daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 14th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #4001
BND
Regisztrált felhasználó
 
BND's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 2,099
Likes (Received): 277

Sorry guys but this motorway is simply not ready, thus it shouldn't be opened just to say it was inaugurated in 2011...

Anyway it's nice to see Szeged (H) as the main control city on the signs, but I don't really understand signing Vărşand all the way
BND no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:05 AM   #4002
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

I wouldn't agree. Half-profile motorways are opened all-over the world to ease traffic, so why would a full-profile motorway not be opened even though the side fence and service areas are still not completed? I just do not see enough good reason not to open it now.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #4003
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55



it is easy,

for countries where motorway network is well developed it is a kind of a nonsense, while for countries hungry for any road system the delay is not acceptable. throughput is much more important than security (if considered at all).

enough if we compare two posts:
Le Clerk's and ChrisZwolle's.
completely two different views.
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #4004
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

It's not only my personal opinion, it's the opinion of most Romanian forumers. I am not special here. In any case, the only real reason which should postpone opening is the side fence which can be nonetheless be installed in the coming month. Not a big deal IMO.

Anyway, the Bucharest urban motorway has now a video-render (feasability study is also completed):

__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #4005
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19364

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I wouldn't agree. Half-profile motorways are opened all-over the world to ease traffic, so why would a full-profile motorway not be opened even though the side fence and service areas are still not completed? I just do not see enough good reason not to open it now.
Usually half-profile motorways are completed. For instance the Istrian Y. However, from the stories I read here the Arad Bypass is not finished, not full-profile and not half-profile. If a road is not finished, it should not be opened to traffic. It would be different if the remaining works are just planting some trees, building service areas, completing adjoining roads or other off-road works, but here it appears that the basic requirements for a safe and completed road are not met yet.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #4006
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

I think we are talking about 2 different things. If we talk about Arad by-pass, I agree with you. If we talk about the Timisoara-Arad motorway, then I do not agree.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:21 PM   #4007
nenea_hartia
Skeptic
 
nenea_hartia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 3,714
Likes (Received): 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Missing crash barierrs are key to safety! More, as you might have seen written by me on the Romanian section, there are works done not according with the construction standard just because it has to be completed by saturday. My opionion is that they could have opened Arad-Timisoara (although even that one is not 100% completed), but under no circumstances they should open Arad bypass now.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilio View Post
How many meters of barriers are missing on this bypass? It's 3 days till Saturday, I can't imagine a reason they couldn't manage to install them. I suppose this bypass isn't made of 90% bridges
The guardrails are missing on almost all bypass, including bridges!!
nenea_hartia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:23 PM   #4008
nenea_hartia
Skeptic
 
nenea_hartia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 3,714
Likes (Received): 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I think we are talking about 2 different things. If we talk about Arad by-pass, I agree with you. If we talk about the Timisoara-Arad motorway, then I do not agree.
Now it's clear and I agree with you. I drove on it and almost all guardrails are already installed. Also, they have traffic signs, which are missing at Arad bypass.
nenea_hartia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:26 PM   #4009
Chilio
Небостъргачевград
 
Chilio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sofia
Posts: 12,787
Likes (Received): 9137

But at speed-limit of 60 km/h they should be regarded as key element for safety only on bridges and very elevated places. On the older 1+1 road and city streets there aren't crash-barriers neither, am I right? So opening the bypass half-profile is still safer than the old road, I suppose...
Chilio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #4010
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

I thought I was clear before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I have not followed all discussions on the Romanian forum, but I was only arguing in favour of Arad-Timisoara opening, and not for Arad by-pass.
BTW: lot 3 (14 km) of Bucharest-Ploiesti motorway is fully completed as of today (deadline) but cannot be opened because lots 1 and 2 are not yet completed.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 08:55 AM   #4011
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

So that's it for 2011. Here's the wrap up summary for motorway completions this year:

A1: Timisoara-Arad - 35 km - OPENED (tomorrow)
A2: Murfatlar-Constanta - 15 km - OPENED (in the summer)
A3: 14 km COMPLETED (not opened yet)
A4: Valul lui Traian-Agigea: 11 km - OPENED (in the summer)

Total completed 2011: 75 km
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #4012
eurocopter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,673
Likes (Received): 2043

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
So that's it for 2011. Here's the wrap up summary for motorway completions this year:

A1: Timisoara-Arad - 35 km - OPENED (tomorrow)
A2: Murfatlar-Constanta - 15 km - OPENED (in the summer)
A3: 14 km COMPLETED (not opened yet)
A4: Valul lui Traian-Agigea: 11 km - OPENED (in the summer)

Total completed 2011: 75 km
Corrections:

A1: Timisoara - Arad - 32km (not 35)
A2: Murfatlar - Constanta - 15km
A3: 0km will be opened, so it's pointless to count those 14km as completed!
A4: Valul lui Traian - Agigea: 8,5km

Total completed 2011: 55,5 km

If we count Arad bypass (half profile) as well as opened motorway, opening on saturday, we'd bring the total completed motorways number to 68km.

LeClerk please stop inflating figures intentionally/unintentionally, I'm sure nobody around likes your kind of misinformation, which I believe it's time to stop.
eurocopter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 10:16 AM   #4013
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55


@eurocopter, I totally agree with you


it is completely pointless to misinform others with Le Clerk's figures.
we will not have more motorways showing them only pictures.

if we are willing to find this thread professional then misinformation is worse then insulting.

Le Clerk,
if you cannot stop yourself from publishing your non-realistic figures, just create your own thread with your own motorways.


now, coming back ...
I believe 55,5 km this is not a bad score. assuming 2012-13 will bring more fruits this should give a noticable relief for the Romanian motorway system

can someone publish any data (map) concering traffic volume in Romania ?
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 02:44 PM   #4014
tanashubav
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Varna
Posts: 10,999
Likes (Received): 1977

I think we should declare a motorway as finished only after an official certificate for usage is been received. I dont know what is the legal term in english but in Bulgaria this is "Act 16".
tanashubav no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #4015
eurocopter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,673
Likes (Received): 2043

In order to also make some realistic prospects regarding 2012 motorways, I would present the following:

A1: Arad bypass - 12,5km (half profile to be already opened tommorow, but still unfinished)
A1: TM-Lugoj lot 1 - 9,5km (deadline for this section is early 2013 but works are undergoing extremely fast so there are big chances to see the section opened by late 2012)
A1: Deva-Orastie - 15,5km (although we might see the entire 32km long section completed by end-2012)
A2: Cernavoda - Murfatlar - 30km (although 19km from Cernavoda to Medgidia might be opened only on half-profile, there are considerable chances to see the entire 30km segment ready by the end of 2012 - if this happens, A2 will become the first completed Romanian motorway)
A3: Bucharest Ring Road - Ploiesti - 55km (June 2012)
A3: Bucharest - Bucharest Ring Road - 7km (although authorities promised to finish this section by late 2012, there are some doubts that this would actually happen).
A3: Suplacu de Barcau - Bors - 18km (with no actual utility so this segment might not be opened to traffic until the entire 64-km long section is completed in 2013).
A4: Valu lui Traian - Ovidiu - 11km (June 2012)
A4: Agigea - Poiana - 2,5km (June 2012)

Total completed 2012: 161km (an all-time record for motorway construction in Romania!)
eurocopter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #4016
tanashubav
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Varna
Posts: 10,999
Likes (Received): 1977

With risk of being too punctual, I think that each motorway has a certain deadline for finishing. Are those schedules equal to the official deadlines, or taken from politicians speeches?
tanashubav no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 10:26 PM   #4017
eurocopter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,673
Likes (Received): 2043

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanashubav View Post
With risk of being too punctual, I think that each motorway has a certain deadline for finishing. Are those schedules equal to the official deadlines, or taken from politicians speeches?
A3 all sections are already delayed by considerable amounts of time, so these should be realistic finishing deadlines. Arad bypass has a quite complicated situation, although the project is delayed by few months, the construction authorisation on one section was issued only in early-2011, so we could say it's governments' fault here. A1 TM-Lugoj is ahead of schedule, while Deva-Orastie might be a bit ahead of schedule as well. A2 and A4 sections are on schedule.
eurocopter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #4018
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocopter View Post
Corrections:

A1: Timisoara - Arad - 32km (not 35)
A2: Murfatlar - Constanta - 15km
A3: 0km will be opened, so it's pointless to count those 14km as completed!
A4: Valul lui Traian - Agigea: 8,5km

Total completed 2011: 55,5 km

If we count Arad bypass (half profile) as well as opened motorway, opening on saturday, we'd bring the total completed motorways number to 68km.

LeClerk please stop inflating figures intentionally/unintentionally, I'm sure nobody around likes your kind of misinformation, which I believe it's time to stop.
Please check your own figures and stop being cheaply speculative/interpretative about my own intentions. You are behaving like the journalists. I will stop here so not to embarass yourself even further. But please do correct your figures before I am going to.

And DO NOT COUNT Arad by-pass cause it's not completed. As to the 14 kms of Bucharest-Ploiiesti, those are COMPLETED and probably already taken over. So, technically/legally completed. I mentioned "completed" not "opened". I hope you can see the difference. Read again my post, and stop misreading me.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

Last edited by Le Clerk; December 17th, 2011 at 12:54 AM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 12:52 AM   #4019
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post

@eurocopter, I totally agree with you


it is completely pointless to misinform others with Le Clerk's figures.
we will not have more motorways showing them only pictures.

if we are willing to find this thread professional then misinformation is worse then insulting.

Le Clerk,
if you cannot stop yourself from publishing your non-realistic figures, just create your own thread with your own motorways.
Do I have to formally invite you to stop stalking me?? You are starting to really nag me. Stop stalking me!!! Thank you. Next time I'll report you, and not thank you anymore.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

Last edited by Le Clerk; December 17th, 2011 at 12:58 AM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 12:56 AM   #4020
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanashubav View Post
I think we should declare a motorway as finished only after an official certificate for usage is been received. I dont know what is the legal term in english but in Bulgaria this is "Act 16".
Technically, it's the same in Romania. For example, Timisoara-Arad will not be technically completed tomorrow, even though "opened" to traffic. Completion, in technical terms, will only probably happen in the first quarter of 2012.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, infrastructure, motorways, romania

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium