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Old March 4th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #2561
Le Clerk
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Most companies are western European, some are Romanian. Most of them are well known actually. Are you interested in a particular company?
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Old March 4th, 2011, 10:10 PM   #2562
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I agree, but even if there is some delay, you still have a contract and financing for the stretch with the Chinese, while otherwise there would be no work there, right?
no. wrong assumption. it is better to do it with the right company.

if the construction company steps back, you need to carry on the bid from scratch (lots of hassles). and this is where problem sits. a 1-2 year delay. now if the right company where chosen you wouldn't have this lag.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 10:12 PM   #2563
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Yep, the Polish have some experience in that area unfortunately... (A1, A4 and DK4 Ropczyce)
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Old March 5th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #2564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
no. wrong assumption. it is better to do it with the right company.

if the construction company steps back, you need to carry on the bid from scratch (lots of hassles). and this is where problem sits. a 1-2 year delay. now if the right company where chosen you wouldn't have this lag.
Well, yes, but there are many right companies, but also much more problems, and even famous companies may fail (see the Vinci/Aktor pull-out from the Comarnic-Brasov PPP because they failed to find the necessary financing - this has set off this project 3 years behind ).
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Old March 5th, 2011, 02:57 PM   #2565
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^ Yup, the Vinci/Aktor pull-out was a big disappointment . Still, I will always prefer a strategic pull-out before the start of the works, comparing to the shameful and very annoying pull-outs during the works, like all the Greek companies have done in Romania in the last 10 years (Efklidis, Prodeftiki etc) .
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Old March 5th, 2011, 03:56 PM   #2566
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In that regard, there should be some sort of black list, where previous quality of work or conduct should have a point based reflection in the assesment.

Also, if companies know that grave mistakes on contracts (quality or otherwise) would pretty much exclude them from future works, they may up their game.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #2567
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Fresh pics from Mures Bridge construction site, part of Arad bypass future motorway:


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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Asa cum v-am promis, poze caldute de la podul peste Mures din Arad:

Culeea dinspre aeroport:



Vedere spre Timisoara:



Deschiderea viitorului pod:



Santierul din cartierul Alfa:



Plan apropiat: culeea dinspre aeroport
Plan indepartat: culeea dinspre Timisoara (pe celalalt mal al Muresului)



Viaductul de acces la pod incepe sa capete contur:

Dupa ce am facut poza cred ca strigat unul din muncitori ceva la mine. Problema e ca erau muncitori maghiari, iar eu nu prea le stiu limba pasareasca asa ca nu stiu daca intradevar cu mine discuta si nici ce a spus.

Ca sa va dati seama de marimea podului, comparati-l cu macaralele care se odihneau sub el:



Astazi (sambata), pe la ora 14:30 cand am trecut pe acolo si am facut pozele se lucra. Nu la capacitate maxima, dar se misca ceva. Aseara in schimb, pe la ora 19:15 nu am vazut pe nimeni sa lucreze, ci doar santierul iluminat (nu am facut poze).

Daca va uitati atenti, in primele 3 poze e un avion deasupra santierului. A dat 2 ocoluri prin zona asa ca poate o sa avem o surpriza si cineva a facut cateva poze aeriene cu centura.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #2568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Most companies are western European, some are Romanian. Most of them are well known actually. Are you interested in a particular company?
Well, I actually found it difficult to tell apart Romanian companies from most of Spanish and Italian ones.
I also thought 'Dnipro rep' was a Ukranian company, but it turned out to be a Romanian.
I suppose ionutzyankoo and you have taken the information form a newspaper. Our journalist write every time where from a company is, so I thought it wouldn't be a big problem for you to add next time the information. Since no one supported my request, don't bother, please.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 08:50 PM   #2569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
Well, I actually found it difficult to tell apart Romanian companies from most of Spanish and Italian ones.
I also thought 'Dnipro rep' was a Ukranian company, but it turned out to be a Romanian.
I suppose ionutzyankoo and you have taken the information form a newspaper. Our journalist write every time where from a company is, so I thought it wouldn't be a big problem for you to add next time the information. Since no one supported my request, don't bother, please.
Well, maybe no one supported your request because you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
Could you, please, next time add where the companies are from? I think other users might be interested in this also.



Seriously now, you are very right, so let's try to do it (and apologize for not doing it sooner):


Orăştie-Sibiu - 82 km

Lot 1
Tehnologica Radion (Romania)-Gabriel Couto (Portugal)-Amandio Carvalho (Portugal)-Lena (Portugal)-Rosas (Portugal)-Arcadis (Romania, subsidiary of Arcadis US - design & consulting)
SBI International Holdings (Israel)
Strabag Romania (subsidiary of Strabag Austria)

Lot 2
Straco (Romania, partner of Strabag)-Studio Corona (Italy-design & consulting)
UMB (Romania)-Tehnostrade (Romania)-Carena (Italy)
Razel (France)-Egis (France, design & consulting)
Porr (Austria)-Hidroconstrucţia (Romania)
Doprastav (Slovakia)-Cominco (Romania)-Alfa 04 (Slovakia)
Shapir (Israel)-Aktor (Greece)
Max Boegl (Germany)-Geiger (Germany)-Tancrad (Romania)-Primacons (Romania)
MonteAdriano (Portugal)-Romstrade (Romania)

Lot 3
Impresa Pizzarotti (Italy)-Concefa (Romania)
FCC (Spain)-Alpine (Austria)
Ideconsa (Spain)-Peyber Hispanica (Spain)-OHL (Spain)
Azvirt (Turkey)-Delta ACM (Romania)
Impregilo (Italy)
FIP Industriale (Italy)-Balzola (Spain)

Lot 4
Tirrena Scavi (Italy)-Condotte (Italy)-Cossi (Italy)
Secol (Italy)-STE (Italy)-Toto (Romania)
J&P Avax (Greece)
Copisa (Spain)-Aprivia (Poland)
Astaldi (Italy)-Euroconstruct (Romania)-AstalRom (Romania, subsidiary of Astaldi)
Eureca (I really don't know and Google isn't helping)


Lugoj-Deva - 99 km

Impresa Pizzarotti (Italy)-Pomponio (Romania, Italian shareholders)
Tirrena Scavi (Italy)-Condotte (Italy)-Cossi (Italy)
FCC Construction (Spain)
OHL (Spain)-Copisa (Spain)-Rubau (Spain)
Impregilo (Italy)
Astaldi (Italy)-Euroconstruct (Romania)-AstalRom (Romania, owned by Astaldi Italy)
Aktor (Greece)-Shapir (Israel)
Strabag (Austria)-Straco Grup (Romania, partner of Strabag)

Timişoara-Lugoj - 36 km

Lot 1

Straco (Romania, partner of Strabag)-Azvi (Spain)-Studio Corona (Italy - consulting)
UMB (Romania)-Tehnostrade (Romania)-Carena (Italy)
Doprastav (Slovakia)-CCCF Timişoara (Romania)
Vega (Romania)-Selina (Romania)-Consitrans (Romania)
Balzola (Spain)-Rover Alcisa sa (Spain)-Puentes (Spain)
Magenta (Spain)-Assignia (Spain)-Simarc (Romania)-Specialist Consulting srl (Romania - design & consulting)
Eureca (again, I do not know)
Confort (Romania)-MonteAdriano (Portugal)-Viaponte Projectos e Consultoria de Engenharia (Portugal)

Lot 2

Impresa Pizzarotti (Italy)-Impregilo (Italy)-Pomponio (Romania, Italian shareholders)
Tirrena Scavi (Italy)-Condotte (Italy)-Cossi (Italy)
FCC Construction (Spain)
Copisa (Spain)-OHL (Spain)- Soares da Costa (Portugal)
Lena (Portugal)-Gabriel Couto (Portugal)-Amandio Carvalho (Portugal)-Tehnologica Radion (Romania)-Rosas (Portugal)-Arcadis (Romania, subsidiary of Arcadis US - design & consulting)
Max Boegl (Germany)-Astaldi (Italy)-Euroconstruct (Romania)-Tancrad (Romania)-Primacons (Romania)
Viarom (Romania, subsidiary of Vinci France)-Vectra (Romania)-Tractebel (Romania, subsidiary of Tractebel Spain - design & consulting)
Strabag (Austria)
SCCF Iaşi (Romania, owned by Colas France)-Colas (Romania, subsidiary of Colas France)-Egis (Romania, subsidiary of Egis France - design & consulting)

Nădlac-Arad - 39 km

Lot 1

Azvi (Spain)-Puentes (Spain)-Straco (Romania)-Grusamar (Spain)-Specialist Consulting SRL (Romania - design & consulting)-Incitec SRL (Romania)
Tirrena Scavi (Italy)-Condotte (Italy)-Cossi (Italy)
Doprastav (Slovakia)-CCCF Timişoara (Romania)
Romstrade (Romania)-MonteAdriano (Portugal)-Donrep Construct (Romania)
OHL (Spain)-Labra (Spain)-Copisa (Spain)
Astaldi (Italy)-Euroconstruct (Romania)-AstalRom (owned by Astaldi Italy)
Strabag Romania (subsidiary of Strabag Austria)-Confort (Romania)

Lot 2

Impresa Pizzarotti (Italy)-Impregilo (Italy)-Pomponio (Romania, Italian shareholders)
Alpine (Austria)
UMB (Romania)-Tehnostrade (Romania)-Carena (Italy)
Porr (Austria)-Hidroconstrucţia (Romania)
Vega (Romania)-Selina (Romania)-Consitrans (Romania)
Aprivia (Poland)-Soares da Costa (Portugal)
Delta ACM (Romania)-Azvirt (Turkey)
Viarom (Romania, subsidiary of Vinci France)-Vectra (Romania)-Betacops (Romania)


So: except for the Romanian companies, we have all our Latin brothers in Europe, some German, Israeli and Greek companies, a Polish and a surprising Slovak one. I must add that almost all foreign companies involved already have subsidiaries in Romania.

Last edited by nenea_hartia; March 7th, 2011 at 10:51 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:31 PM   #2570
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Dutch road builders don't seem to be very active in other countries. Only consultancies are, like DHV or Tebodin.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #2571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Dutch road builders don't seem to be very active in other countries. Only consultancies are, like DHV or Tebodin.
And that's bad for us since you have such perfect motorways. I would also have loved to see more German companies here or - why not? - "the kings" Skanska and Hochtief. I would have expected to see even some Chinese builders, but it seems they don't intend to make business in Romania very soon.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #2572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Well, yes, but there are many right companies, but also much more problems, and even famous companies may fail (see the Vinci/Aktor pull-out from the Comarnic-Brasov PPP because they failed to find the necessary financing - this has set off this project 3 years behind ).
aaaah, these public bids... but there is no any other way.

so far nobody invented a "gloden mean" in public bids. we can prepare conditions in that way to minimalize the risk of failure, but we never exclude it for sure. the failure is not a sticky word reserved for Eastern Europe. these things happen in any other country around the world. the thing is to do "lesson learnt" carefully.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #2573
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Thank you paper_man for this usefull post
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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #2574
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That was quite some work. Thanks nenea_hartia.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #2575
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Quote:
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aaaah, these public bids... but there is no any other way.

so far nobody invented a "gloden mean" in public bids. we can prepare conditions in that way to minimalize the risk of failure, but we never exclude it for sure. the failure is not a sticky word reserved for Eastern Europe. these things happen in any other country around the world. the thing is to do "lesson learnt" carefully.
I agree. I am just annoyed that on top of the lack of experience of the Romanian authorities in running infrastructure projects, there is also the greedy and cynical attitude of the big western infrastructure corporations who attempt at anything to exploit that inexperience to their own profit. The result is more delays and problems.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #2576
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Le Clerk,

I would rather blame both side instead of only "western corporations". if the bid specification is not clear and full of gaps. first thing which comes to my mind is that it sould not be published, second thing is you should not apply for it.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #2577
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I understand, but I am not absolving the Romanian authorities from their share of the blame when saying they are inexperienced or sometimes straight incompetent. What I am saying is that there are companies who are not always behaving in good faith.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 08:30 AM   #2578
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It appears motorways can come cheap, but not in Romania (or other place in Europe):

Quote:
Romanian Construction Company Delta ACM builds motorways with 2.3m euros per kilometre in Iraq


Romanian construction company Delta ACM 93, controlled by businessman Florea Diaconu, will build a motorway in Iraq, whose cost per kilometre is around 2.3 million euros, three or four times less than in the case of motorways in western Romania put up for tender by the National Company of Motorways and National Roads at the end of 2010.

The towns that will be linked by the Erbil-Koya motorway, a section of which will be built by Delta ACM, are located in a hilly area in north-eastern Iraq, where altitudes start from around 400-500 metres. In Romania, a motorway in a hilly area should cost nearly 5 million euros per kilometre, according to cost standards published by the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. However, the cost standards do not include additional work for bridges, passages and viaducts, so a kilometre of motorway costs more in reality.

Delta ACM, with a 91 million-euro turnover last year, will build a 20.6-kilometre section of the Erbil-Koya motorway, which is 58.3-kilometre long, with the value of the contract won by Delta ACM amounting to 66.7 million dollars (47.8 million euros).
Source
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #2579
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I doubt if that's a real motorway in Iraq with the same design specs as in Romania. Many projects that are called "motorways" in such countries are often simple 4-lane highways without grade separation. Nearly all new motorways in the UAE for example used to be simple dual carriageways with roundabouts which were later reconstructed with interchanges.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:41 AM   #2580
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correct. as far as i know there is a kind a civil war in Iraq. now if you add this to your risk management plan it will have direct impact on expenses.
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