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Old August 3rd, 2010, 08:45 AM   #161
Jevpls
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Are you sure that it isn't a usual 2x2 without safety barrier?
And if it is some 2+1+2, what is the idea of it? On 2+1 additional lane allow faster drivers to pass by slower ones. On 2+2 you can do it without problems, because there are 2 lanes in each direction. What is the point of another one in the middle? It should create only accidents.
I know such place in Latvia (the beginning of road A6). But this lane is only for emergency vehicles and not for usual ones.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:04 PM   #162
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The middle lane is used as a turning lane for cars wanting to turn at a left junctions.
This removes the need for an exit lane and overpass bridge since it's technically a 2x2.

http://www.wiserealestateinc.com/upl...-_WREI_026.JPG
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Old August 4th, 2010, 05:21 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanterberg View Post
E18 Trafikplats Västjädra (127) – Trafikplats Strö (123)
A potentially deadly head-on collision was avoided here. These steel cable barriers have been heavily criticised for being dangerous for motorcyclists.
The cable barriers are LETHAL for motorcyclists. If a rider lays his/her bike down, and slides into the barrier, the cable acts as a guillotine and said rider is decapitated. Here in BC, Canada, they are illegal to use. No-Post (concrete barrier) is most commonly used instead.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:17 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
The cable barriers are LETHAL for motorcyclists. If a rider lays his/her bike down, and slides into the barrier, the cable acts as a guillotine and said rider is decapitated. Here in BC, Canada, they are illegal to use. No-Post (concrete barrier) is most commonly used instead.
I agree, these cable barriers should be replaced.

Still, even with steel cable barriers this road is safer for motorcyclists than an ordinary road. Motorcyclists are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured on a regular 1+1 or a 2+1 without steel cable barriers.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #165
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What about barriers on both sides of road (picture above). They seem to be from steel cable or at least look like them. Are they really necessary?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
What about barriers on both sides of road (picture above). They seem to be from steel cable or at least look like them. Are they really necessary?
Yes, if there are trees or rocks or something at the side of the road. As you can see in the pictures, there is fencing on the side of the road in some sections and not in others. The idea is to build a “forgiving” road environment that protects drivers and passengers in the event of a crash. If there are trees or other hard obstacles at the side of the road you need a security barrier.

The whole idea is to design the road, the junctions, the median and the road side in this “forgiving” way. If you do, people who follow the speed limit and wear seatbelts should survive and not be seriously injured even if they crash.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 03:37 PM   #167
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I understand the idea of "forgiving road" but probably you didn't understand me correctly.

Are these side barriers of steel cable? If they are then what about biker safety?
Usually driving off the road isn't that dangerous as head-on collision and [if there is no barrier] in most cases it ends with damaged car or minor injuries only. But if biker crashes into such cable barrier then he might get killed. Maybe he would survive without it?

That's theoretically only.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
I understand the idea of "forgiving road" but probably you didn't understand me correctly.

Are these side barriers of steel cable? If they are then what about biker safety?
Usually driving off the road isn't that dangerous as head-on collision and [if there is no barrier] in most cases it ends with damaged car or minor injuries only. But if biker crashes into such cable barrier then he might get killed. Maybe he would survive without it?

That's theoretically only.
Sorry for the misunderstanding
I think the best solution is to use another type of barrier alltogether.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanterberg View Post
I think the best solution is to use another type of barrier alltogether.
That might the the best solution. By the way, don't know now anything about price difference between steel cable barriers and these ones (or similar)?

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Old August 4th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevpls View Post
That might the the best solution. By the way, don't know now anything about price difference between steel cable barriers and these ones (or similar)?

That style of barrier is MUCH better than a cable barrier. Far more effective too. While a little more expensive than cable barrier, they make up for that in proven effectiveness. The Province of Alberta, Canada uses this style of barrier exclusively with very few exceptions where concrete barrier is used.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #171
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[QUOTE=Jevpls;61427683Are these side barriers of steel cable? If they are then what about biker safety? But if biker crashes into such cable barrier then he might get killed. Maybe he would survive without it?[/QUOTE]

Yes, those pics are of steel cable barriers. Refer to my earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
The cable barriers are LETHAL for motorcyclists. If a rider lays his/her bike down, and slides into the barrier, the cable acts as a guillotine and said rider is decapitated. Here in BC, Canada, they are illegal to use. No-Post (concrete barrier) is most commonly used instead.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM   #172
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I'm sorry, but such continuous barriers are just as lethal to motorcyclists as cable barriers. It doesn't matter if your head gets chopped off by a cable or a pole from a barrier, it's pretty bad either way.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #173
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1X1

1x1 - safe but boring?

Here’s a few pictures from a road that opened just a few weeks ago in central Sweden (National road 49 in Närke province). It’s not really a 2+1, but rather a 1+1 with a barrier. I don’t know the forum terminology for this type of road – maybe it should be called a 1x1-road?

This road has the highest possible safety standard, but it is not grade-separated. Although it is mostly 1+1 there are few two-lane stretches for overtaking.

The AADT for this particular road is 2500 vehicles per day, so it works in terms of capacity. Speed limit 100 km/h.

Safe? Yes, very much so. Fun to drive? Not really…






It’s not grade-separated, but left turns are eliminated because you still need to turn right in order to go left.




The intersection. Turn right to turn left… this setup reduces the time the vehicle is exposed to other traffic and increases safety.


A two-lane stretch for overtaking. But do it quickly, it’s only 600 meters long.


Another intersection coming up ahead.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #174
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2x1 (2 roadways with 1 lane each).

Nice pictures. Such roads are annoying with a lot of traffic as you cannot pass a slower vehicle. But I guess it's not a big problem at 2,500 vehicles per day. Also, what do you do if a truck gets a breakdown at a 1 lane section? There's no shoulder.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:35 PM   #175
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Thanks for the info and photos kanterberg.

I think too that 1 lane is boring.

Anyway I guess low AADT apologizes building 1+1 instead of 2+1 road.

Quote:

It’s not grade-separated, but left turns are eliminated because you still need to turn right in order to go left.
I think I read this kind of interchange is called spanish interchange.

Last edited by rarse; August 15th, 2010 at 10:14 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #176
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Some photos of 2+1 roads in Sweden
source


Road 636, between Vikingstad and Linköping






Road 108, between Trelleborg and Svedala






Road 50, north of Hovsta (Orebro)










E18, between Kristinehamn and Karlskoga




Road 50, between Östansjö and Åsbro




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Old August 15th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #177
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In Belgium 1+2 and 2+1 roads are very common and every city +40.000 has one. These are the old roads that where used to called "steenweg" wich means: paved road, because before the Industrial revolution these used to be the only roads that where paved outside some mainstreets in city centers. They are mostly layed in straight lines between cities and towns and are still used a lot today by regional traffic. This is something tipical for Belgium and can't be found in The Netherlands for instance.

This is the N3 road between Brussels and Liège. This road was first constructed by the Romans. Then during the middle ages It became the main road between Aachen and Brussels. Later on several other cities like mine(Sint-Truiden) developped next to this road. Untill the construction of the E40 highway in the 50ties this road maintained the main connection between Brussels and Liège. Back then it was a road with suicide lanes. Now siucide lanes are forbidden in Flanders(but still in use in Wallonia!!!!) and the old roads where turned into 2+1 raods.

Some examples of the N3 near Sint-Truiden:

Before entering the City:





Then it becomes a normal 1+1 raod near the city due to safty reasons because there are a lot of warehouses next to this road.



This part serves as a ring road around the city. It has now become a 2x2 road without a crashbarrier dividing the lanes.



Here is corsses the N80 at a point where is becomes a 2x2 road. The N80 is partially an old connection road to the city of Namur and partially newly constructed(part between Sint-Truiden and Hasselt)



When leaving the city again in the direction of Liège the road turns into a 1+1 road with seperated turning lanes at crossing points.



Here you can see that the N3(Road at the bottom going form West to East) is a now a bypass road around the city. The N80 is also a bypass road (The road that comes from Nord-East and goes to the South.)

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Old August 16th, 2010, 12:17 AM   #178
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I remember driving on 1x3 with suicide lane in Flanders some 3 years ago. I am not sure if it's still in that shape or has been rebuilt, however google shows it as it was back then:



It is more or less where the blue line indicates:




Btw; I find Swedish 2+1 or 1+1 model as a solution which having been implemented in Poland on larger scale, would definitely reduced number of fatalities.

Last edited by piotr71; August 16th, 2010 at 01:16 AM.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #179
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Quote:
piotr71;62035741]I remember driving on 1x3 with suicide lane in Flanders some 3 years ago. I am not sure if it's still in that shape or has been rebuilt, however google shows it as it was back then:
In time al suicide roads should be history, but it might take on several years before that...
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Old August 16th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #180
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Don't know how to call this but it's the N2 between Leuven and Diest, its a 1x3 road but with a seperated buslane.

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