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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #6441
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Le Clerk, why does A6 appears there? I though they didn't yet know its route or even if it were meant to be a motorway.
A6 is the oficial designation for CIV south. When it will be built...
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #6442
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???
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #6443
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Why there so many delays of the A1???
Land slides and legal procedures.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #6444
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Originally Posted by albertocsc View Post
Le Clerk, why does A6 appears there? I though they didn't yet know its route or even if it were meant to be a motorway.

And... wasn't it starting in Pitești?
The first 10 km of A6 are included in the contract to build Lugoj-Deva lot 1, and are in contruction as we speak. They should be delivered sometime in December. The rest are completely unknown, the path should be decided after a FS is made. But first, the goverment is still deciding whether they should focus on completing the A1 through the mountains or continuing the A6 using the (somewhat) limited funds from the EU. after that decision is made, the tender for one of the FS should begin.

The endpoint of the A6 is still uncertain, the signs suggest it might be Calafat, but it could also be Craiova, or even Bucharest, via Alexandria. Pitesti is unlikely, that's an entirely different motorway, unnofficial sources say is should be called A12, I think
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Old September 10th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #6445
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You can't expect to build all your needed motorways in a decade. Hungary did a great job expanding its network, but remember it took countries like France (1960 - 2005), Sweden (1960 - 2000) or Germany (1935 - 1940 & 1955 - 2010) also four - five decades to get an integrated network of motorways.

Only a few countries developed most of their network in 25 years or less, these are Portugal (1990 - 2010), Italy (1955 - 1975) and Spain (1995 -2010). Poland has currently a huge momentum to build a significant proportion of their network in 2 decades (2005-2025).

correct, this is very costly and complex project. you cannot expect to have a basic network in less then 15 productive years.

three years ago I took a part in an interesting knowledge exchange over this forum.



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....
I do not think we'll be able to build 2700 km of motorway in 10 years, but I would be ready to bet some money on 2000 km to be built by 2020. Hopefully.

I am afraid within next 10 years you will not even have a half of what you bet. look at Italy, the mountainous country. they have altogether 6500 km, it took them 80 years to achieve that result.

I am not an expert of road construction projects, but who calculated funds for 2000 km of motorways ? how much is 1 km of motorway in Romania ? how much would it be within 10 years ?

ltaken fro italian highways thread:



OK. you may say this is not a one-to one example. anyway if we assume the romanian plain is quite similar to the italian one, than just "a modernization" is worthy €11 billion for less than 500 km. it is not easy to find €40-50 billion for 2000km (even from UE )
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #6446
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correct, this is very costly and complex project. you cannot expect to have a basic network in less then 15 productive years.
Unless you are a small rich country playing catch-up - cf Ireland.

It didn't quite complete its network in 15 years ('96 to '11), but it went from a handful of small motorway bypasses to an almost-complete network with not that much left to do. It went from being about 10% complete to 80% complete in that short time. And about half that network was built in the 2006-11 5 year period.

Of course, Ireland is rather small.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #6447
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Ireland only has 1 motorway tunnel and only 1 noteworthy viaduct on the entire network, being flat. Furthermore Irish Motorways are mainly the same design standard and 120kph speeds as Polish expressways. The motorways built in Poland and Romania in the last 5 years are a higher standard. 120kph is fine in a small country. It was nowhere near as big a challenge as faced by some other countries.

Non motorway national roads in Ireland , 4000km of them, are really crap as Ireland concentrated mainly on Motorways but yes the Motorway network is 80% complete but with around 250km to build on top of the 1000km completed already. On the other hand 3000km of the 4000km of non motorway roads also need to be upgraded ( or simply downgraded from national roads in some cases)

I think Serbia has the best plan of all which is to finish 80% of their motorway network by 2017 or so and before they join the EU and get hit with all the ecological nonsense the EU has and the incredible delays these regulatons cause....they have adopted 0% of the environmental regulations so far.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #6448
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Poland has been and is building 2 motorways east - west.
3 "long" motorways projects:

A1 (north-south)

A2 (east-west)

A4 (east-west)

+3 "small" motorways(A6, A8, A18)

The rest are expressways (but as I learned on this forum they would have motorway standard in many countries)

Last edited by MonteChristo; September 10th, 2013 at 07:06 PM.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 02:23 PM   #6449
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The rest are expressways (but as I learned on this forum they would have motorway standard in many countries)
Not in Romania! I favour expressways as long as they are at most aprox. 100km long. Poland has projects for 500+ km expressways..
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Old September 11th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #6450
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I do not understand. what is wrong with expressways which do not meet your conditions ?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #6451
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I do not understand. what is wrong with expressways which do not meet your conditions ?
I didn't say there is something wrong. I was just pointing out that Polish Expwys are not at the same standard as Ro motorways.

As for expressways that are 700km long, i would rather prefer motorways since they are wider and allow faster speed. Just that.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #6452
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in general I have not driven any expressways in europe except Austria. I did not feel/spot any difference between austrian S4 and austrian a2 (sorry for my ignorance for those who do)

in poland the expressway lane width is 3,5 m while motorway one is 3,75 m. these 25 cm make a difference if you drive over 160 km/h. there are some other unnoticeable differences (more exits allowed, etc) but who cares of them ?

still I don't understand why you say "700 km long expressway"
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Old September 11th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #6453
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Expressways were classically sub-standard motorways, i.e. roads that require more attention to drive, chiefly due to poor geometric standards and high volumes in urban areas, as opposed to motorways, which had a more optimal alignment which allows for a more care-free ride.

However, the difference have faded, and what is considered an expressway in one country could be considered a motorway in the other or vice versa. For example Polish expressways allow up to 120 km/h, which is the same limit as motorways have in several other countries. Some countries even allow the same speed limit on expressways as on motorways. In case of Spain, the difference between an autovía and an autopista has completely faded except for the possibility of tolls. Nearly all expressways in Poland function like motorways would have in Germany or France, with high-speed, long-distance traffic.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #6454
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BUMP!

Not a big deal, but the new leadership of the motorways authority seems to be dropping Sibiu-Pitesti motorway, and propose instead a Sibiu-Brasov motorway, with a connection to A3 Brasov-Bucharest, which is due to be cleared by end of October. The reason? Money. Building Sibiu-Pitesti would take up most of the EU money for 2014-2020, so they want to build more km instead, apparently in east Romania.


Talking of parallel motorways .. in't it, sponge bob?!
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #6455
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Not a big deal, but the new leadership of the motorways authority seems to be dropping Sibiu-Pitesti motorway, and propose instead a Sibiu-Brasov motorway, with a connection to A3 Brasov-Bucharest, which is due to be cleared by end of October. The reason? Money. Building Sibiu-Pitesti would take up most of the EU money for 2014-2020, so they want to build more km instead, apparently in east Romania.
But I don't understand why they want to build a motorway Sibiu-Brasov. It does not cross the Carpathians. There will be no connection to Bucharest!
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #6456
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Brasov-Comarnic motorway (part of Brasov-Bucharest motorway) will be signed in October, and will be completed well before Sibiu-Pitesti. It'd be much easier and cheaper to move CIV on Sibiu-Brasov-Bucharest, once Brasov-Comarnic is completed.

Brasov-Comarnic is half the lenght of Sibiu-Pitesti.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #6457
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How long is the route Sibiu-Brasov-Bucharest instead of Sibiu-Pitesti-Bucharest?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 11:54 PM   #6458
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Brasov-Sibiu distance on motorway should be about 130 km or even less. At an average cost of EUR 6-7 million / km would amount to a total of EUR 1 billion, at most, or about 600 million in a sober scenario.

Sibiu-Pitesti is estimated at EUR 3 billion or more.

Brasov-Comarnic is estimated at EUR 1 billion.

Overall, costs of taking CIV through Sibiu-Brasov-Bucharest would be half than through Sibiu-Pitesti and 1/4 of EU funds of 2014-2020.

It's just a nuts idea so far, but spelled by the head of the motorways authority ....
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Old September 12th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #6459
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The A3 route Sibiu-Bucharest is about 20% longer (~50km) than the A1 route. It seems to be a good workaround.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #6460
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Yeah, but it's also 4 times cheaper, in terms of EU money costs.
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