The Chicago-Rockford-Madison-Milwaukee Megapolitan Watch Thread

[globill]

That's rather shortsighted of him.

Maybe if the proposal gains traction, the folks in Elgin will start to see the potential benefits of a half a million or so people being within an hour's train ride of Elgin.

[brewcityfan]

Originally Posted by SRG

Nice.

Thank you. It's pretty truthful, unless you've been to the Chicaukee area recently...

[globill]

for SRG







image hosted on flickr

[edsg25]

California is a vast world away from Chicago, but does anyone see some of the phenomina of expensive Bay Area and LA Area real estate pushing a lot of people to periheral areas like the Inland Empire east of LA and the close-in portions of the Central Valley for the Bay Area?

Could expensive Chicago real estate eventually create more of Southern California type of demographic in neIL/seWI????

[globill]

You're either up very early or very late ed...

not sure if I understand your ?

My own take on what's happening in the Chi-Mil-Mad-Roc quad is that the area between the four metros is cheaper, often has better schools and lower taxes (for families and companies alike), and offers residents more job options.

For example, if a family moves to Elkhorn in Walworth County, they can have access to all four metros' job markets, and good schools, and presumably non-corrupt efficient government.

I don't think it really compares to SF as the people who move inland really have no other choice financially. For them west is water, and north and south are every bit as expensive. By comparison, Chicagoans are spoiled for choice when it comes to affordable housing.

In California, I think people HAVE TO make drastic real estate decisions, in Chicagoland, it's more of a choice...

[globill]

DO NOT click this link

if you have a slow connection.....

if you go to 400% on the pdf image....the emerging quad becomes quite obvious...

especially when you imagine the 30 or so extra dots that live in the quad now....

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGal...s/2k_night.pdf

[sicarim]

I grew up in Rock county, and it was abundantly clear that this area really is slowly, but surely becoming one massive mega-tropolis so to speak. I knew people who actually worked in downtown chicago, and commuted from southern wisconsin.

Before i moved to the twin cities, there was talk of extending the commuter rail line which currently ends in Harvard, Ill, and extending it to Clinton, WI. That in itself says a lot about how much these areas are now dependant on each other. Its really quite fascinating.

[globill]

I always thought it odd that a small town like Harvard had train service while a city like Rockford, almost as far from Chicago, didn't.

It just shows how random certain transit decisions were made in the past.

[sicarim]

Originally Posted by globill

I always thought it odd that a small town like Harvard had train service while a city like Rockford, almost as far from Chicago, didn't.

It just shows how random certain transit decisions were made in the past.

I'm completely speculating, but it may have had something to do with what was considered the suburbs of chicago in the past. As close as rockford is, back when the line was first picked up by metra, rockford probably wasn't seen as a place people would commute daily to chicago from.

[JPmaverick]

The founders of Harvard built the train station in the mid-1800s to service and fuel passenger trains en route to Janesville and Madison from Chicago. Passenger rail was discontinued in 1965. Harvard became a secondary terminal for the passenger rail line (after Crystal Lake) and also served as an engine facility throughout the 1800s and early 1900s for C&NW Kenosha-Rockford trains. When Metra formed, Harvard was one stop along the original route that served Richmond (until 1980), Lake Geneva (until 1975) and Williams Bay (until 1966). Service is presently limited beyond Crystal Lake. Additionally, the Milwaukee Road Fox Lake line terminated in Walworth, WI until 1982. Wisconsin did not subsidize either of these lines which prompted Metra to scale back service.

[globill]

Interesting. I assume the tracks to Janesville/Madison are still in existence? If growth in the area continues at the current pace, there could be talk of restoring service between Harvard and Madison.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by globill

Interesting. I assume the tracks to Janesville/Madison are still in existence? If growth in the area continues at the current pace, there could be talk of restoring service between Harvard and Madison.

If the tracks to Janesville was from the Milwaukee road through Richmond than sadly no, the tracks in Richmond were converted to bike trails in the early 80's.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by brewcityfan

I don't think globill is such a visionary as you claim he is - he's instead a realist. He is seeing the inner workings of this area that others (until reading this thread) are beginning to just get a glimpse of.

The only major opposition to globill's comments are from SRG - a man from Oklahoma City that who knows when he last was up in this area (if at all).

Milwaukee and Chicago are truly merging, and merging faster by the month. Developments are sprouting up like you'd never believe.

Madison and Rockford are doing the same thing 70 miles to the west. Thanks to I-90 and I-43, the four cities are converging on each other.

brew, Chicagoland is massive, but in virtually every other direction is ebbs out...be that going east in Porter Co, IN, continuing west and northwest on the tollways crossing the Fox River, or south into the southern depths of Will County....not so going north to Milwaukee. There is not one stretch on the I-94 connection between the Chicagocentric areas of southern Kenosha County up to the northern portions of Racine County which are very much Milwaukee centered that truly give the impression of open space.

Both physically and perceptually in Chicago and Milwaukee, we have been evolving into a regional duo. If you live in Lake County, both Summerfest and Taste of Chicago are equal options. And all that intense Gurnee-to-Kenosha development is testimony that these two cities are part of something very major together.

Maybe people can't see that if they live away from the southwest shores of Lake Michigan. In Chicago and Milwaukee there is little doubt.

We're not quite Washington/Baltimore or even Los Angeles/San Diego...but we're getting there.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by globill

You're either up very early or very late ed...

not sure if I understand your ?

My own take on what's happening in the Chi-Mil-Mad-Roc quad is that the area between the four metros is cheaper, often has better schools and lower taxes (for families and companies alike), and offers residents more job options.

For example, if a family moves to Elkhorn in Walworth County, they can have access to all four metros' job markets, and good schools, and presumably non-corrupt efficient government.

I don't think it really compares to SF as the people who move inland really have no other choice financially. For them west is water, and north and south are every bit as expensive. By comparison, Chicagoans are spoiled for choice when it comes to affordable housing.

In California, I think people HAVE TO make drastic real estate decisions, in Chicagoland, it's more of a choice...

of course that's true, no question about it. but i have also seen young people in the north suburbs opt to move to Wisconsin just because it is a lot less expensive there.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by globill

DO NOT click this link

if you have a slow connection.....

if you go to 400% on the pdf image....the emerging quad becomes quite obvious...

especially when you imagine the 30 or so extra dots that live in the quad now....

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGal...s/2k_night.pdf

Fascinating, globill...thanks so much for sharing.

My conclusions (and I'd like to know if others see the same thing):

outside of the northeast corridor, there are no connections between major cities int heir own metro areas being joined to other major cities in their own metro areas than the following two:

LA/SD
Chgo/Milw

(note I'm not thinking a metro area with more than one city...thus discounting:

Mpls/StP
SF/Oak/SJ
Dal/FW)

[globill]

Originally Posted by edsg25

of course that's true, no question about it. but i have also seen young people in the north suburbs opt to move to Wisconsin just because it is a lot less expensive there.

That's interesting that you bring this up because I think it is one of the many forces creating the mega-region. The northern suburbs (and northwestern areas as well) have for generations been the sort of Holy Land for immigrants (and their children) due to housing, education, prestige etc. The German-Americans who settled much of the area were joined by successive waves of well-to do Irish, Scandinavians, Jewish, and eastern European nouveau riche. And today we are seeing the same with Asian Americans and Indian Americans sacrificing so their kids can have a North Shore childhood & education.

And many who grew up there can't afford to stay when they are young and opt to move further north. This is not the dynamic in other directions away from the city. Generally, if someone grows up in the western/southern/NW Indiana burbs they can well afford to stay put.

[globill]

Originally Posted by bnk

If the tracks to Janesville was from the Milwaukee road through Richmond than sadly no, the tracks in Richmond were converted to bike trails in the early 80's.

Maybe the rails to trails movement might be reversed someday. As long as the corridor is preserved....new tracks can always be laid.

[KrazyKarl]

Originally Posted by globill

Maybe the rails to trails movement might be reversed someday. As long as the corridor is preserved....new tracks can always be laid.

Based on a preliminary google earth satellite inspection, it looks like the Harvard to Janesville line is still in use...I can see the tracks okay, and it looks like there are a few cars sitting on an offshoot near Sharon. The line that went from Harvard to Poplar Grove/Rockton/Beloit has been converted to a bikepath though (and a nice one at that.)

[globill]

Thanks Karl!

As much as I appreciate bike trails built over rail lines, it'd be nice to see rail lines preserved for future use in certain places...

[JPmaverick]

Several proposals are chugging along to improve rail transportation within the region. The following is an update on each project:

INTERCITY RAIL

Milwaukee-Madison Amtrak Extension
As part of the broader Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, the Milwaukee-Madison corridor has achieved key milestones. Wisconsin has finished all economic and environmental studies. The state purchased the tracks from Watertown to Madison and completed preliminary engineering. Sen. Kohl (D-WI) secured federal funds for infrastructure improvements. The state approved $48 million in bonding authority and Gov. Doyle proposed an additional $32 million to meet the state requirement for federal matching funds. Budget negotiations are ongoing. The state Legislature is also considering ratifying the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Compact. The project will move forward if the legislature approves the state funds and Congress appropriates the $320 million needed to begin construction.

Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque Amtrak Extension
Amtrak and IDOT completed a feasibility study earlier this year on the proposed revival of the Black Hawk line. IDOT held public meetings and met with local officials and railroad representatives to refine the study. IDOT registered strong public support and regional cooperation for the project and selected the original, direct route along Amtrak-CN tracks as the most economically viable option. RATS (Rockford Area Transportation Study) board endorsed the IDOT recommendations. Amtrak and IDOT are continuing negotiations with CN over capacity and infrastructure issues. Illinois did not include any funds for the project in the current budget; however state lawmakers may opt to fight for an allocation from the state capital fund. Currently $32 million is needed for capital funding and $2.5 million for infrastructure improvements.

COMMUTER RAIL

South Central Wisconsin Commuter Study
Wisconsin began a feasibility study last year to include rail alternatives to transportation proposals throughout the region. The study seeks to enhance rail-based work-related connections between Madison and Janesville-Beloit-Rockford and Janesville-Beloit to Rockford and NE Illinois. The study has broadened to include recreational connections between Madison and Chicago. The initial report is being refined and the study group is moving forward with the first phase of an alternatives analysis. The final conclusion of the study will be whether a full alternatives analysis should be pursued. Most importantly, this analysis is required for FTA regulatory approval and additional state funding.

NICTI (Northern Illinois Commuter Transportation Initiative)
NICTI completed the first phase of the alternatives analysis. Based on the initial findings, several transportation options were identified and subsequently narrowed to focus on commuter rail (two suggested routes) and/or bus rapid transit (via I-90). The study is now reviewing these options to determine the local preferred alternative (2-3 months). The next step will be an environmental assessment (6 months). If the FTA approves the findings, NICTI may begin preliminary engineering.

KRM (Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee) Commuter Rail
The Southeastern Wisconsin RTA (RTA) completed feasibility, economic and environmental studies. Congress previously earmarked $90 million for the project. Gov. Doyle proposed $1 million in preliminary engineering. The Wisconsin Senate approved a $13 per-car-rental increase (dedicated funding source for operating costs) prompting the RTA to file a FTA New Starts grant application. The Wisconsin Senate also approved $50 million in bonds and a feasibility study for expanding the KRM line into northern Milwaukee County. The Wisconsin Assembly approved $800K for preliminary engineering but opposes the bonds and car rental increase. Both measures are part of an ongoing budget negotiation. The New Starts grant is contingent upon the state approving a dedicated funding source.

Dane County Commuter Rail
The Dane County Board and Madison City Council passed resolutions endorsing the creation of a RTA. The county resolution specified any city-county application for federal transportation funds will focus on a commuter rail system while the city resolution omitted any reference to specific projects. Both city and county leaders propose a 0.5% increase in the sales tax to fund the RTA. The Wisconsin Legislature must approve the RTA, after which Dane County residents will vote on the sales tax increase (by 2010 or later). These measures must pass to receive regulatory approval and federal funds. City officials predict the first line could be up and running by 2014 if the project moves forward.