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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #6241
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in the meantime to take a break from "big" and rhetorical, arad N bypass road level railway crossings just going to rot like that dormant longer and longer? it is maddening.

anyhow....
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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #6242
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According to this map the section of DN 5 between Ardjesh bridge and Bucurest centura is in perfect condition. Last time I've travelled it it was under repairment and far from excellence. So do you know if the reconstructiona has finaly finish, or the map is lying?
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Old August 13th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #6243
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Yes, but we really need to move on from A1, and look to breakthroughs on A3 (Comarnic-Brasov), A0 south, Craiova-Pitesti, Transilvania Motorway, A5. These are the real breakthroughs that the Gov has to take care of this year and the coming ones. Oh yeah, and contracting the Sibiu-Pitesti sections, which could be started this year or early next one. The EU funding is ready starting 2014.
Till "ilussion" projects (in terms of EU funding) such as Craiova-Pitesti, after the completion of C IV, C IX needs to be financed. It is in the same situation of funding (85 % from cohesion funds) as C IV.

Moldova needs (also) a highway!
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Old August 13th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #6244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanashubav
According to this map the section of DN 5 between Ardjesh bridge and Bucurest centura is in perfect condition. Last time I've travelled it it was under repairment and far from excellence. So do you know if the reconstructiona has finaly finish, or the map is lying?
Dafuq is Ardjesh? If you mean the section between Bucharest ringroad and Arges river, the company in charge of rebuilding it, Romstrade has had major legal issues, and as such every contract with them was terminated, including this one. The project hasn't been retendered since, so it's probably inthe same sorry state when you've last seen it.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #6245
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Originally Posted by cove_adrian View Post
Till "ilussion" projects (in terms of EU funding) such as Craiova-Pitesti, after the completion of C IV, C IX needs to be financed. It is in the same situation of funding (85 % from cohesion funds) as C IV.

Moldova needs (also) a highway!
Craiova-Pitesti is not under EU financing. Where did you come up with this from?!

The fact they have tendered Bacau by-pass means exactly this: the next direction for EU funds 2014-2020 will be east, except for Sibiu-Pitesti. We'll basically get EUR 4 billion from EU for motorways, give or take, and EUR 2 billion will go into Pitesti-Sibiu, while the difference is enough for Dumbrava (Ploiesti)-Albita/MD border.

If we want to build more motorways in this period, we'll have to attract private investors, which is happening now with Craiova-Pitesti, A0 south, or Comarnic-Brasov. And I hope this is not the end of tenders with private money for the coming years.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #6246
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Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
Dafuq is Ardjesh?
Tu cum zici: Pleven sau Plevna?
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Old August 14th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #6247
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Are there any plans for a connection between Otopeni and A3 or should we wait for construction of A0 north?
And for Dumbrava-Albița motorway? Although by the way, they have done a great job with the conventional roads between DN2 and Albița between 2012-2013.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #6248
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AFAIK, there is a connection planned between A3 and the new terminal of Bucharest Otopeni Airport, but I do not know whether this connection will extend all the way to where the airport is now.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #6249
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Craiova-Pitesti is not under EU financing. Where did you come up with this from?!

The fact they have tendered Bacau by-pass means exactly this: the next direction for EU funds 2014-2020 will be east, except for Sibiu-Pitesti. We'll basically get EUR 4 billion from EU for motorways, give or take, and EUR 2 billion will go into Pitesti-Sibiu, while the difference is enough for Dumbrava (Ploiesti)-Albita/MD border.

If we want to build more motorways in this period, we'll have to attract private investors, which is happening now with Craiova-Pitesti, A0 south, or Comarnic-Brasov. And I hope this is not the end of tenders with private money for the coming years.
Sorry for the misleading/mistake. My bad. You are right! BTW, Bacau by-pass will be financed from FEDR scheme.
I'm afraid that the rest of the POS-T 2014-2020 money will be spend on the southern branch of C IV (Lugoj-Craiova-Calafat) or even Sebes-Turda.
Some crumbs of money will go to update the Fezability plans for C IX, because it's about the forgotten land of Moldova : no-highway land!

I want to know if the current route of C IX stays on the same direction via Barlad-Crasna-Husi-Albita? They were some bad rumors (national or local party leaders) of changing the route. I think the route should stay on its establishment confirmed at Crete and Helsinki Conference in 1994 and 1997. This is the direct/right/short route for linking Salonic with Kiev/Helsinki via Bucuresti-Focsani. For Bacau-Focsani or Bacau-Siret could function the PPP scheme or finance (scheduled in years) from national budget of regional budget (if regions are implemented).

Time will tell!

For C IX, after the upgrade of DN 24 (between Vaslui/Galati border - Barlad-Crasna) and DN 24 B (Crasna - Husi - Albita), the traffic increased considerable. In the future, in 4 -5 years, the traffic will double (my personal opinion) and the highway will be a MUST.
Recently, between Barlad-Crasna, a traffic measurement point was installed.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #6250
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Originally Posted by cove_adrian View Post
Sorry for the misleading/mistake. My bad. You are right! BTW, Bacau by-pass will be financed from FEDR scheme.
I'm afraid that the rest of the POS-T 2014-2020 money will be spend on the southern branch of C IV (Lugoj-Craiova-Calafat) or even Sebes-Turda.
Some crumbs of money will go to update the Fezability plans for C IX, because it's about the forgotten land of Moldova : no-highway land!
IMO, if they do Craiova-Pitesti, for which it is about to be announced the winner of the tender this fall, and considering the completion of Sibiu-Pitesti in the same period, CIV south will be closed through Craiova/Sibiu and not through Lugoj.

In my opinion, this way the south corridor becomes less important and the interest will switch to CIX which is indeed starting to clog the roads in SE Romania with Russian/Ukrainian/Turkish trucks.


PS: the Transportation Minister also says that the motorway will be built during 2014-2020 with EU funds.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #6251
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I want to know if the current route of C IX stays on the same direction via Barlad-Crasna-Husi-Albita? They were some bad rumors (national or local party leaders) of changing the route. I think the route should stay on its establishment confirmed at Crete and Helsinki Conference in 1994 and 1997. This is the direct/right/short route for linking Salonic with Kiev/Helsinki via Bucuresti-Focsani.
I hope the EU will make funds available only for the agreed short route. If Romanian politicians want to build a circuitous route, they should not rely on outside funds.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #6252
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The fesability study for Ploiesti-Albita was made for the following route: Ploiesti − Buzau − Focsani − Bacau – Vaslui − Albita. I also don't see a point changing it now.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #6253
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The fesability study for Ploiesti-Albita was made for the following route: Ploiesti − Buzau − Focsani − Bacau – Vaslui − Albita. I also don't see a point changing it now.
Hm..there are some errors:

1. in Sova's speech. C IX isn't Ploiesti-Iasi. C IX is Dumbrava (near Ploiesti) -Buzau-Focsani-Albita for road component. C IX is for Ploiesti-Iasi for the railway component.

2. the fesability study was implemented wrong. Focsani-Bacau-Vaslui-Albita? What? Bacau-Vaslui - DN 2F passing over Barladului TableLand, which is the "land of the gullies"? It means a detour of more than 75 km (calculated grosso-modo) with viaducts (which should cross over torrents and valleys) in spite of the classical/faster/less expensive version over Barlad River Valley.

I think the UE/EC will finance the fastest/less expensive linkage between Bucuresti and Chisinau. And all the bus, lorry and small car drivers knows that if you want to reach Chisinau-Moldova or Kiev-Ukraine from Bucharest or center of the country you should head to Albita. via Crasna-Husi.

Some opinion are expressed here : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post100254430
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Old August 15th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #6254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cove_adrian View Post
Sorry for the misleading/mistake. My bad. You are right! BTW, Bacau by-pass will be financed from FEDR scheme.
I'm afraid that the rest of the POS-T 2014-2020 money will be spend on the southern branch of C IV (Lugoj-Craiova-Calafat) or even Sebes-Turda.
Some crumbs of money will go to update the Fezability plans for C IX, because it's about the forgotten land of Moldova : no-highway land!

I want to know if the current route of C IX stays on the same direction via Barlad-Crasna-Husi-Albita? They were some bad rumors (national or local party leaders) of changing the route. I think the route should stay on its establishment confirmed at Crete and Helsinki Conference in 1994 and 1997. This is the direct/right/short route for linking Salonic with Kiev/Helsinki via Bucuresti-Focsani. For Bacau-Focsani or Bacau-Siret could function the PPP scheme or finance (scheduled in years) from national budget of regional budget (if regions are implemented).

Time will tell!

For C IX, after the upgrade of DN 24 (between Vaslui/Galati border - Barlad-Crasna) and DN 24 B (Crasna - Husi - Albita), the traffic increased considerable. In the future, in 4 -5 years, the traffic will double (my personal opinion) and the highway will be a MUST.
Recently, between Barlad-Crasna, a traffic measurement point was installed.
I don't think that either Focsani- Barlad- Crasna- Husi- Albita or Focsani- Bacau- Husi- Albita would be the best picks.
Much better sounds Focsani- Bacau- Roman- Tg. Frumos and then the common section with Tg. Mures- Iasi- Sculeni.
Thus the motorway to Chisinau will attract both the traffic from south (Bucharest, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey) but also the traffic from west (Transylvania, W Europe). Not to mention Iasi and all north east of Romania. The variant through Barlad, Husi, Albita would be useful only from south.

Ok, Focsani- Barlad- Crasna- Husi- Albita is the shortest way. Also would help some poor regions (Tecuci, Barlad, Vaslui, Husi etc), however how can you miss Iasi? How can you miss Bacau (in the first version through Barlad)? Those are the major cities of Moldavia (Romanian part of Moldovia, the other one being temorarly under UKR, RM suveranities).
When building a motorway is not only to link point A (Bucharest) with point B (Chisinau) but also to connect other major cities on the route to generate enough traffic to justify the investment. Ok, it will be a detour, it will be more expensive but if we can convince the EU Commission to aprove the route through Bacau- Iasi would be a great catch for Romania.

Otherwise Iasi will remain out of the motorways network for a long time and frankly Iasi - Chisinau is a must from many reasons.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #6255
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IMO, if they do Craiova-Pitesti, for which it is about to be announced the winner of the tender this fall, and considering the completion of Sibiu-Pitesti in the same period, CIV south will be closed through Craiova/Sibiu and not through Lugoj.

In my opinion, this way the south corridor becomes less important and the interest will switch to CIX which is indeed starting to clog the roads in SE Romania with Russian/Ukrainian/Turkish trucks.
They just opened the bridge Calafat- Vidin and also on the bulgarians side they are preparing to build an expressway Botevgrad- Vidin, thus connecting the bridge with Hemus motorway and then Sofia, seaside, Greece, Turkey etc. From what you suggest the trucks and the traffic from Calafat bridge has to go to Craiova? I'm afraid they want to travel west and indeed Lugoj- Calafat will be a priority within 2014-2020 cycle. Otherwise why EU has financed the bridge?
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Old August 15th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #6256
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I don't think that either Focsani- Barlad- Crasna- Husi- Albita or Focsani- Bacau- Husi- Albita would be the best picks.
Much better sounds Focsani- Bacau- Roman- Tg. Frumos and then the common section with Tg. Mures- Iasi- Sculeni.
Thus the motorway to Chisinau will attract both the traffic from south (Bucharest, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey) but also the traffic from west (Transylvania, W Europe).

Ok, Focsani- Barlad- Crasna- Husi- Albita is the shortest way. Also would help some poor regions (Tecuci, Barlad, Vaslui, Husi etc), however how can you miss Iasi? How can you miss Bacau (in the first version through Barlad)? Those are the major cities of Moldavia (Romanian part of Moldovia, the other one being temorarly under UKR, RM suveranities).
When building a motorway is not only to link point A (Bucharest) with point B (Chisinau) but also to connect other major cities on the route to generate enough traffic to justify the investment. Ok, it will be a detour, it will be more expensive but if we can convince the EU Commission to aprove the route through Iasi or at least through Bacau would be a great catch for Romania.

Otherwise Iasi will remain out of the motorways network for a long time and francky Iasi - Chisinau is a must from many reasons.
Iasi is part of another project Iasi-Tg. Mures/Turda highway. The current project is a mixture of UE funds with PPP scheme. Till or from Iasi/Ungheni there is no corridor. And in Republic of Moldova from Ungheni, via Calarasi, is only a republican road and the EU won't finance a common route from POS-T.
C IX, if you look on the official map (available here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_corridors) should go through a diagonal direction from Bucuresti to Chisinau. For the direction Tg Mures-Iasi-Chisinau there is no corridor, so no money (in terms of financing corridors, only 15-25 % for TEN-T).
And if you are telling me that Romania can't afford 2 or 3 projects of highway in Moldova region, I don't buy that. We have the examples of 2 highways (A1 and A3 (shorter for the moment) which crosses Transilvania. It's up to Romanian Government to find the right solutions in order to acces UE, PPP or national budget funds for the construction of Ploiesti-Focsani-Bacau-Siret, Focsani-Albita or Iasi-Tg. Mures. From my point of view, Focsani-Albita should be financed with priority. The main reasons are:

1. the shortest distance linking Bucuresti to Chisinau (as classical version of C IX) and the easiest to construct.
2. 85 % eligible from UE cohesion funds.
3. will diminish the territorial disparities between eastern part of Moldova with the western part
4. will generate traffic for Moldova and Republic of Moldova and therefor money.
5. the investors will come to Moldova and especially Vaslui/Galati counties and invest here - agriculture and regenerabile energy.

Let's first build Dumbrava-Focsani sector at highway standard and then will see what's next.
I think if a highway will be constructed for Dumbrava-Focsani sector, it will be one of the most intense circulated highway in Romania, because it gathers all the traffic to Moldova, to Ukraine, Republic of Moldova and even Russia.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #6257
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[QUOTE=cove_adrian;106196995]
Quote:
For the direction Tg Mures-Iasi-Chisinau there is no corridor, so no money (in terms of financing corridors, only 15-25 % for TEN-T).
I know. That's why if we move the corridor through Iasi then we shall have EU money for the common part (Tg Frumos- Iasi- Ungheni). As for the moldavian side I'm sure it could be find a solution to build a 170 km motorway from Chisinau to Ungheni.

Quote:
And if you are telling me that Romania can't afford 2 or 3 projects of highway in Moldova region
I said that in my opinion would be more useful to build througn Iasi instead of Barlad. So not picking both.

Quote:
From my point of view, Focsani-Albita should be financed with priority. The main reasons are:
Quote:
1. the shortest distance linking Bucuresti to Chisinau (as classical version of C IX) and the easiest to construct.
correct
Quote:
2. 85 % eligible from UE cohesion funds.
it will be the same percentage if goes through Iasi
Quote:
3. will diminish the territorial disparities between eastern part of Moldova with the with the western part
western part western part of Moldavia? I don get it
Quote:
4. will generate traffic for Moldova and Republic of Moldova and therefor money.
Normal way: level of traffic demands motorways not build motorways to generate traffic.
Of course through Iasi and building in time also the link with Transylvania Tg Mures it will be much more traffic on this way than through Barlad.

Bucharest- Focsani- Bacau- Tg Frumos (junction here with Oradea- Cluj- Tg Neamt) - Iasi- Ungheni- Chisinau will attract traffic from/to:
1. W Romania, W Europe
2. north east part of Romania (major cities like Iasi, Suceava, bacau, Piatra Neamt)
3. South Romania, Balkans, Turkey

Bucharest- Focsani- Barlad- Husi- Albita
only South Romania, Balkans, Turkey
as for Galati the distance from Galati/ Braila cities to Albita is big (180-200 km) and they will take instead Giurgiulesti

Quote:
5. the investors will come to Moldova and especially Vaslui/Galati counties and invest here - agriculture and regenerabile energy.
so why not build through Botosani? Or through Pascani? There are many poor regions and you can not build motorways all over. If you build through Iasi the motorway will be longer and will connect more cities and population than through Barlad.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #6258
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I know. That's why if we move the corridor through Iasi then we shall have EU money for the common part (Tg Frumos- Iasi- Ungheni). As for the moldavian side I'm sure it could be find a solution to build a 170 km motorway from Chisinau to Ungheni.
For Tg. Mures-Iasi-Ungheni we have only 15%, maxim 25 % because is not a corridor, only TEN-T.

Quote:
I said that in my opinion would be more useful to build througn Iasi instead of Barlad. So not picking both.
From where we should get the money? For Iasi is available a mixture of PPP+ 15-25% from UE? For Barlad is available 85%. Let's build fast and first to Barlad and the money collected from highway taxation-vignettes to sustain other projects such as Iasi or Bacau.

Quote:
correct
it will be the same percentage if goes through Iasi
western part western part of Moldavia? I don get it
Normal way: level of traffic demands motorways not build motorways to generate traffic.
Of course through Iasi and building in time also the link with Transylvania Tg Mures it will be much more traffic on this way than through Barlad.
The reason to build through Barlad is that UE established the route through there. That's why there is a pan-european corridor. Not to Iasi, Bacau, Suceava or Piatra-Neamt. For Iasi is TEN-T. So, Romania invested in advance in Albita custom and Republic of Moldova invested also, a lot of money (having the fact that their financial support is limited due to its economy) upgrading M 1 (the busiest road in Moldova). So, having these 2 main reasons and investing along the corridor in both countries, we can say that "level of traffic demands motorways not build motorways to generate traffic."

Right?

Quote:
Bucharest- Focsani- Bacau- Tg Frumos (junction here with Oradea- Cluj- Tg Neamt) - Iasi- Ungheni- Chisinau will attract traffic from/to:
1. W Romania, W Europe
2. north east part of Romania (major cities like Iasi, Suceava, bacau, Piatra Neamt)
3. South Romania, Balkans, Turkey
right.

Quote:
Bucharest- Focsani- Barlad- Husi- Albita
only South Romania, Balkans, Turkey
as for Galati the distance from Galati/ Braila cities to Albita is big (180-200 km) and they will take instead Giurgiulesti
Are you telling me that if we have a highway through Barlad Valley, the traffic
from W Romania and W Europe won't choose Albita? Right now lorries from W Romania go to Albita, instead of Ungheni/Stanca Costesti or even Oancea.
It's logic and fast to through Albita and from there to Republic of Moldova.

Quote:
so why not build through Botosani? Or through Pascani? There are many poor regions and you can not build motorways all over. If you build through Iasi the motorway will be longer and will connect more cities and population than through Barlad.
It was an argument sustaining the decision of UE to establish the corridor through Barlad River Valley.

Financial support in percent of 85% is available for Pan-European Corridor, not for Botosani or Pascani.

BTW, Pascani is situated on railway component of C IX (Bucuresti-Ploiesti-Buzau-Focsani-Bacau-Pascani-Iasi-Ungheni).
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Old August 15th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #6259
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They just opened the bridge Calafat- Vidin and also on the bulgarians side they are preparing to build an expressway Botevgrad- Vidin, thus connecting the bridge with Hemus motorway and then Sofia, seaside, Greece, Turkey etc. From what you suggest the trucks and the traffic from Calafat bridge has to go to Craiova? I'm afraid they want to travel west and indeed Lugoj- Calafat will be a priority within 2014-2020 cycle. Otherwise why EU has financed the bridge?
Did I miss your part above that a motorway must connect the important cities in a certain region?
So, how can you miss Craiova, and miss the link with the Craiova-Pitesti motorway!?! Otherwise put: how did Timisoara get on A1 in the end, because it was not on the begining there?!

BTW: The motorways in any given country shouldn't be built only for the international traffic. The local traffic has a point too. I thought that was obvious by now, especially that Romania contributes with money too.

As I said. With the construction of Pitesti-Craiova, all the traffic from the bridge will go to C IV north, which will be hopefully completed by 2016. On the other hand, international trucks and local traffic are becoming a huge problem on the current route of CIX. How do you deal with that?!


That was the point of the minister too, I believe.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #6260
Le Clerk
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We should have 2 motorway connections with Moldova: one in Albita and one in Iasi. At least, that is also in all the motorway masterplans.

Let's build first the shortest and cheapest: Ploiesti-Albita, which is feasible with the EU money left from the construction of Sibiu-Pitesti in the 2014-2020 budgetary cycle, and then see how can we connect CIX with the future TgMures-Iasi motorway, and further to the Ukrainian border. That is feasible only after 2020 anyways, under the current finances conditions. There is not enough money left from the EU to build a motorway from Ploiesti to Iasi between 2014-2020. So, what if there were enough EU money to build a motorway from Focsani to Iasi after 2020?!
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