daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 12th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #6461
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,948
Likes (Received): 2199

No reason why Romania should not try for €5-6bn of EU money (10% of it) given the enormous infrastructure deficit to be addressed. The Poles got way more than that on average in the last 2 funding periods ( 2000-7 and 2007-13). The Poes don't go to Brussels seemingly with a new plan every other week though.

But do try to finish one motorway from the Hungarian border to Bucharest by 2020.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 12th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #6462
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

Thanks Le Clerk, even though I don't always agree with you, I enjoy your constant updates.
The "new" route via Brasov would be perfect, at least for me!
Let's hope they do at least get to build the Comarnic-Brasov section asap!
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #6463
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

Brasov and the mountain resorts deserve much better connections and a fast connection would be good for tourism as well. It may not be the most direct connection, but if it is the most affordable it may also mean it gets built quicker, perhaps Bucharest will be connected to the european network by 2020 after all
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 09:30 AM   #6464
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
BUMP!

Not a big deal, but the new leadership of the motorways authority seems to be dropping Sibiu-Pitesti motorway, and propose instead a Sibiu-Brasov motorway, with a connection to A3 Brasov-Bucharest, which is due to be cleared by end of October. The reason? Money. Building Sibiu-Pitesti would take up most of the EU money for 2014-2020, so they want to build more km instead, apparently in east Romania.


Talking of parallel motorways .. in't it, sponge bob?!

we were talking about two parallel motorways no more than a month ago. that time the idea of building two parallel motorways situated not far away from each other was not reliable for me at all.
in the country with no motorway network, it is very risky to assume that two parallel motorways would be built in the same time.


well in fact my assumption was wrong, i was putting money on one motorway - A1, while a hybrid solution pops up: A3 becomes A1

looks like EU guys see it in the similar way: lets build one, long distance motorway instead of some, not-linked pieces of two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
first of all I am not an expert, just an enthusiast, so my knowledge is far from what experts expect ...

but I would imagine that:
finance insitution willing to finance A3 would see a map of Romania and recognize A1 route as a competitor. soon (in short period of time) a backbone of Romania.
will they find - in time of crisis - internal strenght to collect suitable funds ?

whether it is a ppp projects or consession one I do not think it matters.
my reasons:
a) there were (as you wrote) two attepmts and the idea failed. of course conditions could have been not well managed, but in time of crisis finding a sponsor with 1,5 bln euro in a pocket is a real challange
b)a short stretch of motorway which ends in the middle of nowhere. well, not "nowhere", actaully just to serve People of Kronstadt ....
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #6465
ionutz_08
Registered User
 
ionutz_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: cluj napoca
Posts: 219
Likes (Received): 102

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Brasov-Comarnic motorway (part of Brasov-Bucharest motorway) will be signed in October, and will be completed well before Sibiu-Pitesti. It'd be much easier and cheaper to move CIV on Sibiu-Brasov-Bucharest, once Brasov-Comarnic is completed.

Brasov-Comarnic is half the lenght of Sibiu-Pitesti.
and even if you need to take a 50-70 km detour on the motorway to cross the mountains I think thats very much OK
__________________
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat
ionutz_08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #6466
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,948
Likes (Received): 2199

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
we were talking about two parallel motorways no more than a month ago. that time the idea of building two parallel motorways situated not far away from each other was not reliable for me at all.
in the country with no motorway network, it is very risky to assume that two parallel motorways would be built in the same time.

Very correct, one would cannibalise the other traffic wise and financially. Hungary had a PPP disaster in the 1990s from Gyor to the Austrian border where you would think one motorway would be OK, financially. It is still the ONLY motorway to Western Europe from Romania and SE Europe if one wants to avoids the expensive Czech transits. Story of the Hungarian PPP mess here

The route from Brasov west to the Hungarian Border has been a 'priority' for the EU for quite some time.......see this map and look at the date.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #6467
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post

The route from Brasov west to the Hungarian Border has been a 'priority' for the EU for quite some time.......see this map and look at the date.
Isn't that the railway axis? That is currently U/C on that same route. More than 50% is already completed.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #6468
albertocsc
Translator and traveller
 
albertocsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Frankfurt - Hahn
Posts: 495
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
well in fact my assumption was wrong, i was putting money on one motorway - A1, while a hybrid solution pops up: A3 becomes A1
I don't think there is a need to convert A3 south to A1 or even moving Corridor IV. They could build A3 Bucharest-Fagaras, a short ¿A31? Fagaras-Sibiu and then A1 up to the Hungarian border. (I think this is what is in fact said in last posts).

And when more funding is avalaible, they should build the complete A1 and A3.

---

Also talking about Brasov, I think they should extend DN2L to Oancea (RO) - Cahul (MD) border crossing. The part east of Tecuci of that route is made up of Drumuri Judeteane and there are even some stone-paved roads.
__________________

Samply liked this post

Last edited by albertocsc; September 12th, 2013 at 04:41 PM.
albertocsc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #6469
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,948
Likes (Received): 2199

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Isn't that the railway axis? That is currently U/C on that same route. More than 50% is already completed.
It is, now the road is seemingly moving onto that axis too ( 12 years later)
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #6470
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertocsc View Post
I don't think there is a need to convert A3 south to A1 or even moving Corridor IV. They could build A3 Bucharest-Fagaras, a short ¿A31? Fagaras-Sibiu and then A1 up to the Hungarian border. (I think this is what is in fact said in last posts).

And when more funding is avalaible, they should build the complete A1 and A3.

---
That's the way I see it, particularly with the A3 already built to Fagaras, the extension to Sighisoara, Targu Mures and the already built section to Cluj would hopefully become a reality in the not too distant future.
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2013, 08:32 AM   #6471
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Yea, so next questions:

1. Why did they get EU approval for Sebes-Turda section for funding? If CIV is temporarily "moved" to Bucharest-Brasov-Sibiu ... why not build with the EU money on Sibiu-Fagaras, for ex?!

2. What's gonna happen with traffic required for the upcoming concession contract on A0 south, which obviously assumes CIV on Valea Oltului (Pitesti-Sibiu)?! Will they build A0 north?!


Many questions unanswered. And seems really "smart" to change the strategy now, when the EU motorway priorities are decided, with the EU help or not. There is not FS for Brasov-Sibiu.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #6472
albertocsc
Translator and traveller
 
albertocsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Frankfurt - Hahn
Posts: 495
Likes (Received): 49

I answer this questions not as an expert would do, but just as the naïve guy I am, who believes everything politicians tells us about new infrastructures is just true. Please anyone with more info can answer them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Yea, so next questions:

1. Why did they get EU approval for Sebes-Turda section for funding? If CIV is temporarily "moved" to Bucharest-Brasov-Sibiu ... why not build with the EU money on Sibiu-Fagaras, for ex?!
As long as A3+'A31' (Fagaras-Sibiu) makes a temporary detour for A1, 'A13' (Sebes-Turda)+'A31' could be the temporary detour for A3, until real A3 Fagaras-Tîrgu Mures-Turda is built.
They just also need to add that A31 to EU motorway funding list.

By the way, A31+A13 is in the Trans-European network (TEN-T), what would make funds for both come easier, while A3 in that stretch is not.

*A13 and A31 are just numbers invented by myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
2. What's gonna happen with traffic required for the upcoming concession contract on A0 south, which obviously assumes CIV on Valea Oltului (Pitesti-Sibiu)?! Will they build A0 north?!
A0 South (ACB, B50 or A10 would sound better to me) would need to stand on traffic coming from A1 from Pitesti, DN 7 in the Olt Valley and new Craiova motorway in one hand, DN 5 from Giurgiu in the other hand, and A2 to Dobrogea in the third hand.
ACB North would need to be built too, at least between DN1, A3 and A2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Many questions unanswered. And seems really "smart" to change the strategy now, when the EU motorway priorities are decided, with the EU help or not. There is not FS for Brasov-Sibiu.
If they do it orderly and with smartness, it could be the solution to link Bucharest to Europe with motorways in a shorter amount of years, with EU help.
By the way, studies for the Brasov-Sibiu stretch just need to be done in the shortest time possible.
albertocsc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #6473
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2080

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
And seems really "smart" to change the strategy now, when the EU motorway priorities are decided, with the EU help or not.
Is there already a final decision?

Some EU money was also assigned for several sections of the German A14. Due to not all sections were built in that period (planning procedure still in progress), the scheduled money has been shifted to other projects within the last few month.

I expect that Romania is not a stupid and bureaucratic republic as Germany is. But if I am wrong there is no matter .

@albertocsc: Sounds good .
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #6474
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

It's only a possibility under discussion now.

BTW: Commissioner Hahn was here to negotiate the Romanian infrastructure masterplan for 2014-2020. Romania is asking for Eur 15 billion. We'll see if it is approved. The Commissioner seemed understanding with the RO Gov plans calling them "coherent". By Oct 2013 we should have the Ro masterplan approved.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

Last edited by Le Clerk; September 13th, 2013 at 01:53 PM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #6475
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012


ZF
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #6476
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19363

43.5 kilometer per year. Hardly impressive.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #6477
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Motorway construction started in earnest in 2010, when the EU funds were put to (good) use.

PS: 100 km are yet to be opened later this year.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #6478
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55

the chart presents history.

more important: what is going to happen in the nearest future (like 2020). which figure will it reach ?
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #6479
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

That is a trap question.

Personaly, I would say the following will happen, in order of completion:

- rest of A1 sections (~ 100 km)
- Sebes-Turda (70 km)
- Bacau by-pass (30 km)
- A0 south (50 km)
- Brasov-Comarnic (55 km)
- Craiova-Pitesti (121 km)
- Bors-Suplacu (64 km)
- Sibiu-Fagaras-Brasov ( ~ 150 km)
- Dumbrava-Focsani (130 km)
- A0 north (~ 50 km)

That's a total of 820 km. On top of the 648 km by the end of this year would get to a total of 1468 km. This is an optimistic scenario IMO.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #6480
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Comarnic-Brasov highway route is changed
BUSINESS | NINEOCLOCK | SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2013 AT 9:00 PM

The route of the Comarnic-Brasov highway was changed almost one month before the winner of the concession agreement. Thus, the highway will no longer “almost cut through the middle of Busteni”, after it was decided that approximately 10 km of tunnel will be built on the approximately 58 km long highway, according to the General Manager of CNADNR, Narcis Neaga, as cited by gandul.info. “If we had followed the route indicate din the feasibility study, the highway would have cut right through the middle of Busteni locality”, Narcis Neaga stated for Gandul. “Practically three tunnels will be built: at Sinaia, Busteni and Predeal, amounting to 10 km”, he added.

Both the new highway route and the maximum price threshold at which the negotiation for the final price will start will not be made public during the negotiations. “The offers will start on October 15 and the agreement will be signed after. I expect the work will be completed in 2016,” Neaga optimistically forecasted. The CNADNR Manager also explained that during the competitive dialogue it was decided to increase the designing speed from 80 km/h, as specified in the feasibility study for a large stretch of the Comarnic-Brasov highway, to 100-120 km/h. “The initial speed was more for a national road, but we agreed it would be a highway,” the CNADNR Manager said further. In turn, the Prahova County Council chief, Mircea Cosma, said the highway would be “much more picturesque” than the route specified in the feasibility study.
Source


This is a possible view from the motorway

__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

Last edited by Le Clerk; September 18th, 2013 at 12:01 AM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, infrastructure, motorways, romania

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium