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Old January 31st, 2011, 10:14 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The 2+1 setup is definitely much safer than the wide 1x2 setup with shoulders which turns the road into a de-facto 1x4 setup where it wasn't designed for.
that's what i wanted to say exactly. i anm horrified of those 1+1 roads with wide shoulders. in HR we have only one (D2 Koprivnica - Vara˛din) but thank god we don't have in common such driving.
when there was expressway instead of A6, it had similar traffic managment and it was called the road of death.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 12:05 AM   #222
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Sometimes you see this set up on rural highways in Australia

http://expressway.paulrands.com/gall...sta/index.html
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Old February 1st, 2011, 02:21 AM   #223
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that's what i wanted to say exactly. i anm horrified of those 1+1 roads with wide shoulders. in HR we have only one (D2 Koprivnica - Vara˛din) but thank god we don't have in common such driving.
when there was expressway instead of A6, it had similar traffic managment and it was called the road of death.
I also prefer 2+1 profile than 1,5+1,5. Unfortunately, on wide single carriageways in Poland you can see 1,5+1,5 more often than 2+1.

And we have such dangerous “road of death” in Poland too. It’s road 7 between Gdańsk and Warsaw with few expressway sections (as yet) and mostly with 1,5+1,5 profile.


But this time pictures of:
road number 7 between Kraków and Kielce
(author: marco.406, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=361, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=362)











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Old February 1st, 2011, 02:27 AM   #224
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And that’s why 2+1 lanes sections are better than 1,5+1,5 - drivers don’t need to make such actions then:

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Old February 3rd, 2011, 07:29 AM   #225
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2+1 with different railing

E4 north of Örnsköldsvik (Sweden). This is the only stretch I've seen this kind of railing on.

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Old November 1st, 2011, 06:09 PM   #226
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*bump*

A bunch from Sweden, E4 in Norrland

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerstins_mail/6181936487/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerstins_mail/6181844285/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerstins_mail/6181768324/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerstin...57627853386868

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Old November 1st, 2011, 06:30 PM   #227
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iN Brazil 2x1 road

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Old November 2nd, 2011, 01:56 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron2K View Post


You can overtake into the oncoming lane if you're on the x1 side of the road on our ones, but the traffic is generally low enough to make this unnecessary.

(EDIT: For those wondering where that is - N1 between the Molenaar River Valley and Worcester.)
I think usually in South Africa a 2+1 lane arrangement is used where a road that is mainly 1+1 climbs up a hill and so an extra lane is added so that slow vehicles can be overtaken more easily when going uphill. Usually in that case it is not permitted for vehicles travelling downhill to overtake by crossing into the other side of the road, and a solid double white line indicates this.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #229
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B406 in Germany, approaching Luxembourg





Then, a 2+1 in Luxembourg, Main Road 2 after Remich if I recall it correctly:



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Old December 12th, 2011, 11:38 PM   #230
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D45 in HR















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Old December 13th, 2011, 08:41 AM   #231
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Finland

The history of 2+1 road in Finland dates back to 1970's. Initially, the third lane was a crawling lane for trucks and other slow vehicles to climb uphill. As the rules were unclear, the system was changes rather soon: The middle lane became an overtaking lane for the uphill traffic. These first generation 2+1 sections were rather short, and not very widespread. There were kind of a firefighting to relieve the paint at the most problematic spots.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=60.29247,2...144.38,,0,8.67

The second generation 2+1 sections were much longer, and a number of those were built. Somewere in the 1990's, the traffic rules changed: It is not any more allowed to overtake using the overtaking lane of the opposite direction.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.61717,2...12,108.85,,0,0

The second generation 2+1 sections are still being built as point solutions. The third generation road is a so called 'continuous overtaking lane road'. It is a long road section with frequently repeating overtaking lanes. The road is partly 1+1 and partly 2+1 (or even 2+2 if the overtaking lanes happen to run in parallel).

Many (but not all) of the 3rd generation 2+1 sections are equipped with the middle barrier. The design resembles the Swedish roads, but still is rather different:



The Swedish solution was to convert the existing 13 metres wide 1+1 roads to 2+1 roads. In Finland, that road type is rare. Instead, the typical 9 metres wide roads must be partly rebuilt. The Finnish solution is 14.25 metres wide in minimum, thus allowing wider lanes than the Swedish minimum solution. There is a room to carefully overtake a tractor on the single-lane side.

Often, a parallel road is built for the local and agriculture traffic to improve the safety.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.945432,...=12,346.6,,0,0

A left turn is forbidden in many places in the name of safety. Instead, there is an arrangement to make a right turn, and then to cross the road.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=60.37499,2...,88.67,,1,5.11
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Old December 13th, 2011, 10:59 AM   #232
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iN Brazil 2x1 road

image hosted on flickr
Look at the fvckwit in the truck! Lanes? what lanes? This is my road
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Old December 13th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #233
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*bump*

A bunch from Sweden, E4 in Norrland

image hosted on flickr
In Australia, these are often promoted as some sort of awesome solution for road safety where there are head on crashes occurring.

What I don't understand is why people aren't aware that the brifen fencing doesn't deflect a vehicle, it will actually slacken by about 1.5-2m, basically taking the offending vehicle well into the opposite lane and still causing a head-on crash.

I suppose it reduces the risk somewhat - e.g. the vehicle won't cross BOTH lanes - but I am very surprised that this problem is never discussed.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by crazyknightsfan View Post
In Australia, these are often promoted as some sort of awesome solution for road safety where there are head on crashes occurring.

What I don't understand is why people aren't aware that the brifen fencing doesn't deflect a vehicle, it will actually slacken by about 1.5-2m, basically taking the offending vehicle well into the opposite lane and still causing a head-on crash.

I suppose it reduces the risk somewhat - e.g. the vehicle won't cross BOTH lanes - but I am very surprised that this problem is never discussed.
The middle barrier is usually strong enough to stand the collision and keep the vehicle on its side of the road. The collision seldom hits the barrier at a large angle.



Of course, it is discussed. Every new type of protection mechanism leaves some residual risk, and introduces new risks. It the benefit of the mechanism is better than the drawbacks (including the cost), it is worth putting in place.

The Swedish statistics show that the middle barrier has reduced the number of frontal collisions by 90-95 per cent and the fatalities by 75 per cent compared to similar roads without separation.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 01:15 PM   #235
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The middle barrier is usually strong enough to stand the collision and keep the vehicle on its side of the road. The collision seldom hits the barrier at a large angle.
I've seen the crash tests done for these barriers and they don't "stand the collision" they slacken about 1.5-2m (obviously depends on the angle of the vehicle hitting it) and then drag the vehicle back onto the same side of the road.

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Of course, it is discussed.
I've not seen/heard it discussed here (in Oz). Good to hear it is discussed elsewhere.

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Every new type of protection mechanism leaves some residual risk, and introduces new risks. It the benefit of the mechanism is better than the drawbacks (including the cost), it is worth putting in place.

The Swedish statistics show that the middle barrier has reduced the number of frontal collisions by 90-95 per cent and the fatalities by 75 per cent compared to similar roads without separation.
Agree.

I suspect a large contributing factor is the perception that the barrier creates - i.e. when its just painted lines people will be less careful as nothing happens to them if they get lazy and cross the lines, whereas if there's a barrier there then they will take more care make sure they don't hit it.
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Last edited by crazyknightsfan; December 13th, 2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #236
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Quote:
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I've seen the crash tests done for these barriers and they don't "stand the collision" they slacken about 1.5-2m (obviously depends on the angle of the vehicle hitting it) and then drag the vehicle back onto the same side of the road.
That depends on the material of the barrier. A wire rope behaves differently from a W-beam or a pipe-fence, for instance.

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Old December 13th, 2011, 07:38 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The Swedish solution was to convert the existing 13 metres wide 1+1 roads to 2+1 roads. In Finland, that road type is rare. Instead, the typical 9 metres wide roads must be partly rebuilt. The Finnish solution is 14.25 metres wide in minimum, thus allowing wider lanes than the Swedish minimum solution.
There are 2+1 roads which have been built widening the road from 9m here too. An example near my town, which is 14m wide: http://maps.google.fi/maps?q=Gubb%C3...,274,,0,0&z=14
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Old December 13th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The history of 2+1 road in Finland dates back to 1970's. Initially, the third lane was a crawling lane for trucks and other slow vehicles to climb uphill. As the rules were unclear, the system was changes rather soon: The middle lane became an overtaking lane for the uphill traffic. These first generation 2+1 sections were rather short, and not very widespread. There were kind of a firefighting to relieve the paint at the most problematic spots.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=60.29247,2...144.38,,0,8.67

The second generation 2+1 sections were much longer, and a number of those were built. Somewere in the 1990's, the traffic rules changed: It is not any more allowed to overtake using the overtaking lane of the opposite direction.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.61717,2...12,108.85,,0,0

The second generation 2+1 sections are still being built as point solutions. The third generation road is a so called 'continuous overtaking lane road'. It is a long road section with frequently repeating overtaking lanes. The road is partly 1+1 and partly 2+1 (or even 2+2 if the overtaking lanes happen to run in parallel).

Many (but not all) of the 3rd generation 2+1 sections are equipped with the middle barrier. The design resembles the Swedish roads, but still is rather different:



The Swedish solution was to convert the existing 13 metres wide 1+1 roads to 2+1 roads. In Finland, that road type is rare. Instead, the typical 9 metres wide roads must be partly rebuilt. The Finnish solution is 14.25 metres wide in minimum, thus allowing wider lanes than the Swedish minimum solution. There is a room to carefully overtake a tractor on the single-lane side.

Often, a parallel road is built for the local and agriculture traffic to improve the safety.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.945432,...=12,346.6,,0,0

A left turn is forbidden in many places in the name of safety. Instead, there is an arrangement to make a right turn, and then to cross the road.

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=60.37499,2...,88.67,,1,5.11
I must nevertheless say that most of the Swedish (former 13m-wide-roads) that recently been converted to 2x1 (collision-free) type roads have been rahter widened somewhat similar to 14 meter-model than remained their original shape as "under 13-meter-wide"..check for example förbifart Sala (Sala-ringway) so in that respect in reality they are more similar to the "finnish drawing" on your diagram than the "Swedish one".
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Old December 13th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #239
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The Sala bypass was a complete new build if I recall correctly.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #240
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The Sala bypass was a complete new build if I recall correctly.
hm.is that some sort of disegreement with my statement.?
In any case there`s a lot of other examples of modern 2x1 roads than RV 70
yep, the major part of it, except for Salarakan samt the northenmost connection to the rest of the Riksväg 70 within the Västmanland but even Dalarna has undoubtedly been new build, but nevertheless, rebuld in accordance to the current standard of how 2x1 roads are expected to look like - which is wider than 12,25m and definitely not acc.to the dimensions that Matti showed here
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