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Old April 6th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #4361
vily28
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Great update! We needed this summary of projects here. A map would also be useful.
I found an up to date map here
Thanks.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 01:15 AM   #4362
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Thanks for that summary Looks pretty good. Are all those motorways financed, or co-financed by the EU? Or does the Romanian government also finance some stretches?

I'm asking you guys this because i'm surprised to see alle those projects (also rail) here in Romania and in Bulagaria and Poland. It's a good thing thought, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering whether there is enought money left to finance these kind of projects in other EU countries.

Again, I'm not saying that you guys don't deserve it or something, but I dont see news and updates like this in the, well lets say Hungarien or lithuanian section of SSC.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #4363
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EU approves money to every EU country, based on the entire community priorities. There are no countries that don't get any money, and there are no countries that get most of the EU funds.

It is true that in Romania, Bulgaria and Poland there are a lot of things u/c, and in other countries there aren't, but this is also because of a good reason: RO, BG & PL didn't have a decent infrastructure before, but other countries did manage to build a decent network. We didn't have motorways (~200 km doesn't count as a network), we didn't have XXI century railways (actually the average speed on our railways is somewhere around 40 km/h)... Now we build them!
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #4364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vily28 View Post
I found an up to date map here
Thanks.
Thanks! Good stuff. I'll repost it here:



Green = operational
Yelow = U/C
Black = planned
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #4365
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It's good, except Timisoara - Lugoj section 2 which is not u/c, but under tendering right now.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #4366
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Originally Posted by Groningen NL View Post
Thanks for that summary Looks pretty good. Are all those motorways financed, or co-financed by the EU? Or does the Romanian government also finance some stretches?
Only A1, A2 and A4 U/C or planned sections are co-financed by the EU up to 85% of the cost (A3 is entirely financed from the budget for the moment but some sections could be financed by the EU in the future), BUT this not mean automaticaly that the Romanian Gov has no other costs. The EU does not cover expropriation costs or VAT costs (25%), and, as a rule, before any payments can be made from the EU budget, the RO Gov has to have already built and paid for those same sections (in full compliance with the tons of EU regulations and requirements of course). That is, any payment made by the EU comes only after the RO Gov has already made that payment. That means the RO Gov has to budget about EUR 1.5 billion for motorway construction per year. It would be good of course if more money was available and we hope for a budget increase for motorway construction in the coming years.

Quote:
I'm asking you guys this because i'm surprised to see alle those projects (also rail) here in Romania and in Bulgaria and Poland. It's a good thing thought, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering whether there is enought money left to finance these kind of projects in other EU countries.
Romania, Poland and Bulgaria have a dire need of motorways, much more than other countries such as Hungary. Even if it looks like we are getting a lot of money, from a relative perspective, to have the density in Hungary, Romania would probably need to invest about 20-30 EUR billion in motorways only (Hungary and Poland get lucky here because they are basically flat and therefore easier and cheaper to build, while Romania is 2/3 mountains and valleys which makes it more difficult and more expensive to build - for ex while the average motorway cost/km in flat geography in Romania costs ~ EUR 5 mil, the cost for 1 km of mountain section of Sibiu-Pitesti (A1) is estimated to cost about EUR 20 mil or more (more than half the motorway will be viaducts and tunnels) which takes you to EUR 2,5-3 billion total cost of that section or the entire EU financing for infrastructure for Romania for the entire budgetary cycle 2007-2013). So, from a relative point of view, considering actual costs, it's not enough money and if Romania does not allocate more money from the budget to motorways and if the EU does not increase its financing, it'll take another 20 years to build that network you see there which is BTW Romania's "core" network or basic network needs.

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Last edited by Le Clerk; April 7th, 2012 at 10:19 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 10:21 AM   #4367
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It's good, except Timisoara - Lugoj section 2 which is not u/c, but under tendering right now.
Yeap. Same for Lugoj-Deva "black" section.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #4368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groningen NL View Post
I'm asking you guys this because i'm surprised to see alle those projects (also rail) here in Romania and in Bulagaria and Poland. It's a good thing thought, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering whether there is enought money left to finance these kind of projects in other EU countries.

Again, I'm not saying that you guys don't deserve it or something, but I dont see news and updates like this in the, well lets say Hungarien or lithuanian section of SSC.
EU financing is not actually a bag with money sent to the governments, but rather a reimbursement. These governments will have to finance the entire construction cost themselves, and if the project went according to EU regulation, they can receive a reimbursement up to 85% of the construction cost.

Poland did not enter a recession like the rest of Europe, so had fewer problems with pre-financing these projects, but Hungary appears to have canceled / postponed nearly all motorway projects. I'm not sure about Romania, they had a severe recession but also managed to keep the government budget under control with significant budget cuts (some say their budget cuts are actually worse than what happened in Greece.)
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Old April 7th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #4369
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Poland did not enter a recession like the rest of Europe, so had fewer problems with pre-financing these projects, but Hungary appears to have canceled / postponed nearly all motorway projects. I'm not sure about Romania, they had a severe recession but also managed to keep the government budget under control with significant budget cuts (some say their budget cuts are actually worse than what happened in Greece.)

Definitelly worse than Greece but Greece is probably folowing the same path of Romania in terms of cuts (Romania was actualy given as an example by the EU and IMF for other crisis torn countries such as Greece or Spain). It's really annoying that we had poor governments until 2008 who did not focus on motorway construction when the country was flooded with cheap money coming from abroad, and they only really started building motorways in full deep crisis (2009-2011). If we had the trend today 4-5 years ago, with the cheap financing at the time, we would have already had 800-1,000 km of motorway.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #4370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
EU financing is not actually a bag with money sent to the governments, but rather a reimbursement. These governments will have to finance the entire construction cost themselves, and if the project went according to EU regulation, they can receive a reimbursement up to 85% of the construction cost.
That's still a very sweet deal. It would be irresponsible for the EU to pre-pay. Pre-payment would increase corruption and decrease road quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Poland did not enter a recession like the rest of Europe, so had fewer problems with pre-financing these projects, but Hungary appears to have canceled / postponed nearly all motorway projects.
Poland has one of the most efficient and least corrupt governments in the EU -- better than many of the western EU15. Hungary has probably the least efficient and most corrupt government of all the EU27.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #4371
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That's still a very sweet deal. It would be irresponsible for the EU to pre-pay. Pre-payment would increase corruption and decrease road quality...
... and other countires (which are rich now) could do it without external financing.

why Romania , Poland , Bulgaria cannot do it by themselves ? if you get money for free it makes you lazy and you do not feel a need to develop yourself - cause you think you will be getting money for free forever - see Greece example. conclustion for these nations: develop yourself, decrease corruption, see what you can do for your country instead of what rich countries can bring you.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #4372
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
EU approves money to every EU country, based on the entire community priorities. There are no countries that don't get any money, and there are no countries that get most of the EU funds.

It is true that in Romania, Bulgaria and Poland there are a lot of things u/c, and in other countries there aren't, but this is also because of a good reason: RO, BG & PL didn't have a decent infrastructure before, but other countries did manage to build a decent network. We didn't have motorways (~200 km doesn't count as a network), we didn't have XXI century railways (actually the average speed on our railways is somewhere around 40 km/h)... Now we build them!
Ok, thanx for clearing that up I noticed that country's like Croatia, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic actually have quite a decent network. In like 5 year from, you should be at that level too right?

Edit: 5 years is a bit to optimistic make it 15
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #4373
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Yeah, in 15 years I hope that we will have a decent road and rail network in our country.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #4374
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A Romanian forum user made some pics on the future A1 motorway between Orastie and Sibiu:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boer_escu View Post
Alt drum astazi Sibiu - Sebes si retur, alte poze:

Am fost curios cum arata centura Sebesului la intersectia cu DJ106K. Urmatoarele doua imagini sunt din acel loc:
Sebes bypass near DJ106K


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Apoi, mergand dinspre Sebes spre Sibiu am facut urmatoarele poze, toate din drumul national:
Pics taken from the main road between Sebes and Sibiu:

Aici este chiar la iesirea din Sebes spre Sibiu:

By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Alte locuri:


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Concluzia: progrese vizibile peste tot fata de acum 10 zile cand am fost ultima data prin zona. Se lucra si la ora 7.30 cand am plecat din Sibiu cu aceeasi intensitate cu care se lucra si la amiaza cand m-am intors.
Conclusion: there is visible progress since my last visit 10 days ago. They were working at 7:30 a.m. and when I came back during afternoon

Pozele care urmeaza vor fi de la..... ???
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #4375
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2nd set:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boer_escu View Post
... viaductul de la Aciliu!!!
Future Acilu viaduct:

Pentru inceput, sub deviza 'mobilitate in Romania, conexiuni cu Europa', vacile isi vedeau linistite de treaba, total neimpresionate de ce se intampla in fundal...
Personal note: this pic is hilarious


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Si acum, sa trecem la treburi serioase:


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Intersectia cu DJ65 (Sacel-Mag), unde va fi traversarea caii ferate Sibiu-Sebes. Ce se vede aici banuiesc ca va fi viitorul DJ care va supratraversa autostrada.
Junction with DJ65 (Sacel-Mag) where there will be an overpass over Sibiu-Sebes railway. What's in the pic might be the future DJ-road that will overpass the motorway.


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Aproximativ din acelasi loc, vederea spre viaductele gemene de la Sacel:
View towards the twin-viaducts near Sacel:


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07

Si o ultima imagine, luata din DN, cu intrarea in tunelul de la Sacel:
Last pic, from the main road, with the entrance in Sacel tunnel:


By boer_escu at 2012-04-07
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #4376
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Those motorway sections will make an awesome driving sight!
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Old April 8th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #4377
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Hi to everybody!
What is with Suplacu de Barcau - Bors section (64 km long)? Is only a 18 km long part of it U/C?
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Old April 8th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #4378
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is Bucureşti - Ploieşti the first next section to be opened in RO? i thought it was already operational (it is already signed at Google Maps)
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Old April 8th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #4379
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is Bucureşti - Ploieşti the first next section to be opened in RO? i thought it was already operational (it is already signed at Google Maps)
so is this officially be opened in May, but it seems it will take until the end of June or July
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Old April 8th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #4380
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Yeah, most probably at the same time as A2 remaining sections of Cernavoda-Medgidia and Medgidia-Murfatlar.
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