daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 22nd, 2013, 09:03 PM   #6621
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,414
Likes (Received): 2082

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Yes, but that traffic will take the A6 when that is open as it is shorter and flatter.
My main point here in discussing how traffic will take the A6, however, was that the A3 mountain crossing won't be overloaded - unlike what someone was saying upthread.
The transit traffic Hungary-Bucharest will use the A6 after its completion. But the A1/A3 is more important for the national traffic. Please don't forget central Romania. Furthermore it would be the first good mountain crossing route and it will also connect the Northern and the Southern Romania.

As above-mentioned the studies/plans for A1/A3 are more advanced. I personally want to build new roads as soon as possible instead of discussing, changing priorities, changing routes, discussing again,... and not to build any road!
__________________

Le Clerk liked this post
MichiH está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 22nd, 2013, 09:51 PM   #6622
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
That's my question . I guess all A1 contracts b/n Hungary and Sibiu will be signed afterwards.
Yes, hopefully. What's left is the 2 lots on Nadlac-Arad. And then Comarnic-Brasov. Oh, and Sebes-Turda (4 lots). About 155 km in total. That's optimist for this year. With the 50 km signed earlier, it totals more than 200 km of motorway signed for Christmas this year. Not bad.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH liked this post

Last edited by Le Clerk; October 22nd, 2013 at 09:57 PM.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2013, 11:08 PM   #6623
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,562

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The transit traffic Hungary-Bucharest will use the A6 after its completion. But the A1/A3 is more important for the national traffic. Please don't forget central Romania. Furthermore it would be the first good mountain crossing route and it will also connect the Northern and the Southern Romania.
Certainly not saying that it shouldn't be built, or even delayed.

I'm merely disagreeing with this idea that, without the A1 mountain crossing, the A3 will be overloaded. Something that I clearly stated in my last post.

In fact, I am merely developing your response to this post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mman2012 View Post
At Romania's traffic values, A3 without A1 and A1 without A3... mountain crossing will remain an issue (think just of A3 with all the western bound traffic and the Bucharest-Brasov traffic together
where you say that the A6 will relieve the A3 mountain crossing.
sotonsi está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 08:51 AM   #6624
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

Upcoming motorway openings by end this year - in total 86,5 km - according to the Road Company:

Lugoj-Deva LOT1 (27.5 km) (95% now) December
Orastie-Sibiu LOTS 1 (24 km),2 (19 km), 4 (16 km) (85-90%) November-December


Orastie-Sibiu LOT 3 (22 km) (60%) is due for June 2014
Source
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH liked this post
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 04:38 PM   #6625
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
In fact, I am merely developing your response to this postwhere you say that the A6 will relieve the A3 mountain crossing.
A6 has little in common with A3 in terms of structure of traffic. A6 serves clearly mostly pan-European traffic - that's how it gets financed by the EU, while A3 serves mostly national traffic - that's how it does not get financed by the EU.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 06:05 PM   #6626
medicu' de garda
Moderator de garda
 
medicu' de garda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,798
Likes (Received): 1368

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi
It's a mix of modes - these are multi-modal maps showing the high priority corridors. The corridor changes also fit with Romania's recent changes in motorway network priorities that we were discussing before the map appeared*. So this map does, very much, include roads.

*I put the map on this thread as evidence of the change in priorities as Romanian sources weren't apparently good enough for the nay sayers. Will even sods turning on the A3 and A6 mountain crossings be enough to convince them of the changed priorities?
Oh, for crying out loud! Here, I found the map myself. It shows the current EU priorities in road, rail and ship transport. You can see the new corridors designed by the EU, In Romania they are basically the same, only with new names. Corridor IV northern branch became corridor IX which also includes corridor VII (the Danube), while the southern branch is still basically the same, corridor IV. Other than that, the actual courses of these projects are THE SAME. Pitesti-Sibiu is still a valid priority project. No A3 being funded by the EU. The only real loss is that c=former corridor IX is no longer a priority. So apparently no Bucharest to Moldova motorway with 85% funding . That's the real loss.

Happy studying!
EU new TEN-T corridors
__________________
Trust me, I'm an east-european doctor.
medicu' de garda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 06:06 PM   #6627
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Uh-oh...

http://www.capital.ro/detalii-artico...in-187924.html
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 07:26 PM   #6628
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,562

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
Pitesti-Sibiu is still a valid priority project.
So why wasn't it on the multi-modal map of priority projects from the press release?

And, more importantly (and still unaddressed by you), why has the talk in this thread and others since some time in the summer been about how Pitesti-Sibiu has been reduced in priority by the Romanian government, with schemes that better fit an A3-and-A6-as-the-only-mountain-crossings network given lots of talk. Pitesti-Craiova, Sibiu-Faragas, etc if Pitesti-Sibiu was never in doubt?

PS: I like that more detailed map.
sotonsi está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:21 PM   #6629
medicu' de garda
Moderator de garda
 
medicu' de garda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,798
Likes (Received): 1368

Quote:
So why wasn't it on the multi-modal map of priority projects from the press release?
I don't know if you are from Romania or not, but you must know one thing. Our journalists, with few exceptions, are absolute MORONS, with no understanding whatsoever over complex things like infrastructure projects. Not only are they not capable of corectly analising such a decision like the latest TEN-T one, they can't even use the right maps or photos of the thing they are analising. Never, ever trust a single source in romanian media. Ever worse, some newspapers tend to just copy from one another, so you might find the same news in more than 5 sources, and still read a load of crap.

As for the latest talks on the forum, it's correct that the current goverment has expressed it's intentions of pretty much disregarding every priority project that the EU has agreed to finance, and started talking about fantasy projects centered around Brasov, in what seems like a desperate atempt to make the A3 Comarnic-Brasov (actually Cristian) PPP project seem more atractive for the investors currently interested and the banks financing them.

I do not want to start a debate over the utility of said projects, the important thing worth mentioning is that the goverment prefered to throw away projects secured for financing and with semi-complete fesability plans like the Pitesti-Sibiu section of A1, for some that have never even been studied or even mentioned before (this is not even a PFS for the Bacau-Brasov motorway/express road - even that's not decided yet).

It's unclear what will happen in the long term, as it's highly unlikely that the EU will agree to finance such a hasty change of mind in terms of long term projects. All this uncertainty is the reason we were obligated to produce a infrastructure master-plan, before any funding plan for 2014-2020 period would be voted. On the other hand, the EU has proven to be quite maleable recently, as it has agreed to finance the Sebes-Turda motorway, which was resurected from the project's cemetery less than a year ago (apparently it's considered a link-road to corridor IV...), and even the M4 and M5 subway projects.



The future is very very uncertain at the moment, and there's no point in debating the goverment's plans, knowing that they hardly ever stick to them. One thing is sure! Until the first digger starts ripping away the soil in the Prahova valley, there will be no such thing as a Pitesti-Sibiu motorway, and pretty much every major motorway will have to pass via Brasov .
__________________
Trust me, I'm an east-european doctor.
medicu' de garda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #6630
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,562

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
Not only are they not capable of corectly analising such a decision like the latest TEN-T one, they can't even use the right maps or photos of the thing they are analising. Never, ever trust a single source in romanian media. Ever worse, some newspapers tend to just copy from one another, so you might find the same news in more than 5 sources, and still read a load of crap.
The map from the press release wasn't the Romanian media - it was EU/TEN-T.

In fact, my mistrust of Romanian media meant that until you posted the more accurate map that TEN-T buried on their site, I couldn't believe that the EU were still going to fund the A1 mountain crossing, given that official Romanian sources, and what we had from the EU, suggested everything to the contrary.
Quote:
the important thing worth mentioning is that the goverment prefered to throw away projects secured for financing and with semi-complete fesability plans like the Pitesti-Sibiu section of A1
They found it wasn't feasible, didn't they? At that point cut your losses and stop flogging the dead horse.

Better to go with an unknown thing and discover whether it is a good idea, than cling to a debunked plan. IIRC, part of the A1's poor value-for-money is that there was only cross-mountain internal traffic for one (assuming A6 taking all the Timisoara and North and West traffic) motorway, and that the A3 would carry more in preliminary models, as most A1 traffic would use it, whereas that wasn't the case for A3 traffic using the A1.

However, if the EU is throwing money at it, then Romania probably ought to leap at it. It's not like the EU audits infrastructure projects for value-for-money.
sotonsi está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #6631
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
It's not like the EU audits infrastructure projects for value-for-money.
Ehhhhh wrong, such audits have been linked in this thread.

Particularly the recent EU preference for not building a motorway where an expressway will suffice.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #6632
medicu' de garda
Moderator de garda
 
medicu' de garda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,798
Likes (Received): 1368

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi
They found it wasn't feasible, didn't they? At that point cut your losses and stop flogging the dead horse.
Where did you find that conclusion? I'm very curious, since I have never seen a study in Romania that said a project would be inneficient. Besides, it was officially anounced by the EU that the Sibiu-Pitesti route was eligible for 2014-2020 financing, being the only one with a signed agreement.

The only thing I found in the old FS done back in 2007, was that the motorway was going to cost ~3 bilion euros to complete, using a course that crossed the Olt river from one bank to another repeatedly, only using tunnels where there was no other option; then it crossed some relatively unstable hills, climbing a bit before finally tunneling through. Bear in mind, that study was before well before the crisis, so prices would surely be a lot lower should it be built in the next 2 years. Besides, a new FS was supposed to be done last year that would give a new course, perhaps more efficient (fewer bridges, longer tunnels) and a new pice for the project. Since it was never awarded, and we have no results, we can't really argue about its efficiency, can we?

Like I said before, the goverment is currently pretending the A1 doesn't exist, so that the A3 has more chances of being started. We can't say they prefer the A6 either, since they haven't tendered the FS for that course, although the PFS is ready for some months now. They are apparently waiting for a clear EU response, in order to finally make up their minds, which course do they want to finance. Depending on which of these fesability studies we will see tendered first, we will know for sure which motorway will be build using EU money in the following 7 years.
__________________
Trust me, I'm an east-european doctor.
medicu' de garda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #6633
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,414
Likes (Received): 2082

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Yes, hopefully. What's left is the 2 lots on Nadlac-Arad.
Sorry, I wrote bullshit . My question is which contracts are not yet signed or announced to be signed soon. Your answer: 2 lots b/n Nadlac and Arad.

Sorry again, I thought there are only 2 lots b/n Nadlac and Arad. but one is already u/c and the other one should not yet been signed?
MichiH está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #6634
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,184

A1 motorway construction site, seen from above

Astaldi section near Sibiu (far away you can see Sibiu Airport landing strip):



Near Săcel viaduct (far away, right corner of the pic):



A1 motorway, Simeria exit (already open):


Pictures from facebook.com/MaxAir.ro
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #6635
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Sorry, I wrote bullshit . My question is which contracts are not yet signed or announced to be signed soon. Your answer: 2 lots b/n Nadlac and Arad.

Sorry again, I thought there are only 2 lots b/n Nadlac and Arad. but one is already u/c and the other one should not yet been signed?
Both lots had problems and contracts terminated: LOT 1 b/c of some misuse of funds, LOT 2 b/c of Alpine bankruptcy. They were both retendered.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH liked this post
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #6636
Sisimoto the HUN
Registered User
 
Sisimoto the HUN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 391
Likes (Received): 292

I heard about the Vidin-Cafalat "New Europe" Danube bridge issue! How bad is the situation?
I asking this because it is part of the E79 route as well and there are rumors, that the bridge is in danger!!
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CENTRAL HUNGARY RULEZ<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sisimoto the HUN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #6637
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

It's not clear how bad the situation is. For now, the Bulgarian transport minister declared there are several potholes caused by water infiltrations. From his statements, the bridge was poorly insulated and so this problem will be recurring unless smth is done "structurally". It also seems that FCC (the constructor) doesn't have any warranty obligations for this bridge anymore, which is weird IMO. I'd say we need to wait for further clarifications.


Quote:
Serious defects in Bulgaria-Romania Danube Bridge 2, Bulgarian transport minister says

By Clive Leviev-Sawyer / 21/10/2013 / No Comments


An inspection by Bulgarian officials has found 20 serious defects in Danube Bridge 2, opened in mid-June 2013 and which links the Bulgarian city of Vidin with Romania’s Calafat, according to Transport Minister Daniel Papazov.

There is concern that the defects could worsen in winter if water leaking through cracks in the surface ices and expands.

Danube Bridge 2 was hailed as a great step forward when it opened, in part because the new facility relieves the pressure on the ageing Danube Bridge 1 at the Bulgarian city of Rousse. Since its opening, it has drawn huge amounts of road freight traffic.

Recent reports said that there was a pothole in the bridge, but speaking to local media, Papazov was quoted on October 21 as saying, “I do not understand why you talk about a hole in Danube Bridge 2 because there are many holes and a whole series of problems”.

A crucial problem was that drainage was poor, meaning that water accumulated under the asphalt, according to Papazov.

“If it is any comfort, the Romanian part is in worse condition,” Papazov was quoted as saying. There were problems with lighting and traffic lights not working.

But he doubted whether there could be compensation from the Spanish company that built the bridge, because it had been certified by domestic and international committees. Papazov said that he saw no clause in the contract with the builders that could give the right to request correction of serious defects.

The Danube Bridge 2 project was on the drawing board for many years. Construction officially started in May 2007 in the presence of Bulgaria’s then-prime minister, Bulgarian Socialist Party leader Sergei Stanishev. The two halves of the bridge were connected in October 2012, and there was a ceremony celebrating this completion attended by then-prime minister Boiko Borissov. However, the official opening came in June 2013, after months of finishing works on the bridge, now dubbed the New Europe Bridge and said to have cost about 230 million euro.

The issue of infrastructure, including emblematic projects such as Danube Bridge 2, is not without its politics, as the current government of Bulgaria seeks to discredit a predecessor.

Under Borissov, the 2009/13 centre-right GERB government in Bulgaria prided itself on the completion of major infrastructure projects. Now in opposition, GERB has cited incompetence in dealing with infrastructure projects as one of the failings of the current Bulgarian Socialist Party government.

In turn, the current government has sought to portray projects completed with GERB was in office as below-standard, in effect rush jobs.

On October 19, Bulgarian Socialist Party Regional Development Minister Desislava Terzieva, whose performance had come under attack by GERB in a failed motion of no confidence in the government, told local media that more than 80 per cent of the roads in Bulgaria still under warranty had defects.
Source
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

Last edited by Le Clerk; October 26th, 2013 at 04:21 PM.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #6638
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,479
Likes (Received): 12044

Oct 29 to be declared the winners for the 4 LOTS on Sebes-Turda motorway (70 km)

__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #6639
Pascal20a
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 816
Likes (Received): 19

Does the site 130km.ro never more exists?
__________________

EduardSA liked this post
Pascal20a no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #6640
alwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 469
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Oct 29 to be declared the winners for the 4 LOTS on Sebes-Turda motorway (70 km)
15 mill euro/ 1 km ?
__________________
Bucuresti/ Romania
alwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, infrastructure, motorways, romania

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium