daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 11th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #6981
bgd77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Brasov
Posts: 208
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In most developed countries (which should include Romania), the planning process is something like this;

* political agreement to build and fund a motorway (there could be years or even decades of political talk before this).
* design a preliminary alignment, with several alternatives
* public hearing
* publishing a preferred alternative + environmental impact statement
* public comment
* publishing a final EIS
* public can appeal
* court decide about the appeals
* tender
* court handles possible tender appeals from constructors.

Building a court-proof EIS takes around 1 - 1.5 years. A typical EIS is around 1,000 pages. Public hearings and commenting periods are usually at least 6 weeks, but are often longer in the initial stage. Then most projects will go to court. It usually takes at least half a year to get a project through court, but in most countries it takes longer, 1 - 2 years is not unheard of. That assumes that the project will not fail before the judge. Then you have to go through land acquisition and possible appeals during the tender process.

Most countries do not achieve this in less than 5 years.
Well, Romania is not a developed country so some of those steps do not apply:
- there is no political agreement about motorway construction, each party that gets into power has its own plans which are in general different from the ones of other parties
- I haven't heard of the possibility of the public to make comments or to appeal the EIS
bgd77 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 11th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #6982
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd77 View Post
- I haven't heard of the possibility of the public to make comments or to appeal the EIS
Ehh, this would make Romania a dictatorship if you can't appeal to projects that may impact you.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #6983
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

So far the general public had nothing to say regarding the motorway construction in Romania. The public wasn't asked anything and they didn't say anything...
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #6984
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

To change the topic from motorways to rural roads. I will quote here one of my posts from the Romanian section regarding the quality of rural roads (Drumuri Judetene = County Roads). As you will see in my post below, the quality of this roads varies a lot, from modern and paved road, to rural dirt road, although if you look on a map, all this roads look the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Vreau sa va prezint o problema, din punctul meu de vedere, a Drumurilor Judetene din Romania. Conform wikipedia, lungimea totala a Drumurilor Judetene din Romania este de 35.048 km, din care 24.100 sunt cu imbracaminte rutiera moderna (asfalt sau beton rutier), iar 10.948 km sunt neasfaltati. Pentru cei care nu stiu, intretinerea si modernizarea Drumurilor Judetene din Romania intra in sarcina Consiliului Judetean pe raza caruia sa afla respectivul Drum Judetean.

Problema mea este legata de calitatea acestor drumuri care, chiar daca pe harta arata toate la fel (ca Drum Judetean), in realitate sunt extrem de diferite. Si am sa exemplific:

Drum Judetean de calitate foarte buna, cu 4 benzi. Sunt putine ce-i drept, dar ele exista. Exemplu: DJ682



Drum Judetean de calitate foarte buna cu 2 benzi (1 pe sens). Exemplu: DJ709B



Drum Judetean intr-o zona mai greu accesibila (deal/munte) de calitate buna, cu 2 benzi. Exemplu: DJ708



Drum Judetean in zona mai greu accesibila (deal) de calitate buna, dar doar cu 1 banda. Exemplu:



Drum Judetean la care vechimea structurii rutiere, lipsa intretinerii si traficul greu isi spun cuvantul. Exemplu: DJ709



Drum Judetean cu 2 benzi, dar cu platforma drumului mai mica (drum mai ingust), plus intretinere necorespunzatoare. Exemplu: DJ793



Drum Judetean, teoretic cu 2 benzi si tot teoretic asfaltat, dar care se afla intr-o stare deplorabila. Exemplu: DJ708



Drum judetean recent reabilitate si asfaltat, dar la care asfaltul se termina brusc si fara avertisment, continuand cu acelasi Drum Judetean, dar pietruit. Exemplu: DJ708



Drum Judetean cu pavaj din piatra cubica. Exemplu: DJ708



Drum Judetean neasfaltat (pietruit). Exemplu: DJ708



Drum Judetean din zona montana. Exemplu: DJ750



Observati varietatea foarte mare a Drumurilor Judetene din Romania. Nu intamplator am dat exemplu de multe ori Drumul Judetean 708, a carui calitate variaza de la "proaspat asfaltat" la "drum pietruit", trecand prin "pavaj din piatra cubica" sau "drum 'teoretic' asfaltat".

2 intrebari de final:
1. Daca eu doresc sa imi planific o calatorie cu masina si am ca variante si Drumuri Judetene, de unde stiu eu care este calitatea acelui Drum Judetean?
2. Nu s-ar putea face o re-catalogare a drumurilor din Romania (DN/DJ/DC) astfel incat sa tina cont si de starea lor?
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog

Wolfgang16, Zagor666, lucian.lucaci liked this post
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #6985
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,476
Likes (Received): 12038

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ehh, this would make Romania a dictatorship if you can't appeal to projects that may impact you.
Of course the law requires for consultations, and it's a matter of institutional practice for this to take place.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #6986
PhirgataZFs1694
Registered User
 
PhirgataZFs1694's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sofia
Posts: 6,472
Likes (Received): 1560

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ehh, this would make Romania a dictatorship if you can't appeal to projects that may impact you.
Of course, romanian can. Otherwise it would be a breach of EU law. I guess our dear forumers are just not familiar with where to look for those meetings.

However, I think it is a separate topic how much the expressed concerns on this meetings are taken into consideration if there is "strong political will"...
PhirgataZFs1694 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #6987
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

A1 motorway between Orastie and Sibiu is almost ready. 60 km (out of total 82 km) will open next week. Here are a few photos a Romanian forum member shot today:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


You can check all the photos on the Romanian thread (on this page, and on the next page).
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #6988
JackFrost
Hun Solo
 
JackFrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sopron/Wien
Posts: 4,278
Likes (Received): 11824

why is there a 130 km/h sign? are you allowed to do more than 130 on motorways in romania?
JackFrost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #6989
bogdymol
bogdymod
 
bogdymol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,182

No, the general speed limit on motorways in Romania is 130 km/h. I think that sign is there to remind you this.
__________________
Lived, Been, Drove in: A B BG BiH CH CZ D DK E F FIN FL GBZ GR H HR I IRL L M MNE P PL RO RSM S SK SLO SRB UK V
+ Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, United Arab Emirates & United States of America
my clinched highways
My wife has just started a travel blog. Check it out here: makeitcount.blog

JackFrost liked this post
bogdymol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #6990
das_ubersoldat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 0

What is the status of the east-west highway (targu mures-iasi)?
das_ubersoldat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #6991
dorum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Timisoara
Posts: 750
Likes (Received): 2101

CONSTRUIM-ROMANIA initiative

On December 19 , Romanian motorway network will pass another milestone of 600 km. I thought yesterday that it will take decades until we have modern motorways in Romania , and today we are talking about a network . And only a few years separate us from the first complete east-west motorway from Nădlac in Constanta .

With motorway network our community grew also. Our volunteer reporters became more and by their great effort we got to know every day , as the sites evolve , what are the issues and what are the solutions . In a few years I managed to lift the veil of lack of information about major infrastructure works .

Our voice has become stronger, our information more valuable and our opinions more valued.

Inauguration of Sibiu - Orastie A1 sections on Thursday, December 19, 2013 , is also our celebration . We invite you to meet as many in this event and traverse along the new sections !

We all know that in Romania motorway construction should continue at the same pace , realistic projects funded plans , with no gaps and virtual motorways . Romania needs completion of A1 , as she planned for two decades , the route Sibiu - Pitesti. Let's say all this.



Afis 90 x 30 cm
__________________

Le Clerk, alexandru.vladescu liked this post
dorum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #6992
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,476
Likes (Received): 12038

On 20 December, they'll open another 100 km, which means we'll pass the 650 km threshold.

___________

Quote:
Originally Posted by das_ubersoldat View Post
What is the status of the east-west highway (targu mures-iasi)?
According to the masterplan, Iasi-Tg Neamt will be built by 2020. Tg Mures-Tg Neamt will be built later on.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #6993
ionut
Reaching for the stars
 
ionut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 4,135
Likes (Received): 39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
According to the masterplan, Iasi-Tg Neamt will be built by 2020. Tg Mures-Tg Neamt will be built later on.
Mane, eu iti zic pe romaneste, poate pe englezeste nu intelegi: NU AVEM MASTERPLAN. Nu mai induce lumea in eroare sau oroare, wtf is wrong with you?!

---

@English speaking dudes. Please understand this: Romania has no transport/infrastructure masterplan (yet). Period.
__________________
On Sep 12, 2011, I took the decision to STOP posting infrastructure updates & pictures, comments or any other type of post on SSC. The decision is final and is long overdue.

As a sign of appreciation and respect for the Romanian moderators and a few Romanian users, I will not edit all my 4100+ messages. I dedicate all the "work" I've done with passion on SSC to these handful of users. I will only continue to read SSC and be available for these users on PM. Thank you.

bogdymol, dorum, ciprebbe, cricric, Samply and 1 others liked this post
ionut no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #6994
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,476
Likes (Received): 12038

:chillpill:
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania

sotonsi liked this post
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #6995
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,556

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionut View Post
@English speaking dudes. Please understand this: Romania has no transport/infrastructure masterplan (yet). Period.
How can I trust this, when your own masterplan:
Quote:
On Sep 12, 2011, I took the decision to STOP posting infrastructure updates & pictures, comments or any other type of post on SSC. The decision is final and is long overdue.
is a blatant lie, as by posting you break it? and you weren't just posting, but posting on something that you specifically say you wouldn't.

Now I can understand the hostility to treating the politicians' map as unchangeable - especially since the last 'masterplan' got unceremoniously binned and replaced with this. But no one is. The people who treated a promise and a 'masterplan' like holy writ were those who had their heads in the sand about the change of plan - they were in denial that the previous plan wasn't going ahead.

Most of the recent argument, after publication of the 'masterplan', was a semantic battle after Le Clerk used the word as shorthand. As a native English speaker, it clearly is a masterplan as it is a long-term strategy and lays out (albeit at a high-level) what will be built, when, and with what money. We have the press release version for general consumption, so it won't have detailed stuff: that will come as tenders are opened, contracts signed, etc.

I've read UK white papers, such as Roads for Prosperity, and it they are short (Roads for Prosperity is a list of schemes, a map of schemes and a load of unimportant information). I've also skimmed 100-page reports like the SELNEC report. Both were masterplans, but the latter showed their working as well as giving the answer.

While we'd love the working to be shown, the absence of it in publication of the answer doesn't stop it being a 'masterplan'.
__________________

Le Clerk, MichiH liked this post
sotonsi está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #6996
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,476
Likes (Received): 12038

UK firm AECOM won the contract for the development of the Romanian transportation masterplan last year, and I am sure the high-level document published by the Gov, and posted here earlier, is based on the bits in the AECOM report, which has not yet been made public - we do not know whether it is yet in its final form either, or if it will become entirely public. The strategy change making Brasov a transportation hub may have been suggested by this consultant.

Aecom wins to £1.8M contract to develop transport masterplan for Romania
7 May, 2012 | By NCE Editorial


Quote:
Aecom’s UK transport team has been appointed by the Romanian Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure to develop a masterplan and development strategy for its national transportation system.

The masterplan will have a short, medium and long term outlook, and will contain infrastructure and policy instruments for all transport modes, including road, rail, air, Constanta Port and navigation of the Danube River, with an emphasis on sustainability. The value of the contract is 9.5 million Romanian Lei, around £1.8M.

It is a high priority project for Romania as the outputs are the key step in unlocking funding from the European Union, amounting to hundreds of millions of euros for Romania’s infrastructure over the next programming period of 2014 to 2020.

The National Transport Model, which will be developed as part of the project, will provide the analytical support for funding applications to the EU Cohesion Fund for the 2014-2020 programming period.

The Aecom project team will be led from the company’s Bucharest office and supported by experts from the UK.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #6997
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionut View Post
Mane, eu iti zic pe romaneste, poate pe englezeste nu intelegi: NU AVEM MASTERPLAN. Nu mai induce lumea in eroare sau oroare, wtf is wrong with you?!

---

@English speaking dudes. Please understand this: Romania has no transport/infrastructure masterplan (yet). Period.
Yes I live in Italy and understand this, still Le Clerk does help keep this thread alive and makes it quite entertaining...
yet how people who live in Romania and should be more knowledgable, believe all this stuff is beyond me.
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #6998
JackFrost
Hun Solo
 
JackFrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sopron/Wien
Posts: 4,278
Likes (Received): 11824

i understand all languages here. google translate is a bitch not a perfect one of course...
JackFrost no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #6999
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,476
Likes (Received): 12038

Just to make it clear for everyone: AECOM's deadline for the delivery of the study is July 2014. However, bits of the study, which is officially the transport masterplan, have emerged previously in the media. That is why I have referred to that Gov plan as a masterplan, because it contains the overall results of the AECOM work.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #7000
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 2082

Please call it plan instead of masterplan to restore peace!
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, infrastructure, motorways, romania

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium