last time I spied any copper patrolling a passageway, platform, or train.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 07:35 AM   #22
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So they use non-uniform cops to patrol for security though?
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Old September 6th, 2008, 07:41 AM   #23
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Vancouver actually looses about $6 million per year because of lost fare revenue. Things apparently are getting "better" but I don't believe it. We have a horrible control system, not enough staff to check fares, etc. Last year, I think I only been checked fare about five times... >__<"
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Old September 6th, 2008, 08:09 AM   #24
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Yes, I was about to ask how the honour fare system in Vancouver will hold up? I assume a lot of people are able to get through the cracks and bet to get through the cracks when they are not likely going to be stopped more than once a week or month?
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Old September 6th, 2008, 06:09 PM   #25
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About 3-4 years ago you could easily travel free on the UK's trains on fridays and sunday evenings when the trains were so stupidly overcrowded you would never get checked. As a student back then, I used to time my trains for the busy ones to have a free (or cheap) trip home for the weekend.

Since then though they seem to have lengthened some trains and put ticket barriers in all over the place, but there's still way around the system on busy trains where you can claim you got on at a small nearby stop with no ticket machine (very few now) and buy a ticket from the guy on the exit ticket barrier I know, not very good of me but it was fun in those student years, and I was skint...
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Old September 6th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #26
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Hardly anyone can evade paying the fare since if you buy a standard ticket by putting the card in you get $1 as a deposit since the card is basically reuse. There is really no way to evade paying the fare but there is a way to pay lesser fare. We have 5 different kind of cards, which are for primary, secondary, military, senior citizens and concession. Each card when tap on buses when will produce different sound but there are only two type of sound, one for primary, secondary and military type and another for senior citizens and concession as far as I remember but the bus driver will always look at the machine so to make sure no one is paying the "wrong" fare unfortunately there is no way for train's station gate to know which is which as they have no sound and they only have one light, green. Even so, they are no better by eating up our 5 cents if we pay by cash, since they will always put a 5 cent at every single fare such as 75 cents forcing people to pay 80 cents and your 5 cents will never get refunded.

Note: I don't cheat fares, I pay my fares as according though I am in secondary but I am still paying primary school's fare as till the date this was written, my secondary's card is not here until next year I guess. Now I have buy a concession card because mine will expire soon. Very nice way to earn money.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 05:35 AM   #27
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Transport Boss : Why We Have to Prosecute Over Evasion
11 August 2008
The Evening Standard

Steve Burton

Director of Community Safety, Enforcement and Policing at Transport for London

Our aim is not to hand out criminal records. Prosecuting fare evaders is not about 90p - it's about more than £30 million of taxpayers' money lost every year through fare evasion.

If you walked into a shop, picked up a newspaper and did not pay on your way out, you would expect to find yourself before a magistrate. It is no different on a bus. It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have paid the correct fare for their journey as soon as they board.

Fare evasion on bendy buses has always been higher than on other routes but it is coming down. It now stands at around eight per cent, which is still too high. That is why 300 revenue protection inspectors target bendy buses, meaning you are up to 10 times more likely to come across one of our inspectors on these routes.

Ninety-seven per cent of our passengers pay the correct fare and support a tough stance against those who don't. We aim to be firm but fair in our prosecutions policy and we encourage individuals to let us know of any mitigating circumstances. Where appropriate, we will try to reach an out-of-court settlement which avoids a criminal record. In court we are successful in more than 99 per cent of cases.

This article reinforces the message that it is not worth risking a criminal record for the sake of 90p.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 06:44 AM   #28
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I don't want to lose a months income and get a criminal record only because I forgot buying a ticket. Is that for getting caught once or 4 times? If the goal is to target non paying passengers something is just over the top. If controls are so rare they have to make the fees exorbitantly high they are doing something wrong. no thanks

I used to travel without a ticket in my youth when I could get a ticket for free for some time apparently because of lazyness to get one. Never got caught
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
So they use non-uniform cops to patrol for security though?
Nah.....supposedly, those ones are going to be travelling on the busses, not on the worms...
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #30
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I think I went on Munich's system multiple times without paying, not sure why. Otherwise I always pay at the honor systems in Europe.

My friend in Amsterdam said they come through so infrequently that many people haven't paid in years, and almost forget that you're actually suppose to on the trams. He always pays though, since it's so cheap for the ticket strips. I've gone on once or twice without paying when I find myself with no cash, or just show the driver an old ticket since they never seen to examine the time printed on the back. Only once or twice though out of the 100 times I've been on the thing.

I've noticed in Chicago almost everyone always pays. I've never seen anyone jump the turnstyle or come through the back doors of the bus. I do see people who seem quite poor or crazy or both get on the bus and then pretend to look for their fare card for 5 blocks or so when we ALL KNOW they have nothing on them. Half the time the driver kicks them off, or if it's very busy and they don't want to waste the time, the person looks crazy, they just roll their eyes and tell them to go back further in the bus and get out of the way.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #31
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In Shanghai fare evasion was easy on the buses. I didnt want to do it, but I had maxed out my transport card and couldnt work out how to top it up! The drivers didnt seem bothered in the slightest, probably because I'm white!
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Old September 9th, 2008, 07:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago View Post
I've noticed in Chicago almost everyone always pays. I've never seen anyone jump the turnstyle or come through the back doors of the bus.
Sneaking on via bus exits has really caught on here the past year.....I swear it's gonna become worse coz the transit corporation here's brought in some new although archaic payment electronics that's taken to jamming (passenger) queues, so people are bound to hold the back doors open.....I shan't be surprised when it comes to some (other [shan't ever be me myself]) passenger opening the back doors for those waiting to board.

Paris? I used to rupture you pretty good were you one of those zillions who'd try to slip in on my entrance when swiping my Carte orange through the turnstile.....I monitored how well I could back-heel up into their crotches at accentuating their exasperations in their (sudden) yelpings...
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Old September 10th, 2008, 02:41 AM   #33
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Entering on back of the bus is allowed for B-Line routes in Vancouver. And just do let everyone know (not a lot do), there are only four officers fare checking buses, so the chances of you getting caught are next to nothing.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 07:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
With the York Region BRT, the ticket validators cut the corner of the ticket and print the time the ticket expires at. However, they always have problems and sometimes it may cut the ticket but not print the time. Next time it does that to me, I'm keeping it as my blank cheque for free rides

hehe.

I have a blank validated ticket...
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Old September 10th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Transport Boss : Why We Have to Prosecute Over Evasion
11 August 2008
The Evening Standard

Steve Burton

Director of Community Safety, Enforcement and Policing at Transport for London

Our aim is not to hand out criminal records. Prosecuting fare evaders is not about 90p - it's about more than £30 million of taxpayers' money lost every year through fare evasion.

If you walked into a shop, picked up a newspaper and did not pay on your way out, you would expect to find yourself before a magistrate. It is no different on a bus. It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have paid the correct fare for their journey as soon as they board.

Fare evasion on bendy buses has always been higher than on other routes but it is coming down. It now stands at around eight per cent, which is still too high. That is why 300 revenue protection inspectors target bendy buses, meaning you are up to 10 times more likely to come across one of our inspectors on these routes.

Ninety-seven per cent of our passengers pay the correct fare and support a tough stance against those who don't. We aim to be firm but fair in our prosecutions policy and we encourage individuals to let us know of any mitigating circumstances. Where appropriate, we will try to reach an out-of-court settlement which avoids a criminal record. In court we are successful in more than 99 per cent of cases.

This article reinforces the message that it is not worth risking a criminal record for the sake of 90p.
Personally, I think taking people to court would be a good idea, but the court system is crowed enough as it is.
Giving someone a criminal record is harsh, but it can work. Most employers tend to frown on potential employees with criminal records. A good idea would be to allow the record to be expunged after a few months(minor offence), and if the person offends again, make the record permanent for a year.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #36
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In London's case i blame the authorities for fuelling the fare evade people. Just the other day i was on the super long busses from Camden town to Finsbury park, the buss had no conductor and people got in and out through the back door without paying. put conductors in and they will recoup the £300 that transport for london is losing every year. Also use the plastic, sorry the toothless community officers to board the buss and see how many people swipe their oyster cards and make payment. In a nutshell the fraud takes place because the authorites let them
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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
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In a nutshell the fraud takes place because the authorites let them
We have a similar situation with Muni in San Francisco. Officially, passengers can only board through other doors on the light rail, which is proof-of-payment (POP). This is a little unintuitive, however, as the buses aren't POP and everyone is supposed to board through the front door of buses. However, it's pretty much de-facto rear-boarding on some bus lines, because:
  1. Crowding is bad and everyone likes to stand in the front of the bus, meaning it's much less hassle-free to simply go through the rear, which can be devoid of standees.
  2. At some bus stops, the dwell time would be longer than the headways if everyone boarded through the front, so some drivers just open all doors and don't care whether you actually have a pass or some form of POP. They just want to get to the terminal as quickly as possible so they can get a break at the end. Unrealistic schedules are also a problem, as there's not enough time given to drivers to actually complete their runs.

It's a problem, though, because fare evaders tend to be rowdy, dangerous types, or just a big nuisance to other passengers... All it would take is enforcing the rules, but Muni has dropped the ball and let off fare evaders. They only bother checking on the light rail vehicles, and only in the subway, not when it runs on-street. This lack of initiative makes passengers think it's OK to cheat the system because no one is telling them they can't. Seriously, the most they've done for this situation is put up plastic stickers at the rear doors telling passengers they can't board, which of course, everyone ignores. Meanwhile, the agency is running out of money and everything is in poor condition... The rest of us hard-working, honest people end up having to foot the bill for these kind of people.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #38
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I can't see Montréal ever switching to honesty-based system, plus OPUS' queue-jamming's becoming worse every day.

(I reckon la STM's name OPUS signifies just how few phone numbers must've been remaining wherefrom the transit corp could pick just one to which they can associate its new ticketing devices...)
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:58 PM   #39
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Japan's robot gate fingers fare-dodgers

TOKYO, March 6 (Reuters) - Free riders, meet your match: Japanese engineers have invented a Robot Gate that traps train commuters who try to squeeze through without buying a ticket.

The device, presented at Tokyo's Security Expo by Japanese company Glory Ltd , consists of eight gates that open one after another, then close in from either side as the commuter passes through.

In addition, security cameras installed in front of the gate check people's faces against a database to identify known fare-dodgers as well as commuters who may need assistance.

"The gate recognises pre-registered people and their size and whether he or she is using a wheelchair, and it makes space for just that one person to pass through," said Yojiro Kamise, general manager of research and development at Glory.

"So while usual security gates tend to allow three or four free riders to go through, this one will never allow them to do that."

The gate will cost about 5 million yen ($48,000) -- nearly the same as existing ticket barriers, the company says. The company also says the gate will save costs since railway operators will need fewer staff to catch free riders.

Tokyo's annual security show has been expanding every year, and nearly doubled in size since last year, even though Japan's crime rate is extremely low compared with Europe and the United States and has been dropping over the past decade.

Security experts say the growing interest shows an increasing sense of insecurity in Japan linked to social change as Japanese media highlight crimes, especially those committed by foreigners.

"As Japan is an insular nation isolated by the sea from other countries, we had thought until recently that we were safe," said Koichi Hori, one of the organisers and the public relations manager at Japan's association of anti-crime equipment.

"However, with the progress of globalisation in the economy and crime, general awareness of crime prevention has been increasing in Japan." ($1=103.94 Yen)
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Old November 20th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #40
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Ain't that just lovely.....I mean, where else would somebody go to hail the first robot in the world to go berserk.
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