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Old October 17th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #6581
Theijs
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Works at the 2 railway overpasses on Arad north bypass are still suspended because of lack of founds from the government.
And the city council (led by a democrat mayor) isn't able to finance the finalisation of these overpasses?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 12:57 AM   #6582
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Not if the owner of that road is the national road company.
City council can finance local roads (DC), county council can finance county roads (DJ).
National roads (DN) and motorways (A) are all owned by CNADR (national road company) financed by state budget.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #6583
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The EU has changed it's TEN-T core network. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-897_en.htm

In Romania the core network is now as follows: River Danube, Budapest - Arad, Arad - Brasov, Brasov-Bucharest, Arad - Timisoara, Timisoara - Craiova, Craiova - Sofia, Craiova - Bucharest, Bucharest - Sofia.



These changes look like the recent changes in network priorities of the Romania Government - that the A6 and A3 crossings of the mountains are more important than the A1 one.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #6584
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Well, well.

The EC has accepted to:

1. Move the former CIV from Pitesti-Sibiu to Bucharest-Brasov.
2. Make a U turn to Craiova on the future Sofia-Timisoara motorway - as I was arguing here previously.
3. There appears a core connection in between Bucharest and Craiova, and further to Sofia.
4. No core network in east Romania.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #6585
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Better Map here

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/infras...rridor_map.pdf

This is a far better proposal for Romania overall. The intent is to parallel the northern corridor ( Arad Brasov Bucharest ) with a high speed railway line and the networks shown are to be completed by 2030 ( including a connection to Ukraine and Moldova) . Romania is in blue along with Hungary , that is because the map actually shows a Rhine - Danube multimode core corridor ( Rail Road and Water with transfers from one to the other, eg a Port in Calafat can transfer to road etc.

Serbia is included for the first time, Belgrade to Bucharest via the southern Danubian route is a core route. I am amazed they left out Belgrade - Sofia direct seeing as it likely to be complete by 2017 and also Belgrade - Zagreb which is complete.

Last edited by sponge_bob; October 17th, 2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #6586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Serbia is included for the first time, Belgrade to Bucharest via the southern Danubian route is a core route.
The Danube has always been a core TEN-T route - nothing new there...
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I am amazed they left out Belgrade - Sofia direct
It's a bit hard to travel that way by boat!
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #6587
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
The EU has changed it's TEN-T core network. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-897_en.htm
Ho Lee Fuk, 85% of passenger transport in Europe is by car and all they talk about are railways? Is "highway" or "motorway" not fancy enough for a press release?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #6588
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Considering how the projects for Moldova look like, I think it would've been off better by being a country of it's own. The RO government just collects taxes from the place but doesn't do anything in there.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #6589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ho Lee Fuk, 85% of passenger transport in Europe is by car and all they talk about are railways? Is "highway" or "motorway" not fancy enough for a press release?
Road is there 9 times, Rail 19, Waterways 9.

It's like it's the 1840s and these new rail things are trumping canals, but canals are still rather good for heavy stuff. These roads, however, well the less said about them the better!

It could very well be that the A6 route is the priority road route and the A3 route the rail axis. Still, there's still a dislike of Pitesti-Sibiu.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:14 PM   #6590
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Considering how the projects for Moldova look like, I think it would've been off better by being a country of it's own. The RO government just collects taxes from the place but doesn't do anything in there.
There are apperently not enough voters to make any infrastructural investments.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #6591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ho Lee Fuk, 85% of passenger transport in Europe is by car and all they talk about are railways? Is "highway" or "motorway" not fancy enough for a press release?
Haha, whenever I read or hear about stuff like this, I'm reminded of the idea that there are probably some anti-car extremists in the EU Government.......like that EU Politician who said that sports cars are evil.

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Old October 17th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #6592
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Originally Posted by Theijs View Post
There are apperently not enough voters to make any infrastructural investments.
actually there are..a lot of them..but they are stupid enaough to vote the socialists even if they don't get any attention
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Old October 17th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #6593
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Considering how the projects for Moldova look like, I think it would've been off better by being a country of it's own. The RO government just collects taxes from the place but doesn't do anything in there.
In fact it's the other way. The counties from Moldova become generally more than they produce.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #6594
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The problem is that all, again, all infrastructure investments have gone to south and west, without exception, for the past 24 years. There is no infrastructure in the east which should support investment. That's a dumbso conclusion. Where there's no connections in the east, there will be no investment and so no revenues. That region needs a change of paradigm, if we want to take it out of isolation. Not investing in infrastructure because it is poor is not the solution obviously. Otherwise, the EU should cut all funds to Romania because it is poor, relativelly speaking.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #6595
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I am afraid you are wrong.
these days EU invests money the way europe tax payers expect. Moldova is - sorry for that - far away from any important transport corridor from Brussels point of view.

of course I understand there is an EU programme to develop the poorest regions. as far I as know there is a local input needed as well. you cannot simply wait until Brussels brings some money to this region. as long as you do not have a realistic vision in Brussels eyes for that region you cannot expect any money injection.

so in my opinion the probel is rather internal than external
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Old October 18th, 2013, 12:57 AM   #6596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post

I am afraid you are wrong.
these days EU invests money the way europe tax payers expect. Moldova is - sorry for that - far away from any important transport corridor from Brussels point of view.

of course I understand there is an EU programme to develop the poorest regions. as far I as know there is a local input needed as well. you cannot simply wait until Brussels brings some money to this region. as long as you do not have a realistic vision in Brussels eyes for that region you cannot expect any money injection.

so in my opinion the probel is rather internal than external
The Moldovan cities have some of the highest EU funds absorption rates in the country, they rehabilitate roads, national roads etc. But none of those can compare to what benefits a highway can bring
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Old October 18th, 2013, 01:26 AM   #6597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ho Lee Fuk, 85% of passenger transport in Europe is by car and all they talk about are railways? Is "highway" or "motorway" not fancy enough for a press release?
Politicians in Brussels love to lecture us about the environment, yet I'm willing to bet they emit far more co2 than most of us writing here.
In countries like Romania in particular, it's a complete waste of money to suggest that railways are a bigger priority than motorways. CFR isn't exactly as trustworthy or efficient as NS. Even if they were, trains can only carry a fraction of the passengers of motorway capacity.
To date Bucharest is still the worst connected capital in continental EU, a motorway connection to the European network should be one of the highest priorities not just for Romania.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 01:44 AM   #6598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
The problem is that all, again, all infrastructure investments have gone to south and west, without exception, for the past 24 years. There is no infrastructure in the east which should support investment. That's a dumbso conclusion. Where there's no connections in the east, there will be no investment and so no revenues.
Not true as Poland got a lot of money and Romania started off their EU 'investment cycle' by giving a dodgy contract to Bechtel, which promptly closed the funding taps.

The EU has also observed that Romania and Bulgaria seem to have priorities that are not EU priorities, but local ones. Bulgaria got away with it though.

The EU is a moving game, Spain and Portugal played it very well but they have built their 'core' motorways now. Spain has some hugely expensive rail plans to mop up more funds though.


Quote:
That region needs a change of paradigm, if we want to take it out of isolation. Not investing in infrastructure because it is poor is not the solution obviously. Otherwise, the EU should cut all funds to Romania because it is poor, relativelly speaking.
Correct, the EU has recognised that 2 road corridors ( and one high speed rail corridor ) between Bucharest and Arad are deserving of heavy investment and if the public procurement policies are properly done they will fund those corridors. But it is not a blank cheque, it needs to be done properly.

The core countries have also managed to shifted the EU emphasis to rail at a time when the roads network is far from complete in key areas in SE Europe. Furthermore the core countries all have multi funding window schemes ( not just 2014 - 2020) but longer term and very capital intensive project like alpine rail tunnels which will swallow cash.

You can blame the Greeks for a lot of the funding problems too. They corraled a lot of the 2007 -2013 EU funding promises and then made a complete mess of everything.

Hungary Bulgaria Greece and Romania should also be prepared to ask for funds collectively and in a pre agreed sequence rather than try to deal with Brussels on their own. Going to Brussels with a 'Hi, we need roads because we are poor' argument is too Greek, it won't work any more.

You gotta sell them a better Europe for all.

Last edited by sponge_bob; October 18th, 2013 at 01:53 AM.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #6599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post

I am afraid you are wrong.
these days EU invests money the way europe tax payers expect. Moldova is - sorry for that - far away from any important transport corridor from Brussels point of view.

of course I understand there is an EU programme to develop the poorest regions. as far I as know there is a local input needed as well. you cannot simply wait until Brussels brings some money to this region. as long as you do not have a realistic vision in Brussels eyes for that region you cannot expect any money injection.

so in my opinion the probel is rather internal than external
It's not different from what I said. It's the Romanian politicians who have failed to invest or to determine investment there, not Brussels.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #6600
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Not true as Poland got a lot of money and Romania started off their EU 'investment cycle' by giving a dodgy contract to Bechtel, which promptly closed the funding taps.
What?! Bechtel had nothing to do with EU funds, and closed no EU tap that hadn't existed in the first place.

Quote:
The EU has also observed that Romania and Bulgaria seem to have priorities that are not EU priorities, but local ones. Bulgaria got away with it though.
LOL. The EU just endorsed Romanian TEN-T priorities. Look up the map!
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