daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 13th, 2010, 01:35 AM   #121
dizee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dublin, IE
Posts: 113
Likes (Received): 0

They trialled these roads in Ireland on a few new build schemes (with wire barriers) but they've now dropped them from the official standards. The reasoning being that it's not that much more expensive to build 2+2 if you're starting from scratch. Which is fair enough, especially since our terrain isn't that difficult.

Also they don't seem to work as well here, possibly because the signage warning you when the overtaking lane is going to end isn't clear enough. People are reluctant to go to that lane for fear of being cut-off (plus in general a scary proportion of the population seem to think the 2nd lane is a "fast lane" and they can just sit out there as long as they want!).

Another thing is that slow vehicles are technically allowed drive in the hard-shoulder for most roads here to let other cars pass so there's actually not a huge benefit for 2+1 vs WS2 (wide 2-lane roads).
dizee está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 13th, 2010, 04:18 AM   #122
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
1) Name your country.
2) Do 2+1 roads have safety barrier in your country?
3) AADT. What is the max. and min. value of AADT for 2+1 in your country? And what is the recommended AADT value?
4) What is the max. allowed driving speed on 2+1 roads in your country?
5) Do intersections are allowed in one level?

If it's possible then please add a picture with cross section scheme.
1. Norway
2. The new ones yes. The older ones is gradually getting barriers installed or replaced with motorways. Not many left. And those that still are there is mostly stretches up steep hills.
3. 1+1, 2+1 and very narrow 2+2 roads are choosed for roads with expected traffic between 8 000 and 12 000 AaDT 20 years after the road is finished. However, the expectations are pretty low, and most roads tends to have much more traffic than the goverment expect. Meaning that most roads is outdated only a few years after it's finished. Sometimes even before it's finished.
4. 90 km/h
5. Grade-separated junctions is the norm, but roundabouts may in special cases be allowed.

This is the cross sections for the S5-profile. Rural roads with traffic between 8 000 and 12 000 AaDT.




The rule is to build 1+1 roads, with minimum 2 stretches of 1+2 in each direction where the passing lane is minimum 1,5 km for each 10 km of road.
So 6 km will be 1+2 and 4 km will be 1+1.
Norwegian roadbuilding in a nutshell.
You won't see longer stretches with 2+1 road.

The narrow 2+2 road has so far only been used on three stretches. One as a test-project, that will be expanded to motorway the next 10 years. And two as replacements for the 19 meter motorway we have in Norway to reduce costs and save the environment.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #123
Jevpls
Registered User
 
Jevpls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riga
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 6

Kjello0, what about slower traffic (like tractors)? Are they allowed on such roads?

Imagine that right after leaving 2+1 and getting on 1+1, you see a slow tractor that's driving with 20 km per hour. You realize that passing line won't be that soon...Do they move right on that wide shoulder to pass you by?
Jevpls no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2010, 01:31 PM   #124
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

All traffic that can drive over 40 km/h is allowed on these roads. And the newer kind of tractors easily do 55 km/h.

If there's no local alternative to the road, all kind of traffic is allowed. But then the speed limit would also be 80 km/h. However, there is pretty much always a local alternative.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2010, 02:59 PM   #125
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender56 View Post
I found a picture of the Danish standards for 2+2 highways vs 2+1 roads. And alone the amount of land a 2+1 road occupies is 1/3 less than the 2+2 highway, and if you do not use bridges for crossing traffic, we are way under half the price for a 2+1 vs a 2+2.

But are they the right choice for us in Denmark, I start to doubt, we have no mountains but a lot of cheep farmland.:



Why on earth so wide? And why not four lanes the last one?
In Norway we build so called "Narrow motorways" all the way from 19 meters.


While normal motorways is built all the way from 22 meters.


As you can see the only difference is the size of the hard shoulder.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #126
Jevpls
Registered User
 
Jevpls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Riga
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Why on earth so wide? And why not four lanes the last one?
In Latvia we got official cross section NP 20,5 (as seen below):


For some time NP 29,5 is used more often than NP 20,5. Theoretically it is because of safety - wider shoulders, wider driving lanes and so on...but I don't see any problems why NP 20,5 couldn't be used instead or more expensive NP 29,5. Out AADT values are not that large to worry.

And I added official Latvian 2+1 road cross section scheme. It's a theoretical one (I guess that it's taken from Germans) because we haven't got any 2+1s yet. If there are 2+1s sometime, then definitely will be some changes done.

Jevpls no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #127
Fender56
Registered User
 
Fender56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Esbjerg, Denmark
Posts: 1,375
Likes (Received): 528

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Why on earth so wide? And why not four lanes the last one?
You have to remember Norway, as I know it, is mainly mountains, compared to flat Denmark. We just push the earth away and build the road, and we have plenty of room for that. You yourself know how it is up there....

The comparison between the to types of road you mention. If you look close, the 2+2 motorway actually is paved with asphalt in 3+3 lanes which is the double of the other, that makes a big difference in the costs.!

The new 2+1 roads here in Denmark has no emergency lanes, like on the highways. A way to save money, I guess.

This is the actual layout of the newest 2+1 in Denmark.:



If you look at the asphalt on the 2+1 it is 12,50m wide and the 2+2 highway uses 25m of asphalt.

__________________
Always look at the bright side of life....

Last edited by Fender56; April 13th, 2010 at 08:25 PM.
Fender56 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2010, 02:46 PM   #128
koloite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gildehaus
Posts: 62
Likes (Received): 1

120 km/h limit on 2+1 road

The German A98 runs from Kreuze Hegau to Stockach. There it transforms into a single carriage 2+1 road called B31n (neu/new) (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...32093&t=h&z=14). The interesting thing about this road is that it has a speed limit of 120 km/h. As far as I know, that is the highest speed limit on a single carriage road without any physical median in Europe. The speed limit is 120 km/h regardless of you are on the side with 1 or 2 lanes.

A couple of pictures of the road:


koloite no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #129
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

Can you (legally) pass the car in front if you are on the side with one lane?
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #130
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,466
Likes (Received): 3437

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Can you (legally) pass the car in front if you are on the side with one lane?
if the line is solid - not. if the line is dashed - yes. as much as i see on google earth line is everywhere solid, so no overpassing (but each 1-2 km 2+1 changes into 1+2 so there are no problems)
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 10:23 AM   #131
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Of course not, those are the basics of driving. Solid line = not passing, broken line = passing. That's why those "Mehrzweckstreifen"-type of roads are conflicting with basic road rules.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 03:38 PM   #132
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

I didn't put the right question. I wanted to ask what type of road markings there are:



A or B ?
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #133
mapman:cz
Ministerskż rada
 
mapman:cz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU - CZ
Posts: 1,105
Likes (Received): 202

AFAIK it's A) with double solid dividing line...
__________________
mapman
mapman:cz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 07:52 PM   #134
fetg_
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
1. Norway
2. The new ones yes. The older ones is gradually getting barriers installed or replaced with motorways. Not many left. And those that still are there is mostly stretches up steep hills.
3. 1+1, 2+1 and very narrow 2+2 roads are choosed for roads with expected traffic between 8 000 and 12 000 AaDT 20 years after the road is finished. However, the expectations are pretty low, and most roads tends to have much more traffic than the goverment expect. Meaning that most roads is outdated only a few years after it's finished. Sometimes even before it's finished.
4. 90 km/h
5. Grade-separated junctions is the norm, but roundabouts may in special cases be allowed.

This is the cross sections for the S5-profile. Rural roads with traffic between 8 000 and 12 000 AaDT.




The rule is to build 1+1 roads, with minimum 2 stretches of 1+2 in each direction where the passing lane is minimum 1,5 km for each 10 km of road.
So 6 km will be 1+2 and 4 km will be 1+1.
Norwegian roadbuilding in a nutshell.
You won't see longer stretches with 2+1 road.

The narrow 2+2 road has so far only been used on three stretches. One as a test-project, that will be expanded to motorway the next 10 years. And two as replacements for the 19 meter motorway we have in Norway to reduce costs and save the environment.
16,5 vs 14,5 hmm. You can't save much money by building new 1+2 roads instead of new 2+2. Espeacially when you build them with grade separated junctions.

Upgrading existing broad 1+1 corridors to 1+2 seems more reasonable, since it doesn't require any widening.
fetg_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2010, 09:14 PM   #135
koloite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gildehaus
Posts: 62
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
AFAIK it's A) with double solid dividing line...
This road had A), as most 2+1 roads in Germany have. I have only seen B) on mountain roads where the passing lane is added to the direction that is climbing, but where overtaking while going downhill is also allowed.
koloite no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #136
Di-brazil
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 279
Likes (Received): 1

In brazil :

[IMG]http://i26.************/2wg4r38.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i27.************/2wee69x.jpg[/IMG]








Last edited by Di-brazil; June 20th, 2010 at 01:13 AM.
Di-brazil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2010, 11:55 AM   #137
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,452
Likes (Received): 1932

In Spain there are few 2+1 roads. This is the N-II to the Northeast of Mataró. It has 2+1 lanes, but the two laned direction changes quite often.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2010, 07:25 AM   #138
Di-brazil
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 279
Likes (Received): 1

Di-brazil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:14 AM   #139
kowal 3D
Precz z komuną!
 
kowal 3D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 3,016
Likes (Received): 612

1,5m more and it'll be 1x4
__________________
"Jeżeli wolność słowa w ogóle coś oznacza, to oznacza prawo do mówienia ludziom tego, czego nie chcą słyszeć."
kowal 3D no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2010, 01:21 PM   #140
BWG95
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
As I'm collecting information about 2+1 roads, I would be grateful for some information. If it's not hard for you then, please, try to answer these questions:

1) Name your country.
2) Do 2+1 roads have safety barrier in your country?
3) AADT. What is the max. and min. value of AADT for 2+1 in your country? And what is the recommended AADT value?
4) What is the max. allowed driving speed on 2+1 roads in your country?
5) Do intersections are allowed in one level?

If it's possible then please add a picture with cross section scheme.

[If something from these questions is answered in previous pages then ignore it.]

Thanks in advance.

1) Sweden
2) Most of the time they have barriers, always on the new ones.
3) I guess that most 2+1 roads have an AADT between 5000 and 10000, but that's just a wild guess.
4) 100 km/h is the standard speed limit on our 2+1 roads.
5) That depends on if the road is classified as motortrafikled (autostrasse) or just a normal road (landsväg). One level intersections are very usual on normal rural roads with 2+1. Autostrasses always have grade separated intersections, not even roundabouts are allowed on them. A "normal" 2+1 road though usually have roundabouts and offramps when going thorugh cities instead of the usual left turn lane intersections.
BWG95 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium