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Old November 15th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #3781
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BTW: talking about future trends and how they cannot be compared to what was in the past, next year's allocations for motorway construction will be highest ever:

Quote:
Ministry of Transport to get EUR 3.4 billion budget next year

The state budget for 2012 will give the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure RON 14.8 billion (EUR 3.4 billion at an exchange rate of RON 4.3 for the euro), the biggest budget of the past 20 years for this Ministry. The Ministry's aggregated budget for 2009-2012 will amount to around EUR 12 billion and Romania must pay 7% interest per year on this money. (Romanian Source)
Source
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Old November 15th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #3782
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Romanian Transport Ministry says "thank you" to all the skyscrapercity.com friends that are uploading pictures
@4:27


Today was the opening ceremony for the beginning of construction 2 motorway sections between Orastie and Sibiu.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #3783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk
The standard cost per km (plain geography, no art works) is around EUR 5 mil, and the average I think it's about 6 million. The costs have gone down a lot in the past year following the introduction of standards of costs.

The motorway budgetary allocation is about EUR 1 billion / year, or about 0.025% of the budget.
That would be the biggest budget in the world! 4trn EUR!!! :-) I wish we had that kind of money :-)
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #3784
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I guess, it's 1 billion out of 40 which is the entire budget, so probably 2.5% rather. Thanks for correction!
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #3785
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€ 40 billion is the entire budget? Damn the Netherlands has over € 200 billion budget while it has like 30% less population (and thus tax payers).
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:35 PM   #3786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Romanian Transport Ministry says "thank you" to all the skyscrapercity.com friends that are uploading pictures
@4:27
Cool! She must be reading us a lot.

Quote:
Today was the opening ceremony for the beginning of construction 2 motorway sections between Orastie and Sibiu.
Yep, 43 km more U/C.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #3787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 40 billion is the entire budget? Damn the Netherlands has over € 200 billion budget while it has like 30% less population (and thus tax payers).
Yes, but the Netherlands has one of the biggest GDP/capita in the EU. There's really no comparison to Romania.

BTW: The Netherlands is also the biggest investor in Romania.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:41 PM   #3788
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Yes, but still, the difference is not six-fold, right?

About the investment, the Netherlands is playing some weird games to keep Romania out of schengen, mainly to appease a very vocal, but rather small anti-EU group (including minority government supporter Geert Wilders), but in reality RO - NL relations are big business..
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Old November 15th, 2011, 08:50 PM   #3789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, but still, the difference is not six-fold, right
Well, maybe not, but the Netherlands has a lot of revenues from companies doing business abroad, which is not the case for Romania. Which BTW is relevant for the RO-NL trade exchange.

Quote:
About the investment, the Netherlands is playing some weird games to keep Romania out of schengen, mainly to appease a very vocal, but rather small anti-EU group (including minority government supporter Geert Wilders), but in reality RO - NL relations are big business..
Yes, we know that, and we don't really mind. In the end, the NL will give up. It is currently a lonely voice in the EU. Finland has announced a couple of days ago is not opposing anymore to Romania Schengen accession.

BTW:
Quote:
Dutch investments in Romania – incompatible with blocking the Schengen accession, businessman says
NOVEMBER 13TH, 2011 AT 9:00 PM

Businessman Bernard Wientjes, the leader of the Dutch Confederation of Industries and Employers, criticised the position of his country, which blocked Romania’s accession to the Schengen Zone, where The Netherlands are the main foreign investor, according to DutchNews.nl, quoted by Mediafax. Wientjes said that his country needs a Foreign Trade minister. “I would like to immediately see appointed a minister of Foreign Trade, a top entrepreneur that will promote our interests abroad,” he explained. “We are too busy with matters at home and not enough with those abroad. The government made a big fuss over the accession of Romania and Bulgaria to Schengen, but Netherlands is the biggest foreign investor in Romania,” he emphasised.
Source


Anyway, let's get back to motorways.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 11:28 PM   #3790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I believe I posted that personal estimate 2 years ago. You asked me to revisit it now, and then you get back at me for answering that to you and being unprofessional?

Most info posted by myself and others here is based on official data, and I include here the estimates for coming year openings.

Please, don't ask me anymore about my own estimates. Thanks.
just relax.

simply I am just giving you some long-term examples that information you forward here on this forum is out of reality.

I do understand you are a big fan of the infractructure and a big supporter of your country, but sometimes I find this as big disinformation. and any disinformation is much worse than lack of information.

you see, just some posts above you mentioned that starting 2014 Romania would be completing 150-200 km a year.
now, what makes you writing like that ? do you have a secure national plan for that ? or you just listened to very high level plans described by your politicians ? how about the second stage of the EU crisis ? I do not think Germany/UK would be willing to invest a lot of money to Structural Fund budget ...


these are just examples... deliberately I asked for your annual national budget. I do not think you can get close to even 100 km a year (you know it better than me Romania is rather hilly country)

I am sorry, but the truth is that I would ask you again in two year time and I am afraid again you admit this was just your personal estimate.

so please facts, not dreams.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 11:36 PM   #3791
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Estimates =/= Facts

Please, do not ask for estimates if you want facts.
Facts happened.
Estimates are predictions of what might happen.
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Old November 15th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #3792
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correct.

estimates are based on facts. that is why I asked you for a secured national plan of motorway construction or anything like that which allows you to state: "we are gonna make 200 km a year".

now what kind of facts made you thinking you will reach 150-200 km a year starting in 2014 ?

facts, not dreams
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Old November 16th, 2011, 12:02 AM   #3793
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I already explained that there is a marked increase in motorway construction activities from less than 100 km / year to currently more than 300 km / year to more than 500 km / year in 2012, with respective increase in motorway funding from both the EU and national budgets, both reported here. There is no human possibility to predict the exact number of motorway deliveries in the coming years, but a simple calculation shows that at a rate of 500 km UC/year, there could be a fair estimate that an average of 150-200 km of motorway could be delivered every year, if this trend is maintained.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 01:23 AM   #3794
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Humans usually predict the future by extrapolating the present and near past, which is wrong.
I explain why I don't believe that the current pace of building highays will be maintained AFTER 2012:
- currently we are in pre-electoral year and many of this year and next year openings are highways delayed in the past. It is a natural political behavior to concentrate the budget for investments in the last years of mandate
- the highways to be opened until elections are the easiest possible in Romania, all of them in the plains.
What is now UC and remains to be opened after elections are totally different in difficulty:
- first tunnel on a highway
- building A1 Timisoara - Sibiu in a hilly region, thus the costs and time required will be higher
- change of government with a continuos Romanian tradition of changing plans and priorities
Arguments pro highways construction after 2012:
- the new quota of 95% EU funds
- there is still a highway section in the plains to be opened: Arad - Nadlac

Last edited by danielstan; November 16th, 2011 at 01:33 AM.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 01:37 AM   #3795
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and802: you're asking by far the most optimistic user of this thread for his opinion. What did you expect?

As for official data, the planning fallacy is alive and kicking there so it's just best to watch this space for news and that's that.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:01 AM   #3796
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Daniel, my opinion is that you are pretty wrong there. Here's why:

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielstan View Post
Humans usually predict the future by extrapolating the present and near past, which is wrong.
I explain why I don't believe that the current pace of building highays will be maintained AFTER 2012:
- currently we are in pre-electoral year and many of this year and next year openings are highways delayed in the past. It is a natural political behavior to concentrate the budget for investments in the last years of mandate (CORRECT!)
- the highways to be opened until elections are the easiest possible in Romania, all of them in the plains (HMMM, SO NO DIFFICULT MOTORWAYS MADE IN HILLY GEOGRAPHY SO FAR OR WHAT'S THE POINT?).
What is now UC and remains to be opened after elections are totally different in difficulty:
- first tunnel on a highway (CORRECT - STILL THAT'S A 2 KM TUNNEL ON A 300 KM LONG U/C MOTORWAY; YOU CANNOT EXTRAPOLATE THAT ON THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE MOTORWAY AS YOU CORRECTLY ARGUED)
- building A1 Timisoara - Sibiu in a hilly region, thus the costs and time required will be higher (OBVIOUSLY! YET PLEASE, DO MENTION THAT 95% OF THOSE COSTS ARE ENSURED BY THE EU; AND THE RELEVANCE OF THAT...?)
- change of government with a continuos Romanian tradition of changing plans and priorities (COMPLETELY FALSE!!!!! NO GOVERNMENT WOULD EVER CHANGE EU FUNDED PROJECTS! EVER!)
Arguments pro highways construction after 2012:
- the new quota of 95% EU funds
- there is still a highway section in the plains to be opened: Arad - Nadlac
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:11 AM   #3797
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Quote:
Romania’s Nadlac-Sibiu Hwy Section To Be Open For Traffic In Spring 2013 - Minister

Romania’s Transport Minister Anca Boagiu said Tuesday the highway section linking Nadlac (W) to Sibiu (C) will be open for traffic in the spring of 2013 at the latest.

On Tuesday, the minister inspected works on the Deva - Orastie sector of the Nadlac-Sibiu-Constanta highway. According to Boagiu, works on this section might be finished next year.

Financing for works on the 32.5-kilometer Deva - Orastie highway section stands at EUR177.92 million (VAT excluded), of which EUR108.91 million from the European Commission and EUR69 million from the Romanian government.
Source

The 2013 deadline I do not believe either. I think the earliest feasible deadline for the whole section is 2014.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:29 AM   #3798
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That's not entirely correct. It should be opened to traffic from Nadlac (RO/HU border crossing) to Sibiu, except:
- Timisoara - Lugoj (section 2 - about 20 km): a company that lost the tender made a contestation and there are some problems there
- Lugoj - Deva (sections 2 and 3 - about 77 km): the tender hasn't even started
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:39 AM   #3799
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I know but I think they hope to fix all these blank spots by next year.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #3800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I already explained that there is a marked increase in motorway construction activities from less than 100 km / year to currently more than 300 km / year to more than 500 km / year in 2012, with respective increase in motorway funding from both the EU and national budgets, both reported here. There is no human possibility to predict the exact number of motorway deliveries in the coming years, but a simple calculation shows that at a rate of 500 km UC/year, there could be a fair estimate that an average of 150-200 km of motorway could be delivered every year, if this trend is maintained.
let me re-ask the question the third time,


do you have any national plan which secures motorway constuction in long period ?
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