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Old December 21st, 2012, 03:22 PM   #5441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baiazid View Post
Everything will be clear as soon as we'll see the 2013 budget. So we only have to wait till January 2013 or so. Then we'll now.



I have no idea if that's even legally possible. Anyway, it might be that Sibiu - Pitesti will take the bigest part of the 2014-2020 allocated POS-T budget for Romania, so there won't be enough money left for CIX and CIV South. And also, we should not forget that the railway also needs big amounts in the near future.

Therefore, it might be that the Road Company is planing to use concessions for those routes for which the traffic qualifies and focus the EU money on the low traffic sections. And for instance, even if tolled, A3 Bucuresti - Ploiesti + Ax Ploiesti - Focsani will steal a lot of the DN2 traffic to which it will add the significant current traffic on Ploiesti - Buzau. So, Ploiesti - Focsani motorway it's an attractive concession.
It may be legally possible, if approved by the EU. This would also ensure a reduction in irregularities, due to EU scrutiny of such contracts.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 03:31 PM   #5442
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which part will be opened next of the A1???
Simeria - Orastie 18km in February 2013.

That is actually the second part of the section which partly opened today. The construction contract is Soimus (Deva) - Simeria - Orastie, out of which Soimus - Simeria opened today.

In April 2013 (maybe latest in June) Orastie - Sebes 32 km will follow.

Last edited by Baiazid; December 21st, 2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:01 PM   #5443
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why the second part of deva - orastie opened not today???
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:01 PM   #5444
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Not ready yet.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:04 PM   #5445
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when will the motorway ring of Bukarest be built?? In the next time will it give a motorway to giurgiu

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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM   #5446
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According to public statements, the contract for A0 (south) might be signed next year, though this remains to be seen whether it is realistic.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 08:44 AM   #5447
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I made a map of proposed motorway projects for the coming 4 years, according to the Governing Programme (which can be found here. p 113).

What is in red is planned for completion, what is pink is planned for tendering and start of works. Of course, this is extremelly "generous", we've seen it before. Even if half of it were done, and it's still good. Green is current motorway network, and yellow is U/C.




As you can see, C IX changed route to Iasi and further north.
C IV south has been put "on hold".
There is a strong priority on PPPs, for Comarnic-Brasov, A0, Craiova-Pitesti and Ploiesti-Iasi (Pascani).
Most of EU money will be put into Sibiu-Pitesti, but in any case as much as necessary to complete it.
Transilvania Motorway completion in the coming 4 years looks unrealistic.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 08:49 AM   #5448
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BTW - the freshly opened Simeria-Deva section of A1:

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Old December 22nd, 2012, 08:58 AM   #5449
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nice road.

-> the truck at 2:02
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 09:37 AM   #5450
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Yeah, maybe the police should fine the driver, or at least the company directors should get the driver scolded for that stupid move.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 04:41 PM   #5451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
What is in red is planned for completion, what is pink is planned for tendering and start of works. Of course, this is extremelly "generous", we've seen it before. Even if half of it were done, and it's still good.
Half would be not good, but GREAT! Like I said it on the Romanian Forum, there are some targets for 2013 - 2016 which are purely jokes. But some are reasonable, IF AND ONLY IF the Government actually does it's job and doensn't go to sleep for 1-2 years.

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As you can see, C IX changed route to Iasi and further north.
That's just what's announced in the Government Program. As far as I know, we can not simply change the route of a corridor on our own. There are some procedures to follow. Until then the idea of CIX Ploiesti - Focsani - Bacau - Pascani - Iasi is great for Romania, but for now the road corridor IX is Ploiesti - Focsani - Albita ( - Chisinau)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
C IV south has been put "on hold".
Why would you say that? It is still part of the plan! Actually there is on-going tender for the design of the South Motorway, which INCLUDES Craiova - Drobeta Turnu Severin - Lugoj ( CIV South). While the Government Plan includes the construction of the full infrastructure, both road and railway Craiova - Lugoj. So, with CIV Soth partly being tendered as we speak, you can't say "it's on hold". Quite the opposite, it is the first time when the CIV South is being seriously considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
There is a strong priority on PPPs, for Comarnic-Brasov, A0, Craiova-Pitesti and Ploiesti-Iasi (Pascani).
Again, I wouldn't call it "strong priority" but rather a "policy change". There are years since we talk about the fact that Romania is to poor to build all the missing / required infrastructure on it's own. And even the money from the EU are not enough. So PPP could be a solution. Since 2004 there was only talk about it. Now it seems PPP it's becoming a serious alternative for projects that could not be financed otherwise.

The starting projects are ambitious, but they don't exclude the EU-financed projects, such as CIV and CIX, which are still top-priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Most of EU money will be put into Sibiu-Pitesti, but in any case as much as necessary to complete it.
It is still a question of how much Sibiu - Pitesti will actually cost. By the end of the evaluation from JASPERS we should hear about at least a 20% reduction. I was just looking at the FS from IPTANA. And, for instance, the project is made considering a future tolling with gates, thus resulting in pairs of bridges for every exit: one for the motorway access and one for the local road to which the exit connects. But since the plan is to use electronic tolling, the gate access is no longer required. So one overpass per exit should be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Transilvania Motorway completion in the coming 4 years looks unrealistic.
Completing Transilvanya Motorway A3 (Brasov - Cluj - Oradea - Bors) in 4 years to me it sounds like a complete joke! There is no funding for it and the project is expensive. They could've said completing Bors - Targu Mures. And even that would have been a long shot...

Last edited by Baiazid; December 22nd, 2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 09:49 PM   #5452
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Romanian motorway network operational now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skynick View Post


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Old December 22nd, 2012, 10:02 PM   #5453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baiazid View Post
Half would be not good, but GREAT! Like I said it on the Romanian Forum, there are some targets for 2013 - 2016 which are purely jokes. But some are reasonable, IF AND ONLY IF the Government actually does it's job and doensn't go to sleep for 1-2 years.
I agree. Half would be great! I didn't mean to underline the bullshit of a programe they have (at least in great part which is unachievable). But yes, half of that would make a decent motorway programe, and indeed would be nice if accomplished.

Quote:
That's just what's announced in the Government Program. As far as I know, we can not simply change the route of a corridor on our own. There are some procedures to follow. Until then the idea of CIX Ploiesti - Focsani - Bacau - Pascani - Iasi is great for Romania, but for now the road corridor IX is Ploiesti - Focsani - Albita ( - Chisinau)
C IX needs to get to Chisinau, from Bucharest. If we extend it via Iasi, then we gain some more EU funding for +150 km of motorway through Romania. Just like A1 detour through Timisoara.
Quote:
Why would you say that? It is still part of the plan! Actually there is on-going tender for the design of the South Motorway, which INCLUDES Craiova - Drobeta Turnu Severin - Lugoj ( CIV South). While the Government Plan includes the construction of the full infrastructure, both road and railway Craiova - Lugoj. So, with CIV Soth partly being tendered as we speak, you can't say "it's on hold". Quite the opposite, it is the first time when the CIV South is being seriously considered.
Yes, but according to Governing Program I referred to, it's just planned for "starting", which means BS, as opposed to other motorways which are planned as "completed". And I think you agree with me.
Quote:
Again, I wouldn't call it "strong priority" but rather a "policy change". There are years since we talk about the fact that Romania is to poor to build all the missing / required infrastructure on it's own. And even the money from the EU are not enough. So PPP could be a solution. Since 2004 there was only talk about it. Now it seems PPP it's becoming a serious alternative for projects that could not be financed otherwise.
We'll see. PPPs are difficult in these times of finance crunch. And I certainly hope they do make it!
Quote:
The starting projects are ambitious, but they don't exclude the EU-financed projects, such as CIV and CIX, which are still top-priority.
Agreed!
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Last edited by Le Clerk; December 22nd, 2012 at 10:09 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 11:32 PM   #5454
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Why the romanian governent let so much run time to built motorways??
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:07 AM   #5455
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Why the romanian governent let so much run time to built motorways??
It's due to historical and political reasons. Between 1990 and 2000 politicians were "absolutely sure that Romania doesn't need motorways". After 2000 they decided that "we might need some motorways, but we don't have money to build them". After 2006 they suddenly came to the conclusion: "Damn, we urgently need lots of motorways! How do we build them?".

Only since 2010 it seems we know how to finance and build fast the motorways we need. Actually now Romania does build a lot of motorways and fast. But now we have to make up for the 20 years we lost between 1990 and 2010.

The current government announced plans to open for traffic / start the construction of about 1700 km !!! of motorway between 2013 and 2016, in addition to the existing 530 km. That is equally ambitious and insane. There's no way they'll be able to do that in 4 years!

That is why me and @LeClerk agree that even half of it would be great till 2016. We hope that construction speed won't slow down, so it might be that in 2016 we'll have a network of about 1000 km of motorway.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 07:55 AM   #5456
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It's due to historical and political reasons. Between 1990 and 2000 politicians were "absolutely sure that Romania doesn't need motorways". After 2000 they decided that "we might need some motorways, but we don't have money to build them". After 2006 they suddenly came to the conclusion: "Damn, we urgently need lots of motorways! How do we build them?".
Baiazid, you also have to agree there was simply no money for motorways in that period (the economy collapsed until 2000 by 30%, and Romania was on the verge of a financial meltdown in 1999*). I am curios if we did a road budget comparison between 2011 and 1998 for example, what would be the results. Probably the 2011 is about or at least 10 x the 1998 budget.

For all I know, a decision was made to upgrade the national road system with the existing money until 2000, and I think it was a good decision in hindsight. Now if the EU had given us money until 2000 like we get now, I am sure the situation would've been a lot different at that time.

*Many people actually don't see the huge progress Romania did (albeit slow) in the past decade (and I don't mean you, but people in general in Romania).
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 11:20 AM   #5457
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Baiazid, you also have to agree there was simply no money for motorways in that period (the economy collapsed until 2000 by 30%, and Romania was on the verge of a financial meltdown in 1999*). I am curios if we did a road budget comparison between 2011 and 1998 for example, what would be the results. Probably the 2011 is about or at least 10 x the 1998 budget.
@LeClerk, there's a huge difference between "no money available" and "no money budgeted". Because it is absolutely true that during the 1990 the budget for transport in general was insignificant and insufficient to even maintain the existing infrastructure. Let alone building a new one.

But is absolutely NOT TRUE that during the nineties there were no money! In 1990 Romania had ZERO national debts and 3 billion USD in claims. By the end of the nineties Romania had already 10 billion USD national debt and only 1.5 billion claims. And this is not considering the non-refundable funds received from EU for upgrading the transport infrastructure.

So, we had a lot money! Lot of money! But we chose to spend them recklessly, without any consideration to our own future. The problems we're bumping into today are the result of that lack of vision in the nineties!

It wouldn't have been necessary to build 100 km stretches of motorway in 2 years. Just a steady pace of 20-30 km every 2 years would have been great. We could have afford that without thinking. Bear in mind that the construction prices and land value in the nineties were way-way lower then today.

But, that's history now. Would be great if we won't make the same mistake again in the future.

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*Many people actually don't see the huge progress Romania did (albeit slow) in the past decade (and I don't mean you, but people in general in Romania).
I think many people don't see the huge progress made their own life, let alone the country as a whole. But it is true: Romania made a huge progress in the past 10 years at an astonishing pace. Of course, a lot of things could have and should have been better. But we tend to easily forget were and how we were in 2000.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 01:48 AM   #5458
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I just wanted to thank you fo the interesting maps you´ve posted in this thread Also big thanks to Balazid for the curious facts he stated in his last posts I wish you good luck in upgrading your national motorway network!
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Old December 26th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #5459
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How much kilometers of the A1 will be opened in middle of 2014??
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Old December 27th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #5460
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There is a strong priority on PPPs, for Comarnic-Brasov
Comarnic-Brasov was tendered in PPP, but what about the Comarnic-Ploiesti section? I might have missed something but it looks to me Romania is building a motorway section that starts and ends at "nowwhere" again...
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