The Chicago-Rockford-Madison-Milwaukee Megapolitan Watch Thread

[globill]

Originally Posted by brewcityfan

I second that. Lake Cook Road is HELL to drive on....especially during rush hour. God save you!

Lake -Cook is a nightmare. If any East-West road should be upgraded to a highway, that should be it. Put a few mini-interchanges at Waukegan, Sanders, and Milwaukee and you could have a rather workable 10 mile highway.

As weird as it is, the "Palatine Expressway" works pretty well. Maybe a similar scheme, for Lake-Cook, on steroids... would do wonders for the area.

Problem is....try to get the Stroger folks in Cook County to work on something with the Lake County folks....talk about a culture clash...

[Crankbaiter]

FC

where are you trying to get to near the LCR corridor? I may be able to give u some tips

[globill]

Budget puts commuter study back on track
Aug 27, 2007 @ 06:21 PM
By Thomas V. Bona
RRSTAR.COM
ROCKFORD -

With the state budget passed, the efforts to bring commuter-rail or bus service from Chicagoland to Rockford are back on track.

Northern Illinois Commuter Transportation Initiative leaders hope to still select a route for the commuter service by the end of October. They received $275,000 in state matching funds approved in last week’s budget, and will be able to spent $1 million in federal money to keep the study going.

They’re choosing between two Metra-style rail options and two “rapid-bus options.”
Before the budget passed, they were worried they’d have to send the consultants home for a month or more, delaying the results.

“We feel very fortunate. It was to the point where we were having to consider what our options were going to be,” said Steve Ernst, assistant project manager. “We’re happy with where the project is now.”

The commuter-rail options both connect to Metra in Elgin — one would go through Huntley, Belvidere and downtown Rockford; the other would go through Genoa and Davis Junction to Chicago/Rockford International Airport.

The bus routes would come from the Elgin or Schaumburg areas along the Northwest Tollway to downtown Rockford.

At public meetings earlier this year, most support was for the rail options.
Planners will be study ridership projections for the four routes and look at other criteria in the next two months.

NICTI is funded by $2.4 million in federal funds and $600,000 in state money over the course of several years. Once a route is chosen, the actual project would be funded by federal money. Construction wouldn’t start for at least a few years.

Meanwhile, efforts to restore Amtrak service between Chicago, Rockford and Dubuque, Iowa, are still delayed by state budget battles. Funding would be in a capital construction plan, and one hasn’t been passed by the state in a few years. Amtrak hoped to start service by the end of 2009, but further delays could push that to 2010.

[globill]

If the train option goes through, downtown Elgin could become a pretty sizable hub in its own right.

[jpIllInoIs]

I hope they choose the route thru the existing downtowns of Huntley, Marengo, Belvidere and Rockford. Otherwise they are just encouragin more cornfield subdivisions. And I don't think the Metra is going to add much activity to the Airport. I would rather see Amtrack make the airport link with the revival of the Blackhawk line.

[globill]

I agree. In an ideal world, they'd do both. I wonder if Elgin is pushing this extension as well as Rockford. When they extend a Metra Line it usually just goes out to a small boomtown in the exurbs. This extension would bring some 400,000 more people onto the line extending from Elgin. It really could have a huge impact on the city.

[jpIllInoIs]

I don't know how much influence Elgin can have on Metra. Usually it is the expansion towns that hold some sway. In other Metra expansions, the local municipalities agree to put up the station house and parking lots. Metra is big on having ample parking. The towns own, operate and collect the revenue from parking. Metra owns the rolling stock and leases the track rights.

This gives the existing towns a certain advantage since they can easily operate the parking....BUT, the disadvantage is that they need to find space in the downtown (or immediate adjacant) for the large parking lots that Metra insists on. Very few established suburbs have parking decks and most small towns won't allow them.

All said, I think that the Metra project will go thru, but Metra expansion timelines are long, 5-10 years. I think the Amtrack-Blackhawk route will be restored sooner, probably within 24 months.

[SRG]

Madison???

I agree with Milwaukee-Chicago, but Madison?

[bnk]

Originally Posted by globill

If the train option goes through, downtown Elgin could become a pretty sizable hub in its own right.

Well with or without the line Elgin's growth will continue at a rapid rate, esp on the west side. They are already swallowing up whole towns and the projected population increase in the next 15-20 years is in the order of 50-60 thousand addtional residents to push the total population of the city of Elgin to around 150 thousand residents. This is just one of the reasons that Sherman hosptial is currently building a 355 million dollar new hospital on randal road west of the Fox river, to better center itself in the Elgin area.

http://www.thefutureofsherman.com/

[globill]

Originally Posted by SRG

Madison???

I agree with Milwaukee-Chicago, but Madison?

Madison has been booming for decades and it is in the beginning stages of merging with the Janesville metro, which has more or less merged with Rockford, which is rapidly merging with Chicago.

No, people will never live in downtown Chicago and commute to Madison (unless high-speed rail between the 2 becomes a reality). But I do see a direct build-up along the interstates to develop within the next 20 years.

If you read through this whole thread, you might understand why I and many others feel that way.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by globill

Madison has been booming for decades and it is in the beginning stages of merging with the Janesville metro, which has more or less merged with Rockford, which is rapidly merging with Chicago.

No, people will never live in downtown Chicago and commute to Madison (unless high-speed rail between the 2 becomes a reality). But I do see a direct build-up along the interstates to develop within the next 20 years.

If you read through this whole thread, you might understand why I and many others feel that way.

UW is a research and economic engine that benefits Chicago with its connection with Madison.

[SRG]

Originally Posted by globill

Madison has been booming for decades and it is in the beginning stages of merging with the Janesville metro, which has more or less merged with Rockford, which is rapidly merging with Chicago.

No, people will never live in downtown Chicago and commute to Madison (unless high-speed rail between the 2 becomes a reality). But I do see a direct build-up along the interstates to develop within the next 20 years.

If you read through this whole thread, you might understand why I and many others feel that way.

Janesville, Rockfood, yes. Rockford, Chicago, no. Janeville, Madison, also no. It's too disconnected anyway. Like calling Boston-DC a metro.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by SRG

Janesville, Rockfood, yes. Rockford, Chicago, no. Janeville, Madison, also no. It's too disconnected anyway. Like calling Boston-DC a metro.

IMO

This is not a really good analogy.

Have you spent enough time in both Metro regions to make this statement?

Without looking at an atlas or map, and going off personal experience, Rockford is much closer in miles and relationship to Chicago than Boston is to DC.

It is not if but only when, when Chicago/Gary/New Buffalo MI, Milwaukee with Racine and Kenosha of course, Kankakee, DeKalb to Rockford, onto Janesville and Madison will be one giant Megalopolis.

I know I was all over the place and was out of order but that is what you get when you find yourself surrounded by cities on all sides, one can get discombobulated.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Bonjourtoledo

I thought Rockford, Madison, and Milwaukee are suburbs of Chicago? Just like Akron, Canton, and Youngstown are suburbs of Cleveland.

bond, that's a difficult issue to raise with Chicagoans. We tend to believe that Cleveland, Akron, Canton, and Youngstown are all suburbs of Chicago.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by globill

Madison has been booming for decades and it is in the beginning stages of merging with the Janesville metro, which has more or less merged with Rockford, which is rapidly merging with Chicago.

No, people will never live in downtown Chicago and commute to Madison (unless high-speed rail between the 2 becomes a reality). But I do see a direct build-up along the interstates to develop within the next 20 years.

If you read through this whole thread, you might understand why I and many others feel that way.

Actually Globe, if you read thru the thread most people do not agree with you. Most are skeptical of making this proclimation at this time. Most of the post that agree with your premis are from you, answering your own question.

The problem I have is that your method consist of following an interstate out of Chicago. And you could make the same claim in every direction whereby you would eventually have Defiance, Oh as a part of the Chicago orbit.

By your logic that connection is as follows: South Bend is in Chicago sphere; Elkhart and SB are "twin cities"; Goshen is part of Elkharts MSA; Warsaw is only 22 miles from Goshen; Columbia City is only 20 miles from Warsaw and Columbia City is a Fort Wayne suburb and everybody knows that half of Defiance, OH works in Fort Wayne.

The only science you present is an "accent or pronunciation graphic".

You could call yourself an optimistic seer, but I would say you are about 25 years ahead of this occurence.

[brewcityfan]

I don't think globill is such a visionary as you claim he is - he's instead a realist. He is seeing the inner workings of this area that others (until reading this thread) are beginning to just get a glimpse of.

The only major opposition to globill's comments are from SRG - a man from Oklahoma City that who knows when he last was up in this area (if at all).

Milwaukee and Chicago are truly merging, and merging faster by the month. Developments are sprouting up like you'd never believe.

Madison and Rockford are doing the same thing 70 miles to the west. Thanks to I-90 and I-43, the four cities are converging on each other.

[globill]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

By your logic that connection is as follows: South Bend is in Chicago sphere; Elkhart and SB are "twin cities"; Goshen is part of Elkharts MSA; Warsaw is only 22 miles from Goshen; Columbia City is only 20 miles from Warsaw and Columbia City is a Fort Wayne suburb and everybody knows that half of Defiance, OH works in Fort Wayne.

The only science you present is an "accent or pronunciation graphic".

You could call yourself an optimistic seer, but I would say you are about 25 years ahead of this occurence.

The integration is already occurring. I think I mentioned this earlier, but it bears repeating. Chicago, as big and healthy and powerful as it is, is not immune to outside regional influence. Milwaukee and Rockford are easily the largest metros within an hour's drive of Chicago, it is only natural that metros of 1.8 million and 450,000 bordering the region will have an influence on Chicagoland.

East of Chicago is water, south, southeast, southwest and west of the city are no metros even approaching Rockford's size (Rockford is 4 times the size of Kankakee and growing much much much faster), let alone Milwaukee's.

This thread, if read by people in places such as Kenosha, Racine, northern Lake County, McHenry County, Walworth County, Rockford and Janesville metros..

would be an afterthought. Those 1.5 million people or so already know they live in the middle of a rapidly evolving mega-region.

For people on the isthmus in Madison, or the northern burbs of Milwaukee, or downtown Chicago and points south, it might not be particularly obvious just yet.

[SRG]

Originally Posted by brewcityfan

The only major opposition to globill's comments are from SRG - a man from Oklahoma City that who knows when he last was up in this area (if at all).

Nice.

[globill]

a Milwaukee-Madison merging article....


MIDDLE MARKET HIGHLIGHT, AUGUST 2007

Madison Developing Plans to Meet Milwaukee Halfway

Though separated by a stretch of Interstate 94 of approximately 75 miles, the cities of Madison and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, are growing closer by the day. The perceived distance between the sprawling suburbs of these two communities has been shortened to a mere 26 miles when you consider the drive from the intersection of Highway 73 and I-94, the intersection at which the Madison suburb of Deerfield is located, and the intersection of Highway 67 and I-94, where the Milwaukee suburb of Oconomowoc is located. The two cities began growing towards one another though suburban residential growth, but the commercial development that has followed the residential boom has inched the cities ever closer.

From the intersection of Highway 73 and I-94, a commuter can reach the Milwaukee suburbs in a mere 22 minutes. For shoppers in either market, there is the Johnson Creek Outlet Mall, which is located strategically between these two communities on Highway 26 along the interstate. The cities’ suburban populations can now convene for shopping at a moments notice. The constant movement of these two communities toward one another is a shopper’s dream come true, though it may be a nightmare for those that wish to live downtown and walk to the corner store for their groceries. The proliferation of suburban retail could draw momentum away from the push to develop downtown neighborhoods featuring a comprehensive mix of goods and services, including grocery stores, which are often scarce in under-retailed downtown markets like Milwaukee.

There has been a continuing loss of population in the city of Milwaukee, while Madison experiences continued population growth. We expect the Milwaukee suburbs of Brookfield, Delafield and Elm Grove, and the Madison suburbs of Deerfield, Sun Prairie and Cottage Grove, to continue to grow at the expense of the inner city markets. Despite the recent decline in the housing market, many of these communities have seen and will continue to see double-digit population growth. It may be that very few fields, prairies and groves will exist between Milwaukee and Madison as the aforementioned suburbs and neighboring towns continue to expand.

Is the meeting of these two communities by design or a date with destiny? The answer is that major companies have and will continue to take control of their own destiny and move out of the Madison and Milwaukee commercial markets in pursuit of the lower taxes, larger land parcels and simpler bureaucracy found in the suburbs. Recently, some Madison-based companies — Shared Medical Services and Matrix/Horizon Fitness — made the move out of the city, relocating to the eastern edge of Dane County, in which Madison is situated, to the new Cottage Grove Business Park. Similar movements by Milwaukee-area companies to the far west suburb of Oconomowoc have lead to new suburban development, such as a new 110-bed hospital from Aurora Health Care; the 81,000-square-foot Ace Precision headquarters; the 51,100-square-foot Sentry Equipment Corporation manufacturing facility; and the 1.1 million-square-foot Roundy’s distribution center.

It is and will continue to be very difficult for long-established, inner-city companies to compete with suburban counterparts, where there is more room for expansion, less complicated dealings with municipalities over permitting, and the availability of modern industrial product. It is an easy decision for many companies to move to a community outside of the inner-city that offers the opportunity to relocate in a business park with proper zoning, new infrastructure and better access to major transportation options. Unfortunately for the urban core in Madison and Milwaukee, the jobs move with the companies to these new areas, and residential retail development follows. At the expense of the inner cities, most of the townships, villages, and cities within Dane and Walworth counties have experienced double-digit population growth during the last 20 years, and the census projections for the next 10 years predict that the trend will continue.

With all this growth between Madison and Milwaukee, it is no wonder that construction of one of the largest retail malls to be built in Wisconsin is on the drawing board in the Pabst Farms development in Oconomowoc. General Growth Properties has announced plans for a regional mall and entertainment complex on 110 acres within the expansive mixed-use community.

One could argue that the two communities are presently kept apart only by the width of Jefferson County, a mere 12 miles. It looks as if Madison and Milwaukee have a date with destiny to meet at a yet-to-be-built location somewhere around the intersection of Highway 26 and I-94 in the next decade.

— Blake George is managing principal of the Madison, Wisconsin, office of Lee & Associates.

[Suburbanite]

Originally Posted by globill

I agree. In an ideal world, they'd do both. I wonder if Elgin is pushing this extension as well as Rockford. When they extend a Metra Line it usually just goes out to a small boomtown in the exurbs. This extension would bring some 400,000 more people onto the line extending from Elgin. It really could have a huge impact on the city.

Don't expect Elgin to be too proactive in promoting that extention as long as the current Mayor is in power. He is far more concerned with annexing unincorporated farmtowns, and extending infrastructure to support all the sprawling subdivisions on the far west side. He's somewhat notorious for his neglect of downtown despite the huge potential for TOD.