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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #6801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
then who works in CNADR ? dinosaurs ?
if a 1,5 year old mere idea becomes serious enough to spend euro 600 m then how about planning and estimating real needs ? what you are saying means guys from CNADR live in their own, not real world. they could not predict EU trends/needs.
Well the EU Court of Auditors did say something like that only this summer. (and they included Bulgaria in that comment)
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:26 AM   #6802
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the early estimation of the cost for the new project Bacau- Brasov indicates a huge fugure: 3,2 bln / 170 km means around 19 mln Euro/ km.
estimation for Pitesti- Sibiu 3,2 bln Euro (116 km) 28 mln/ km
estimation for Iasi- Tg Mures 6,1 bln (310 km) 20 mln/ km

Bacau- Brasov is not cheap at all
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #6803
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Who made those estimations? Is that a FS?

My response: BS info.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #6804
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There is one other perfectly logical reason why the transcarpathian route may have changed.

The EU is trending towards 'multimodal' corridors now and the main Railway Line from the Romanian Coast to the Hungarian border is via Brasov is it not???

Multimodal means points where goods traffic can switch from rail <> road.

Pitesti is not on a main railway line between the Romanian coast and the Hungarian border, is it??
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #6805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Who made those estimations? Is that a FS?

My response: BS info.
I said "early estimation".

the long term plan start to become a big pie:

http://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-esential...-dupa-2020.htm
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Old November 13th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #6806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Motorways planned in east Romania - Bacau-Brasov (170 km) proposed for EU financing 2014-2020 as I expected:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2469/pbe9.jpg

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Don't they have official maps that looks at least slightly better than paint and google maps?
That article is a joke. It's from a local newspaper journalist that dreams motorways at night. Just look at the numbers:

Quote:
"Pentru un prim tronson al acestei autostrăzi, Ploieşti - Buzău - Focşani, cu o lungime de 142,3 km şi o valoare estimată de 25,4 miliarde lei (5,7 miliarde euro) a fost lansat în acest an anunţul de intenţie pentru concesionarea lucrărilor".
40 M € / km

Quote:
"Autostrada Focşani - Albiţa face parte din traseul AIMN şi are o lungime de 155 km şi o valoare estimată de 31,5 miliarde lei (7 miliarde euro, n.r.)."
45 M € / km

Quote:
"Autostrada Bacău - Braşov are o lungime de 170 km şi costuri estimate de la 3,2 miliarde euro."
19 M € / km

All this in a relative flat area (at most with some low hills). This prices are higher than building a motorway in Himalaya mountains.

Don't believe anything our journalists write. They might write what they dreamed last night.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 11:37 AM   #6807
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What are the plans for Ten - T funded High Speed Rail in Romania from 2013 to 2020 ?? The road alignments may make sense if viewed ALONG with those plans.

I can state for certain that there is a plan to have a high speed multimode corridor (= Road Rail and Danube) from Vienna to Constanta by 2030 and that investments from 2013 to 2020 are PART of that plan.

The Vienna - Constanta multimode corridor is the EU priority, not Corridor IV as such. Corridor IV ( a road ONLY) is really really old fashioned nowadays and it is very disappointing to see politicians talking about it still.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #6808
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There are no plans yet for a High Speed Rail in Romania. Just some dreams to connect Budapest with Bucharest, but no plans. Nobody knows the future route for this railway and when it will be built.

Right now there are ongoing some railway rehabilitation works to speed up the trains to 160 km/h. This works are going on from the Hungarian border near Arad to Brasov (some sections are u/c, others are still at tender stage). From Brasov to Bucharest and then to Constanta the railway is able to meet the standards for 160 km/h (or even 200 km/h on B-CT), but there are problems with the signals so the actual train speeds are lower.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #6809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
There are no plans yet for a High Speed Rail in Romania. Just some dreams to connect Budapest with Bucharest, but no plans. Nobody knows the future route for this railway and when it will be built..
Ok so nobody applied for any funds to built a 200kph (200kph+) track anywhere between 2013 and 2020.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #6810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vchira View Post
your statistic is useless because it is about the perception of corruption not about how corrupt a country is. I am not saying that Romania doesn't strugle with corruption, but romanians are much more critical of their country than any other nation that I know. L.E. well I forgot about Italy! Italy in your statistic are on 72th place....which show that those numbers have nothing to do with how corrupt a country really is.
Italy 72th?? I'm italian but i think we've to stay in lasts positions about corrupcy
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #6811
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Talking about perception ..
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #6812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
What's the latest data on AADT on Brasov- Bacau, Tg. Mures - Bacau, Ploesti - Bacau and Sibiu - Pitesti? What's the AADT projection after the construction of the motorways?

New Europe bridge site with traffic data.
The AADT from 2010 census elaborated by CESTRIN are:

1. DN 2 Bucuresti-Bacau an average value of 16.261 vehicules
2. DN 11 Brasov-Bacau an average value of 7.808 vehicules
3. DN 15 Tg. Mures-Bacau an average value of 5.751 vehicules
4. DN 1+DN 11 Ploiesti-Bacau (via Brasov) an average value of 21.630 vehicules (DN1) + 7.808 vehicules (DN 11)
5. DN 7 Pitesti-intersection with DN 1 (near Sibiu/Talmaciu) an average value of 12.349 vehicules

These are the current road traffic values measured in 2010!

The AADT projection in 2015 based on Cestrin (source from 2006) is represented here:

http://storage0.dms.mpinteractiv.ro/...fic-rutier.jpg
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Old November 13th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #6813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Sebes-Turda motorway was also just a mere idea came out of the blue 1.5 years ago, now it is already approved and financed by the EU, and tendered. That's about EUR 600 m that Romania got from the EU on the last meters of the 20007-2013 financing period.
That's not true at all, Le Clerk. It was an idea resurected out of the blue 1.3 years ago, but the FS for that road exists sinces 2007, when it was planned as an expressroad. The plan used for the tender differs slightly from the original one, meaning it now has motorway stardards for contruction, and has a different course near the town of Aiud, crossing the Mures river 4 (FOUR) times. This is the reason they were able to propose the project to the EU and launch the tender that fast.

On the same basis they are trying to shove Sibiu-Brasov down the EU's throat, because Sibiu-Fagaras also has a FS from 2007, also as an express road. AFAIK Fagaras-Brasov, being part of Transilvania motorway, has no FS at all, since it was supposed to be designed and built later in the original Bechtel contract. I think this will prove to be a major Achiles heel for the whole financing plan. As for Brasov-Bacau, there is no project, no FS, no PFS, NOTHING whatsoever. It is something created out of the blue, a bogus idea created for the sole fact of making Comarnic-Brasov more atractive for the future financers.

I don't see how anyone could fall for this lame atempt of designing a motorway network based solely on a piece of infrastructure the goverment desperately wants to build. You can't put all your eggs in a bascket you haven't even imagined yet, especially when you have one waiting for you, with a 85% discount!
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #6814
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Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
You can't put all your eggs in a basket you haven't even imagined yet
Speaking of that, what is the story with those 'Chinese Billions' at the moment???
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Old November 14th, 2013, 01:28 AM   #6815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Speaking of that, what is the story with those 'Chinese Billions' at the moment???
It is a kind of convenient lie used by the politicians every time. Actually people like to believe such stories.
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Last edited by alwn; November 14th, 2013 at 01:36 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 02:30 AM   #6816
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Originally Posted by alwn View Post
It is a kind of convenient lie used by the politicians every time. Actually people like to believe such stories.
Did the same politicians not go to China for meetings about the 'billions' this year. ???? €3bn , funny how that number comes up so often!.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 08:02 AM   #6817
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The Chinese Construction Company withdrew from the tender on Comarnic-Brasov because it was not allowed to build with stuff that was all brought from China, from all kinds of material to workers.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #6818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
That's not true at all, Le Clerk. It was an idea resurected out of the blue 1.3 years ago, but the FS for that road exists sinces 2007, when it was planned as an expressroad. The plan used for the tender differs slightly from the original one, meaning it now has motorway stardards for contruction, and has a different course near the town of Aiud, crossing the Mures river 4 (FOUR) times. This is the reason they were able to propose the project to the EU and launch the tender that fast.
I was referring to the "unplanned" evolution of things from Bruxelles perspective, who "swallowed" an impromptu project that was never on its table.

Quote:
On the same basis they are trying to shove Sibiu-Brasov down the EU's throat, because Sibiu-Fagaras also has a FS from 2007, also as an express road. AFAIK Fagaras-Brasov, being part of Transilvania motorway, has no FS at all, since it was supposed to be designed and built later in the original Bechtel contract. I think this will prove to be a major Achiles heel for the whole financing plan. As for Brasov-Bacau, there is no project, no FS, no PFS, NOTHING whatsoever. It is something created out of the blue, a bogus idea created for the sole fact of making Comarnic-Brasov more atractive for the future financers.
I doubt that all motorways currently U/C with EU money had a FS at the moment when they were accepted for financing.

Quote:
I don't see how anyone could fall for this lame atempt of designing a motorway network based solely on a piece of infrastructure the goverment desperately wants to build. You can't put all your eggs in a bascket you haven't even imagined yet, especially when you have one waiting for you, with a 85% discount!
Again, you are making the mistake that, if Comarnic-Basov will be made, the EU money will be thrown out of the window. No, it will just be used more effectively for Romania's needs.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #6819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cove_adrian View Post
The AADT from 2010 census elaborated by CESTRIN are:

1. DN 2 Bucuresti-Bacau an average value of 16.261 vehicules
2. DN 11 Brasov-Bacau an average value of 7.808 vehicules
3. DN 15 Tg. Mures-Bacau an average value of 5.751 vehicules
4. DN 1+DN 11 Ploiesti-Bacau (via Brasov) an average value of 21.630 vehicules (DN1) + 7.808 vehicules (DN 11)
5. DN 7 Pitesti-intersection with DN 1 (near Sibiu/Talmaciu) an average value of 12.349 vehicules

These are the current road traffic values measured in 2010!

The AADT projection in 2015 based on Cestrin (source from 2006) is represented here:

http://storage0.dms.mpinteractiv.ro/...fic-rutier.jpg
Where are those figures from?! The table I posted shows the figures resulted from the same census. Your map just shows lines of intervals, for ex. red line is AADT > 16 k.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #6820
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Orastie-Sibiu LOT 3 (the one to be opened next year) - how to make a tunnel on a running hill:
















And a couple of pics with the biggest viaduct in Romania currently:





Source
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