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Old April 27th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #5781
MichiH
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The Daimler plant in Sebes will create 600 jobs ...
And it will not generate the traffic of a car plant either.
Of course, you're right. But assembling about 1 million transmissions per year is not so bad...
(and suppliers in Germany also have activities for that plant)

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Talking about Sebes, it will be a junction point between A1 and A3: Sebes-Turda motorway was approved for EU financing at 85%, and should be completed by 2016. Estimated cost: EUR 800 million for 78 km of motorway.
Is it really planned to build a 2x2 motorway there? I havn't know anything about it yet.
Is the priority (demand) higher than for the A1? What's about the AADT on the DN1?

The article refers that it will be completed until late 2015 due to EU funding and the costs are 800-900 million €. Will it be divided into several sections? When will the construction start, when will it be tendered?
I cannot believe that anyone can build a 78km long motorway in such a short period of only 2 years (if groundbreaking would be in late 2013)!

What's about the intersection at Sebes. I guess it is not part of the current A1 construction? Where will it be located?

On closing a rhetorical question: Any information about the future numbering of that motorway?
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Old April 27th, 2013, 11:36 PM   #5782
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Is it really planned to build a 2x2 motorway there? I havn't know anything about it yet.
Yes, it will be a motorway.

Quote:
Is the priority (demand) higher than for the A1? What's about the AADT on the DN1?
AFAIK, AADT for DN1 is about 50-60 k depending on the day. Or it was so until the opening of A3. Must be down to 30 k now.

Quote:
The article refers that it will be completed until late 2015 due to EU funding and the costs are 800-900 million €. Will it be divided into several sections? When will the construction start, when will it be tendered? I cannot believe that anyone can build a 78km long motorway in such a short period of only 2 years (if groundbreaking would be in late 2013)!
Of course it will be divided into several sections. They just cut an agreement with the EU for funding. If they tender it in late 2013, they still have 2 years for completion (2014-2015), which is the standard term for motorway construction in Romania, at least in recent 3-4 years.

Quote:
What's about the intersection at Sebes. I guess it is not part of the current A1 construction? Where will it be located?
There's really no feasibility for that yet.

Quote:
On closing a rhetorical question: Any information about the future numbering of that motorway?
That's too much really.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 11:54 PM   #5783
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they still have 2 years for completion (2014-2015), which is the standard term for motorway construction in Romania, at least in recent 3-4 years.
Ok. In Germany it is at least 20 years for 78km...

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There's really no feasibility for that yet.
No feasibility where the intersection will be located? The plans must be completed until the construction can be tendered! So you have only no information yet!?

Last edited by MichiH; April 27th, 2013 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Correction due to edit by Le Clerk
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #5784
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Ok. In Germany it is at least 20 years for 78km...
It used to be so here too until about 4 years ago.

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No feasibility where the intersection will be located? The plans must be completed until the construction can be tendered! So you have only no information yet!?
They just had the project approved for EU financing. They will have to run tender for feasibility first, indeed, or tender the feasibility together with the construction.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #5785
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After the planned 119 km opening this year, Romania should start works next year to over 350 km of new motorway in 2014 (a huge motorway site), according to plans. The fact is that if they don't start tendering this year for new sections, there will be not much thing to do next year and the years to come. And a lot of EU money will be wasted. The sections in yellow should become U/C next year, and should be completed by 2015-2016:





BTW: The minister in charge of motorways is also the minister in charge of large investments projects, such as Daimler. In fact, the current minister of motorways managed to convince Daimler to come to Romania.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:46 AM   #5786
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^dude, from Comarnic to Brasov
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:52 AM   #5787
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The last time they talked about concession for that route, it was for Comarnic-Fagaras section.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #5788
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When? in 2010?

Just Comarnic-Brasov 58km
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Old April 28th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #5789
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No, in Sept 2011 the Gov prepared the tender book for Comarnic-Fagaras, but they never made it to tender because of political instability and the fall of Gov in April 2012.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #5790
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They will have to run tender for feasibility first, indeed, or tender the feasibility together with the construction.
I have no idea about the planning process in Romania, but in Germany it takes many years!

First a feasibility study is often done due to asertain a rough line and rough costs. If the cost-benefit ratio is > 1, the project must be request at the Federal government.
If the Federal government allows planning activity, the Federal state where the project is located must start its planning process with a regional planning procedure (> 1 - 2 year). Afterwards the route defining procedure starts (> 1 - 2 years), which must also be confirmed by the Federal government. Then the pre planning procedure can start (> 2 - 3 years). Finally that plan must also be confirmed by the Federal government (> 1/2 - 2 years). If the project is a small one (e.g. only a simple bypass of a village), the route defining procedure can be skipped.

The documents for the plan approval procedure must be arranged (> 1/2 - 1 year) before the plan approval procedure can be started (> 1 - 3 years, if there are no big problems). The documents must be outlaid and discussed with the citizens and the nature conservation organisations. If there is no object, the plan approval order can be passed. The order documents are outlaid again for four weeks, afterwards you can challenge within a period of 6 weeks. The complaint is discussed by the court after about 1 - 3 years. Sometimes the complainers challenge the order at a higher court again. If everything is established as final and absolute, we start waiting for the money. Depending on the location we are requesting EU funds at this stage or at least when the plan approval procedure is already in progress!

The plannig procedure takes at minimum 5 years (theoretically), normally at least 10 years, if there are no big problems. If there are problems, the planning procedure is for decades!

What's the difference to a Romanian planning procedure?
Has the feasibility study for the motorway Sebes - Turda really not started yet?

Last edited by MichiH; April 28th, 2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #5791
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That is very bureaucratic. The average planning/procedure time in the Netherlands is now down to 4 years, and you can only appeal at court once at the final decision. In addition, the court has to issue a judgment within six months by law and then no higher appeal is possible.

Additionally, funding is also secured before they start the procedural process, which means construction can commence immediately once the court issues their judgment and can be finished in the fastest way possible.

Last year they widened 25 kilometers of a Reichsautobahn-style motorway in the Netherlands (A12) in just 1.5 year, entirely rebuilding the motorway and replacing every single overpass / bridge.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #5792
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BTW: The minister in charge of motorways is also the minister in charge of large investments projects, such as Daimler. In fact, the current minister of motorways managed to convince Daimler to come to Romania.
Daimler purchases products from Romania since 1996. The new company was founded in 2001. STCU assembles complete transmissions since 2010, in 2012/13 assamle lines for some older transmissions were shipped from Germany to Sebes. A complete new lines for the new Mercedes A and B class is currently build at the German suppliers. This week the decision was published for further lines assembling further transmission types.

Is the current minister in office since more than ten years? That would be a very stable government!
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:29 PM   #5793
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That is very bureaucratic.
That's Germany .

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The average planning/procedure time in the Netherlands is now down to 4 years
Ok, but the Romanian motorway should be completed in 3 years, so the planning procedure time in Romania must be much shorter than in the Netherlands.
I think there is also a big difference planning a complete new motorway or only planning a widening of an existing motorway.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #5794
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The feasibility study for a motorway doesn't last for more than 6 months here. Once the feasibility is over, the Gov can contract the planning+works. It is true the time is short, but if they do the feasibility this year, they still have time to execute the planning+works in 2014-2015. If they got the EU funding approval, they need to organise this smoothly so that the whole project should be done by the end of financing cycle 2015-2016. Otherwise, the whole effort to get approval for EU financing was in vain.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; April 28th, 2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #5795
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The feasibility study for a motorway doesn't last for more than 6 months here.
Is the route also be defined within the feasibility study? Are there no objects by the citizens or other people?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #5796
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Daimler purchases products from Romania since 1996. The new company was founded in 2001. STCU assembles complete transmissions since 2010, in 2012/13 assamle lines for some older transmissions were shipped from Germany to Sebes. A complete new lines for the new Mercedes A and B class is currently build at the German suppliers. This week the decision was published for further lines assembling further transmission types.

Is the current minister in office since more than ten years? That would be a very stable government!
How do you know so much about the Daimler site in Sebes?

It's true there's is a Daimler-RO GOV JV in Sebes for a production line functioning since 2001.

Now they will be opening a new plant with the new asembly lines from Germany. From what I read, the transmission lines produced in Sebes from 2016 on will be for the new luxury lines of Mercedes cars, I don't know what types exactly.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; April 28th, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:50 PM   #5797
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Is the route also be defined within the feasibility study? Are there no objects by the citizens or other people?
Guys, I am now reading the FS for this road was approved by the Gov earlier this year in January. They are now doing the planning and expropriation works, and plan to tender the works in August this year. Here's the route:

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Old April 28th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #5798
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BTW: The Sebes-Turda motorway is part of a motorway that is funded by the EU and will connect Iasi to A1 and A3, the so-called east-west motorway, which will bring the traffic from Russia and Ukraine through A1 and A3.


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Old April 28th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #5799
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They are now doing the planning
Whow, planning time from January to August (max. 8 month!)

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and expropriation works
Ok. This is the cause for the short planning time .
Are there no complaints or is this there no chance to object?
Does the land already belong to the state?

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Here's the route
The interchange at Sebes is very ambiguous. I guess the new motorway will pass east of Lancram and it will be a full interchange, no triangle. The motorway is extended to the Strada Calarasi (106K). This is also a part of an Eastern Sebes bypass.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #5800
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Ok. This is the cause for the short planning time .
Are there no complaints or is this there no chance to object?
Does the land already belong to the state?
We used to have VERY BIG problems with legal action from owners of the land which was marked for expropriations for purpose of infrastructure works. Owners would go to courts to sue against the expropriation decisions, and thus the whole process would get stopped in litigation for years.

4 years ago, the law was changed to the effect that the state could expropriate, and go ahead with the project, while the owner could only sue against the price received for the expropriated land, but this cannot stop the land from being expropriated. This way, the infrastructure projects got rid of a major obstacle.
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