daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 10th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #6741
alwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 469
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
The advantage of this route Brasov-Bacau is that it ties east Romania both to Bucharest and West/A1 with one motorway section, which is not very expensive and very difficult to build.
Don't you think that Comarnic- Brasov would become overcrowded?
1. tourist traffic Valea Prahovei, Brasov
2. transit traffic from Valea Oltului
3. traffic Bucharest- east part/Moldavia (with a big detour)
4. traffic Bucharest- Transylvania

You want only one motorway to serve Bucharest, Transylvania and Moldavia all toghether? Doesn't work like this.
__________________
Bucuresti/ Romania
alwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 10th, 2013, 12:27 PM   #6742
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2080

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwn View Post
Don't you think that Comarnic- Brasov would become overcrowded?
Do you think the AADT will be higher than 60,000 vehicles per day until the postponed - not canceled(!!) - A5 and A1 will be completed?
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #6743
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,948
Likes (Received): 2199

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Do you think the AADT will be higher than 60,000 vehicles per day until the postponed - not canceled(!!) - A5 and A1 will be completed?
A 120kph motorway would get crowded at c.60k AADT and that overcrowding would be part of a business case for a PPP operation building the direct A1 mountain section (realistically not till after 2020 some time I suppose) .

But it was pointed out upthread in the past few months that the mountain route to Brasov will be a 100kph road not a 120kph road and which road can handle perhaps 70k AADT before it becomes notably congested.

Lots of 'summer peak traffic' would love to drive the legendary Transfagarasan too don't forget.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #6744
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2080

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Lots of 'summer peak traffic'
Roads are not build for peaks like that b/c they have no economical effect.
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #6745
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwn View Post
Don't you think that Comarnic- Brasov would become overcrowded?
1. tourist traffic Valea Prahovei, Brasov
2. transit traffic from Valea Oltului
3. traffic Bucharest- east part/Moldavia (with a big detour)
4. traffic Bucharest- Transylvania

You want only one motorway to serve Bucharest, Transylvania and Moldavia all toghether? Doesn't work like this.
Let us worry about congestion after they get built - and I mean Comarnic-Brasov, Brasov-Sibiu, and Brasov-Bacau.

At any rate, once A6 will be built, and Craiova-Pitesti (both probably by 2020), the international traffic will move on that route, thus relieving Brasov-Comarnic. The question indeed is whether Sibiu-Pitesti will still make sense, though the minister says it should be built after 2020.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH, Cutarescu liked this post
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #6746
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Orastie-Sibiu, LOT 4 (near Sibiu):

Quote:
Originally Posted by adiarc View Post
poze proaspete de astazi - Astaldi

spre dealul Cristian

image hosted on flickr


mai au un pic la taluzarea malurilor , unde erau acele alunecari

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


rup camasa de protectie din beton si fac alta mult mai mare la cei 2 stalpi de inalta tensiune , relocati

image hosted on flickr


cam asa arata noua protectie din beton

image hosted on flickr


dealul Cristian...mai sunt mici retusuri de facut

image hosted on flickr
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiarc View Post
zid de sprijin..dealul Cristian

image hosted on flickr


nu se lucreaza la spatiile de serviciu de la Cristian..cel mai probabil vor fii functionale doar la anul

image hosted on flickr


spre dealul Sacel

image hosted on flickr


la dealul Sacel mai este o portiune de vreo 100-200 de m cu balast si emulsie...in rest asfalt peste tot

image hosted on flickr


se asfalteaza cu 2 masini..aceasta ...si una ceva mai incolo

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
First pics in the tunels U/C:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adiarc View Post
se curata asfaltul cu peria si se sufla cu aer comprimat , in pregatire pt stratul de uzura

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


si tunelul ; cateva precizari
- tavanul este finisat
- peretii laterali la fel
- de asemenea sunt trase ( prin acele profile metalice ) si cablurile pt iluminat ...mai trebuie asfalt

image hosted on flickr


bateria era pe moarte..asa ca scuze pt calit pozelor

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


pereti sunt finisati..cam asa

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH, Fahrenheit 10, Luki_SL liked this post
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #6747
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Orastie-Sebes: ready for opening

__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH, Fahrenheit 10 liked this post
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #6748
alwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 469
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Let us worry about congestion after they get built - and I mean Comarnic-Brasov, Brasov-Sibiu, and Brasov-Bacau.

At any rate, once A6 will be built, and Craiova-Pitesti (both probably by 2020), the international traffic will move on that route, thus relieving Brasov-Comarnic. The question indeed is whether Sibiu-Pitesti will still make sense, though the minister says it should be built after 2020.
I wouldnt pay too much attention to what minister says. Infrastructure still looks nebulous for the lady. She is lost in universe.
__________________
Bucuresti/ Romania

MichiH liked this post
alwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #6749
alwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 469
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Do you think the AADT will be higher than 60,000 vehicles per day until the postponed - not canceled(!!) - A5 and A1 will be completed?

http://www.capital.ro/detalii-artico...ie-187200.html

according to CESTRIN we should expect 68.000 daily average with 100.000 peaks. CESTRIN even didnt include the new brilliant idea Brasov- Bacau replacing Bucharest-Bacau..
__________________
Bucuresti/ Romania
alwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #6750
Pascal20a
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 816
Likes (Received): 19

When will Lugoj Deva be opened?
Pascal20a no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #6751
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2080

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwn View Post
http://www.capital.ro/detalii-artico...ie-187200.html

according to CESTRIN we should expect 68.000 daily average with 100.000 peaks. CESTRIN even didnt include the new brilliant idea Brasov- Bacau replacing Bucharest-Bacau..
Ok. Today 30,000 vehicles/day on DN1 south of Brasov (Predeal-Azuga), peaks > 50,000. 68,000 / 100,000 in 2020 (about year of completion) w/o "Bucharest-Bacau" traffic.

Quote:
Care autostradă este mai importantă pentru România astăzi: Sibiu – Piteşti sau Lugoj – Calafat? Aceasta este singura întrebare corect europeană!
Lugoj-Calafat (in combination with Sibiu-Brasov-Ploiesti)!

I think you should build 3 motorway connections:
Lugoj-Calafat/Craiova-Pitesti-Bucharest (priority 1a)
Cluj Napoca-Sebes-Sibiu-Brasov-Ploiesti-Bucharest (priority 1a)
Bacau-Focsani-Ploiesti-Bucharest (priority 1b)

I think the point is that A1 Sibiu-Pitesti is simply too expensive now! It should be priority 2 or 3.
__________________

Cutarescu liked this post
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #6752
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55

I might be wrong, but reading above posts I come to conclustion there is no valid, long-term plan for motorway infractructure in Romania.
well, there is discussion aboud advantages and disadvantages of paritcular possible routes, but this one has no FS stude, that one will come across serious problems with financing...
sorry for that but looks like nobody has a clue what route brings Bucuresti to Europe. I might be too pesimistic about it, but this have had been planned a long time ago, if you do not have it at present, then ... what is going to be done by 2020 ? looks like people in Romania responsible for motorway planning have just woken up. shouldit have been done 10 years ago ?
sorry for my sarcasm, but really, planning is not a strong side of Romanian governments.
__________________

bogdymol, MichiH, Cutarescu liked this post
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #6753
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

Look, it's very simple. We have EUR 3 billion to build motorways in 2014-2020 from the EU. And we have 2 alternatives with this money, and they are both possible under the current motorway planning. It's just a matter of decision which is better:

V1. Build Sibiu-Pitesti (110 km in 7 years) and nothing else. This would simply annul the economic reasoning for all PPPs below, bar A0.

V2. Build Lugoj-Craiova-Calafat, 250 km, and Sibiu-Brasov (150 km), and Ploiesti-Comarnic (50 km) with EU money. On top, this would allow Brasov-Comarnic motorway PPP (55 km), Brasov-Bacau motorway PPP (~ 100 kM) and Craiova-Pitesti PPP (110 km), and A0 PPP (100 km).

It's just simple math: 210 km in V1 vs ~ 800 km in V2
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

MichiH, Cutarescu liked this post

Last edited by Le Clerk; November 10th, 2013 at 09:20 PM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #6754
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19363

Why only € 3 billion in 7 years? That's not a whole lot (the Netherlands spends that kind of money in a year on motorway construction & maintenance).
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #6755
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,179

Only "€ 3 billion in 7 years" because that's the amount the EU will finance our new motorways. From our national budget we barely have money to cover that 15% we have to pay (85% - EU) + costs for expropriations and design.
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #6756
medicu' de garda
Moderator de garda
 
medicu' de garda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,798
Likes (Received): 1368

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal20a View Post
When will Lugoj Deva be opened?
Most likely sometime around 2016, if construction works go smoothly, and no builder company ceases to exist in the meantime.



*in case you were reffering to Lugoj-Deva lot1, that one should be ready by mid-December, in the worst possible case scenario. Though part of it might be unusable, due a missing temporary exit at the end of it.
__________________
Trust me, I'm an east-european doctor.
medicu' de garda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #6757
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,179

2 drone videos from the Romanian press recorded on A1 Orastie-Sibiu future motorway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudiurodean View Post
Lot 3 (Impregilio):



Lot 4 (Astaldi):

__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #6758
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,948
Likes (Received): 2199

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why only € 3 billion in 7 years? That's not a whole lot
Sounds too low to me too. Romania has the most significant road deficit in all of the EU. Only €3bn only of all this lot for roads.??? Poland will nearly pull that in every SINGLE year and Poland does not have a similar infrastructure deficit any more.

Some EU funding totals here ( again) this is Social and Regional funding ( called 'Cohesion' nowadays) and not Transport funding which is separate .............. as far as I know.

sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #6759
alwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 469
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
I might be wrong, but reading above posts I come to conclustion there is no valid, long-term plan for motorway infractructure in Romania.
well, there is discussion aboud advantages and disadvantages of paritcular possible routes, but this one has no FS stude, that one will come across serious problems with financing...
sorry for that but looks like nobody has a clue what route brings Bucuresti to Europe. I might be too pesimistic about it, but this have had been planned a long time ago, if you do not have it at present, then ... what is going to be done by 2020 ? looks like people in Romania responsible for motorway planning have just woken up. shouldit have been done 10 years ago ?
sorry for my sarcasm, but really, planning is not a strong side of Romanian governments.
Im afraid y are not wrong. It is not normal to come in 2013 with new ideas (Brasov- Bacau) instead of following the long-term plan. But do we have any long term plan? I mean based on feasibility studies? If we have how come we can afford to change it every 4 years after the elections? and build almost nothing.
We are surpassed twice by Bulgaria in terms of km of motorways/ country surface. But bulgarians have a long-term plan and they are just following, not change every time.
For at least 20 years ( i would say better 40) we knew that Pitesti- Sibiu should be a segment of the connection of Bucharest to Budapest. Today the actual gov is trying to change this route in favour of Bucharest- Brasov (which btw was also a prority in the old plans). EU doesn't know about this new route and maybe they will be reluctant regarding the changes.

Other new smart ideas are just in incubator..
Le Clerck says that a motorway Brasov- Bacau- Iasi could replace 2 planned Iasi- Tg Mures- Cluj and Bucharest- Ploiesti- Buzau- Bacau- Iasi. One instead of two sounds too good to be real.
But does Le Clerck know any feasibility study indicating how many cars willl be willing to travel from Bucharest to east side of Romania through Brasov, basically taking a big detour through north west? and paying the motorway toll?
Or how many cars currently using Pitesti- Sibiu would change to the new motorway Ploiesti- Brasov? Or how much would cost Brasov- Bacau which is actually situated not exacly in the plain?
Not to mention the discussion about A6 Bucharest- Alexandria- Caracal- Craiova just replaced with Pitesti- Craiova.. Does anyone know any feasibility study basis for this change? I don't say that Pitesti - Craiova is a wrong idea but why this one instead of Alexandria?
Anybody knows what planns are in order to link a big metropolitan area (and industrial as well) Braila- Galati with the motorway network? It was an old plan, to build an expressway Buzau- Braila, today abandoned

No, we don't have a long term plan, we just have corrupt and incompetent politicians. In fact we are just drawing the map like we did in the last 20 years without any base, figures, studies.
__________________
Bucuresti/ Romania

JackFrost, MichiH liked this post

Last edited by alwn; November 10th, 2013 at 11:53 PM.
alwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #6760
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,473
Likes (Received): 12012

I am sorry but that is just ... bollocks ! BIG TIME !!!

Tell me please, because you are extolling the virtues of the well drafted EU plan, do we have a FS for Lugoj-Calafat, the new motorway that is desired by the EU ?!?! NO !! Do we have a FS for Sibiu-Pitesti, another motorway under EU planning for 2014-2020 ?!?! Yes, a very old one that needs to be revised. Do we have a FS for Ploiesti-Bacau, which was believed previously to fall under EU financing during 2014-2020 ?! Yes, and a recent one !!!! What did the EU planning just did ?!? Scrapped that route. So please spare us the big EU planning !!!

I just demonstrated EU above, with numbers, whatt is the efficieny difference of the 2 routes. And is is a very big one! I won't say it twice.

_______________________


Quote:
Le Clerck says that a motorway Brasov- Bacau- Iasi could replace 2 planned Iasi- Tg Mures- Cluj and Bucharest- Ploiesti- Buzau- Bacau- Iasi. One instead of two sounds too good to be real.
But does Le Clerck know any feasibility study indicating how many cars willl be willing to travel from Bucharest to east side of Romania through Brasov, basically taking a big detour through north west? and paying the motorway toll?
That's no big detour. The distances to Bucharest will be roughly the same, while this route will open, for the first time, a dirrect motorway route to western Europe for east Romania, which will be taken by trucks coming from Romania, Ukraine, Moldova Russia and going to the west, or viceversa. These very trucks need to go now to Ploiesti first and then go up to Brasov again. So, the motorway will be a huge improvement for trucks, and they will take that route and pay the tolls.

In the previous version, all trucks coming from east Romania would have to go all the way to Bucharest, and then take A1 :Bucharest-Pitesti-Sibiu-Nadlac. This proposal however is a huge improvement because it cuts that route by at least 250 km. Here's a map for those who don't know the cities we are talking about:


Red: route through Bcau-Brasov-Sibiu
Blue: route through Bacau-Ploiesti




Quote:
Or how many cars currently using Pitesti- Sibiu would change to the new motorway Ploiesti- Brasov?
The distance from Bucharest to Sibiu is roughly the same through Pitesti or Brasov. Once a motorway will be from Bucharest to Brasov and then Sibiu, of course most cars and trucks will take that route.

Quote:
Or how much would cost Brasov- Bacau which is actually situated not exacly in the plain?
Do we know how much Lugoj-Calafat will cost, because that is in the mountains as well, in part?! No.

Quote:
Not to mention the discussion about A6 Bucharest- Alexandria- Caracal- Craiova just replaced with Pitesti- Craiova.. Does anyone know any feasibility study basis for this change? I don't say that Pitesti - Craiova is a wrong idea but why this one instead of Alexandria?
You don't need a FS to see that Craiova-Pitesti is much more important than Bucharest-Alexandria-Caracal-Craiova, and that they are competing projects. They were both on the table, only that the first was prioritised against the latter, the normal thing to do, right?!

Quote:
Anybody knows what planns are in order to link a big metropolitan area (and industrial as well) Braila- Galati with the motorway network? It was an old plan, to build an expressway Buzau- Braila, today abandoned
There's an old project for an expressway and a bridge there, on CNADNR website, but there is no funding associated, and the EU is not interested either in its big plans.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

AnOldBlackMarble, MichiH liked this post

Last edited by Le Clerk; November 11th, 2013 at 08:40 AM.
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, infrastructure, motorways, romania

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium