daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 17th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #81
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Heh heh, that's now the second comment of yours I've come across that's ended up tickling me (I wish I had replied your other one).



Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I suggest
Why, so you can (re-[?]) do/take your ethics module while I not be looking, coz, having just (coincidentally) followed through on your initial suggestion sometime the past few days, it's evident from glancing at the summarised Web-posted versions of regulations that the railway operators --whose stellar monetary performances you gush over by fully copying and pasting the media's coverage into the fora around here-- and by the never-ending deteriorating state of their trackside installations, are themselves not following through on their obligations, indicating to me that the corresponding regulator (authority), overall (as opposed to on an individual staff basis ), must be in bed with them?
__________________
.
hee hee
.

Last edited by trainrover; January 17th, 2012 at 09:57 PM.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 18th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #82
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Yesterday was the third time I've been stopped the past five weeks by inspectors. The first was on a metro, the second was up the steps from a platform, and yesterday was getting off the bus terminating at the metro station (the passenger behind me grumbled it was always the route we were trying to get off of), all during a wicked, traffic-snarling, rush-hour snow storm. I asked the inspector what if I hadn't swiped my card over the on-board scanner even though my card's loaded with this month's bus pass, and his reply was that the passenger would still get a ticket (be fined) Although seldom, sometimes heading the other way (from the metro to the bus), there's no bus driver seated in the waiting bus, so I'd hate to think what happen to passengers who not swipe their cards, coz the inspectors are known to board busses even mid-route.

Like the (regional) AMT's fessed up in the past, I imagine sometime in the near future the STM coming clean at admitting their dreadfulness at not thoroughly informing the public; their campaign's been crummy, lousy.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2012, 09:21 PM   #83
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

:pfft: A couple of days ago, a senior STM Customer Service staff did not know whether their inspector's reply be valid



The following day's five further letters (13 Jan 2012) :
Fines and tactics in the mťtro


18 Jan 2012 :
STM defends its ticketing policy

Spokesperson denies certain groups targeted, says checks are done randomly



clickable...


Hence yesterday's pair of further letters (20 Jan 2012) :
STM ticket tactics
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2012, 09:58 PM   #84
MiaM
Registered User
 
MiaM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 279
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Wonder whether overall revenues have gone down as a result of the honour system? Are there any such studies of late around the world?
Worth noting is that the barrier manufacturers and advanced ticket system vendors surely do some lobbying towards systems with barriers and for example smart cards, while there are probably no commercial lobby against barriers and advanced ticket systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrelot View Post
I guess tourists like to play the out-of-town card. At least when I lived in Italy it was utterly common:
In Sweden the out-of-town-card is actually allowed in the law that regulates maximum extra fare for fare evasion. It's only on underground trains that there is no exception from that rule AFAIK. Basically it's a rather good idea as you could for example follow the stream of people and jump on the rear tram of two coupled trams in Gothenburg and when the tram starts to move with locked doors you find out that there is no conductor and only ticket machines that requires that you have a smartcard with loaded pay-as-you-go-cash or travel card, and the possibility to buy a ticket using your phones SMS function isn't available if you have an unregistered preloaded SIM card and probably also unavailable to foreign SIM cards.

It seems like the checks in Gothenburg are usually not done on days with really cold/bad weather as they will probably just fine ("extra fare") homeless people who use the trams and busses as a shelter. Too bad society has gone to a state where there actually are a lot of homeless people

I've read that in Copenhagen homeless people are able to buy a heavily discounted travel card, something like around Ä5 for a month or maybe it was three months. The idea is to stop those people from getting caught in checks because giving them a fine is usually just a waste of time as they don't have any money to pay the fine and so the depts only accumulate without ever getting paid (unless they win a million on lottery or inherit money...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by metro_minotaur View Post
Not exactly fair evasion.

I am a university student and i can prove it by showing identification. In my hometown of Adelaide, Australia this allows me to get cheaper "concession" tickets instead of paying the full fare. However, If i were to travel Interstate to another city like Sydney and purchase a concession ticket, the ticket inspectors will not accept another state's concession card and attempt to issue me with the maximum fine for fare evasion. the "at least i've got a ticket and ID" line usually gets rid of them. Its the same country, so it shouldnt matter.

But here's the joke of it all; i can actually travel to ANOTHER COUNTRY like anywhere in Western Europe for example and use that same concession card to buy university-student tickets, with no issues.
Interesting. Compare this to discounts to people with disabilities. Those discounts seems to be country specific even within the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
On bendy buses you do have it though, but they'll be getting rid of all of those in the next two years.
How much is the cost of the extra dwell time at bus stops when everyone has to enter through only one door istead of through all doors?

In Gothenburg the developement has gone from everyone entering through the front door to allowing people getting on through every door. Even though there are more fare evation when doing so, the dwell times at bus/tram stops decreases and does also become more predictable (no random five minutes dwell time when 10 people are searching everey pocket for nickels and dimes e.t.c.) so therefore it's also a financial gain in that the systems throughput increases. Also especially parts of the tram system is at its limits at peak hours (~40 trams per hour in each direction at some double track bottlenecks in the rush hour with trams filled with passengers) so it's the only way to be able to move enough people in the rush hours.

It's rather recent (perhaps 1-3 years ago) that they allowed entrance through all doors on local busses, a bit less than 10 years ago that they alloved entrance throuh all doors on the trams around the clock, and it's a long time ago when they started to allow entrance through all doors on the trams on all times except the night hours.

I like open barrier system because I don't have to fetch my travel card / season ticket to swipe it at a reader and can thus keep it in a safer place and thus lessen the risk that it gets lost or stolen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
You should tell that to the dozen or so RPO who did a blitz at Notting Hill Gate tube station the other day. In fact I get stopped at this station about once every 3 months for a ticket check. I think the main issue is people coming from the DLR or Stratford,
Surely there must be many other unguarded rail stations that you can enter through and transfer to the underground system within ticket barriers? For example the whole Thameslink system has atleast one interchange with the underground system within barriers at Farringdon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
but I always thought if you got on and didn't swipe then when leaving you would be charged the maximum fare, so not sure what they are doing.
On a visit to London in 2007 I (honestly) lost my day travel card while I was within the system, and therefore I took a chance and successfully forced the exit gates at Bethnal Green underground station. No-one of the staff took any notice/action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilenofuturista View Post
I think planka.nu still exists, but I wouldn't go there. May I remind you that it is illegal and it's not worth the hassle.
Is it really illegal? The "fine" is legally an "extra fare", not a fine, and thus it's not criminal (but can cost a hefty extra fare) to not have a valid ticket. Surely it can't be illegal to insure against an extra fare for something that's technically not illegal?
MiaM no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #85
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Houston & Vancouver

Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo234 View Post
BTW, the fare inspectors travelling on Vancouver's SkyTrain back in the '90s were awful. I became so fed up with their treatment as the inspections I chanced upon came to accumulating that I eventually ended up quarreling with a pair of them myself over the way they were treating a couple of youths, what with the inspectors themselves being the (power-tripping) yobbos.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2012, 04:48 AM   #86
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Is fare evasion a problem in Germany?
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2012, 06:42 PM   #87
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

I'd been hoping somebody else answer your question.

A quick Web search reveals that Germany itself doesn't seem to think so while other European countries do (Germany's refused external pressure to increase both its patrols and fines). Another thing is that, compared to N America, taking public transport is noble over there. I passed on listening to a topic bandied about on early-morning radio this week, being should fare inspectors be more customer-service oriented or cops. The problem is the crappy treatment doled out to passengers subjected to inspections; for ages now, it's as though public-transport patrons are merely second-class citizens around Canada, plus I wouldn't be surprised if this be the same in the USA.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 03:33 AM   #88
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Aside from the following story, there have been others, reporting on how Montreal's whole fare inspection fiasco keeps becoming creepier and more ridiculous -- 06 Feb 2012
Rights commission fines STM for racial profiling

__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #89
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,746

__________________
すみません !
Jíaime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #90
fbeavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 140
Likes (Received): 258

This is how fare evaders should be dealt with

fbeavis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2012, 02:46 AM   #91
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Dealt with by a fare-paying passenger? Vigilantism over dysfunctional practice? cheesh!

I only wish I could make out what the conductor must've been saying.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #92
fbeavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 140
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Dealt with by a fare-paying passenger? Vigilantism over dysfunctional practice? cheesh!

I only wish I could make out what the conductor must've been saying.
some little shit got thrown off a train, yeah cry me a river...
fbeavis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #93
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Huh? Had the dodger been a big turd, might it've made a difference? What do you call Maighstir marasglaiche's recurring wimpering itself, laughing? Is radioing the coppers to show up at some subsequent station a crappier way of taking care of business? Might the rail operator've had to have declared bankruptcy had the dodger travelled any farther? Queer, that altogether being the sort of valiance somebody be drawn to, for all I can make of the incident (again) is some dysfunctional set-up compelling some :pfft: macho passenger to --errr-- sort it out by way of violence ...
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 02:52 AM   #94
Acemcbuller
Lifelong Londoner
 
Acemcbuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 204
Likes (Received): 0

So whatís the formula then?
Transport For London say that fare evasion lost them £63m in 2011.
To tackle this they have 500 revenue protection officers fining between £40 and £1000.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ive/22862.aspx
So is the £65 what they managed to catch people evading or what they estimate the evasion total to be?
Lets say there are 290 working days a year. Iíve seen salaries quoted at around £23,000. I realise that there are other on-costs but thatíll do for the sake of argument.
63,000,000-(23000*500)/500/40/290 = 8.8
evaders*40*500*290 = 63,000,000+(23,000^500)
evaders*74,500,000 / 5,800,000
evaders = 12.8
So each officer has to fine 13 people a day to recoup £65m and their own wages. Thatís not including legal expenses, time to appearing court and anything else Iíve not thought of which would mean a higher figure (I just realised I didnít factor in the payment of the proper fair in addition to the penalty).
Iím quite surprised itís that many. Given the time it must take to travel to the various locations, have the arguments, and do the paper work itís a fair ask.
So the question is, does ticket inspecting result in a net loss or gain? And does this go straight back to TFL?
Interestingly it seems the fines need to be quite higher to make It worth having more enforcement?



I've probably missed lots of issues here but enjoyed working it out.
Any thoughts?
Acemcbuller no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 03:42 AM   #95
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Are most of London's inspectors and fare-dodger detectives always so human with evaders, or were only nice ones the sort featured in the second episode (split into four parts here) of the BBC's televised The Tube? Their behaviour contrasts Montreal's own spiteful and dehumanising inspectors so much!
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #96
SydneyCity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,727
Likes (Received): 202

Sydney Ferries anti-evasion sign on board a ferry:


By sydneycity91 at 2012-04-27

The stupid thing about Sydney Ferries is that there are no ticket machines or booths at the majority of wharves (apart from Circular Quay, Mosman, Darling Harbour, Manly and Parramatta) and there is nobody who sells tickets onboard ferries, making it difficult to buy a ticket if you're not passing through one of the wharves with ticket sellers. You can, however, buy tickets from many newsagencies, convenience stores and supermarkets, but these are often located some distance from wharves (up to 20 mins walk in some cases).
__________________
Say yes to Barangaroo, the Sydney Metro and the East Coast HSR.

Last edited by SydneyCity; April 29th, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
SydneyCity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #97
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Montreal never embarked on any campaign, typically Canadia/en.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2012, 04:48 AM   #98
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post



Superb pyscho-thriller, all selections for its score great an excellent film overall
..
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #99
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738


Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover



Pigeons appear to have evolved into fare evaders, skip to 40'52" (chapter starts at 39'48").
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2013, 03:46 AM   #100
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
...
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium