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Old January 11th, 2014, 09:24 AM   #7261
Le Clerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfos View Post
It is A4 to Ukraine border not Belarus and the decision was made tu build it after we got Euro 2012 with Ukraine, but we were not able to build it on time, but as the construction was advanced it was logical to finish it.
Yes, Ukraine sorry. I know it was built for the Euro, but does it have now the expected traffic?
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:32 AM   #7262
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Yes I do admit that at present situation this road is acceptable but it should at least receive road signs overhaul so that they will make more common sense. But in long term only motorway may solve the problem of mostly residential areas which are pain in the butt if You are on transit route.
Just one thing I need to mention, road signs in Romania in general are a complete mess, they are often overused, underused or don't make any sense at all. A complete overhaul of the signage might make it even worse, as newer signs tend to get even stupider. Just look at our new motorways. We need a complete overhaul of our signage system!
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Old January 11th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #7263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Yes, Ukraine sorry. I know it was built for the Euro, but does it have now the expected traffic?
It opened just a few weeks ago, so I don't expect much change this soon. These motorways are built for the future, traffic safety and economic development. One can't expect a new motorway to deliver long-term benefits in a few weeks, months or even a few years.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:04 PM   #7264
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Around 5 to 6 years I usually needed for a large piece of infrastructure to get going.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:19 PM   #7265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It opened just a few weeks ago, so I don't expect much change this soon. These motorways are built for the future, traffic safety and economic development. One can't expect a new motorway to deliver long-term benefits in a few weeks, months or even a few years.
I am asking for a reason, and that is the fact that we have witnessed increasing traffic from and to the eastern non-EU border in the past years. For example, on the former C IX, it's not unusual that half of the trucks are from Ukraine, Moldova and even Russia, and so it becomes more and more dangerous to drive, let alone attempt overtakes of such trucks which are going ussually in columns of 3-4 trucks.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #7266
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Also, Iasi and Constanta are major destinations on that eastern edge of the country. The Brasov-Bacau motorway, and the East-West motorway, are about serving Iasi and that NE part of Romania, rather than specifically cross border traffic.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 04:53 PM   #7267
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That's a good point.

------------------


BTW: the first construction sites for A3 will be in Comarnic and Azuga. Works will start in April.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #7268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
The AADT in the west-east dirrection is significantly higher than the AADT on the future A6 route. Just look at the traffic census I posted above.
AADT will always be higher to local than international traffic. Saying more it is mostly local traffic which requires building motorways than international one. Local traffic can reach 30 thousand without any problem while international hardly exceeds 10 thousand and it is regarding busy routes. Thus high capacity roads should be build in first according to local traffic needs.

Regarding future A6 it would be far too shallow to judge future of this road based on census which was carried out before bridge was opened. I personally would really like to use this bridge instead of Ruse or trip through Serbia but present route is constant trip through villages. Goggle calculates that from Calafat to Lugoj it is 256 km possible to pass in 3 hour and 24 minutes. With motorway this could be cut to slightly above 2 hours. So it is hard to tell how much cars will be using this crossing after motorway would be build.

Regarding Ukraine and Moldavia I am sorry but ATM building high capacity connections to those countries having in mind its present economy situation and unpredictable future would be a mistake. Of course building new two lane road to presently isolated Reni is reasonable but not a motorway. Main transit routes to Ukraine are well served by Poland and Hungary and additionally through Black Sea ferries. So for Romania main transit route is from Turkey to western Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda
Just one thing I need to mention, road signs in Romania in general are a complete mess, they are often overused, underused or don't make any sense at all. A complete overhaul of the signage might make it even worse, as newer signs tend to get even stupider. Just look at our new motorways. We need a complete overhaul of our signage system
Well I do not share that opinion. Generally old signs are sufficient, pretty comprehensive and I love "Drum Bun" at every city exit. Of course You need to have some geographical overview but basic map and road number is sufficient to travel in correct destination. Of course motorway signage is week but with basic network it isn't a problem. The most problematic situations are new city bypasses which are being build but without proper signage especially buildup area continuity which for "western driver" is essential. Romania has also problem with too much too restrictive and mostly without common sense speed restrictions. It is similar to Poland where in the 1990-ties car patronage rose and with that also accident numbers and only way for governmemt to fight with that was putting irrational speed restrictions and only now it is about building motorways and removing some fictive speed restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk
For example, on the former C IX, it's not unusual that half of the trucks are from Ukraine, Moldova and even Russia, and so it becomes more and more dangerous to drive, let alone attempt overtakes of such trucks which are going ussually in columns of 3-4 trucks.
Trucks are a major hazard on Romanian roads. I do not know if someone controls them but it is complete madness and going with passenger car you have to options to safely drive. First is to go as a maniac disrespecting all signs and the other is to go constantly 70-90 km/h behind a truck regardless what signs say. Unfortunately obeying strictly speed limit or +10 to 20 km/h makes driving pretty dangerous because every truck regardless to its registration country goes like mad, honks at you and eventually overtakes you. And when every single truck passes you get into steep hill where all the trucks get stuck as with basic engines they have problem climbing. Of course Romania has many 1+2 on hills so you take them with legal speed limit but downhill everything starts from beginning and you have bunch of idiots behind you.... .
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:01 AM   #7269
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I wrote last week on the Romanian section that I will post something related to the Mures bridge on A1 motorway (Arad bypass). Here you can see some pictures taken by me during the construction of this bridge. I'm adding on the forum just 3 pictures to keep the page clean:







You can find all the pictures here.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:15 PM   #7270
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A nice concrete cantilever box girder bridge. The Netherlands built many of those in the 1970s. They are usually short spans to circa 200 m, so suitable to cross nearly all rivers except the widest ones.

But it's still possible to build one across a major river as long as piers in the water is not a problem. For example, the Vidin - Calafat Bridge main spans were also possible as a box girder type bridge.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #7271
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i understand the builder for this (a JV of PORR &alpine/fcc if i remember correctly) adapted an existing design of an existing bridge in Austria for this structure, so more than one hundred years after the Traian bridge over the mures in arad (just a few hundred meters away), history repeats itself, austrian construction solutions furthering mobility in Romania. so this bridge has a twin in austria too, not sure where.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #7272
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Alpine Bau also completed this bridge in Austria recently: Donaubrücke Traismauer
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Old January 13th, 2014, 06:01 PM   #7273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcee View Post
If I remember correctly the M3 motorway will stop at Vásárosnamény - just ~15 kms from the Ukrainian border.


I still don't know why it was so important for them to build that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Yes, Ukraine sorry. I know it was built for the Euro, but does it have now the expected traffic?

E40 road (on which A4 lies) is very important and as I learned the longest European route.

It connects two biggest Polish neighbours-Germany and Ukraine.

And probably the most important thing-southern Poland has the biggest population desnity in the country.

It connects big cites like Krakow, Wrocław -and the biggest-Upper Silesian agglomeration which is bigger than Budapest and with surroundig cities and towns creates Central Europan Ruhrgebiet.


As for the traffic-I don't travel too much around the border with Ukraine but Between Krakow and Katowice I see plenty Ukrainian trucks and cars (and what's interesting-cars are usually very good). Also there is biggest western Ukrainian city-Lviv right next to the border-and it has strong links with Poland.

Last edited by MonteChristo; January 13th, 2014 at 06:20 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #7274
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User ACD22 sent me on PM a map with the future motorway numbering in Romania:



A0: Bucharest bypass
A1: Bucharest - Pitesti - Sibiu - Deva - Timisoara - Arad - Nadlac - HU
A2: Bucuresti - Constanta
A3: Bucharest - Ploiesti - Brasov - Tg. Mures - Cluj - Zalau - Oradea - Bors - HU
A4: BG - Vama Veche - Centura Constanta - Tulcea - Braila
A5: Bucharest - Giurgiu - BG
A6: Lugoj - Dr.Tr. Severin - (Calafat) - Craiova - Alexandria - Bucharest
A7: Ploiesti - Buzau - Focsani - Bacau - Suceava - Siret - UA
A8: Tg. Mures - Iasi - Ungheni - MD
A9: Timisoara - Stamora Moravita - SRB
A10: Sebes - Turda
A11: Arad - Oradea
A12: Craiova - Pitesti
A13: Sibiu - Brasov - Bacau
A14: Buzau - Braila - Galati
A15: Suplacu de Barcau - Satu Mare
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Last edited by bogdymol; January 14th, 2014 at 10:05 AM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 09:21 PM   #7275
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And this map shows again inconsequence in road plans. A3 goes straight from Tg Mures to Brasov leaving Fagaras. Although this change may be for better (shorter route), bigger distance from A1 while Fagaras will be served by new A13 to Sibiu and Brasov.
Another inconsequence is Pitesti-Ploiesti which is clearly big gap in network and road would definitely be used especially when there won't be or will be delays with Pitesti - Sibiu connection.
Interesting is new layout of A6 but I do not know why there isn't any connector to Calafat especially that proposed layout would make new bridge attractive also to routes to/from eastern Romania, Ukraine and Moldavia thus traffic may be sufficient for motorway.
Anyway as always plans go their way and reality has its own path. After few years we will see what will be on ground.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #7276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
Anyway as always plans go their way and reality has its own path. After few years we will see what will be on ground.
One of the best statements I've read recently on the forum
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:11 PM   #7277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
User ACD22 sent me on PM a map with the future motorway numbering in Romania:



A0: Bucharest bypass
A1: Bucharest - Pitesti - Sibiu - Deva - Timisoara - Arad - Nadlac - HU
A2: Bucuresti - Constanta
A3: Bucharest - Ploiesti - Brasov - Tg. Mures - Cluj - Zalau - Oradea - Bors - HU
A4: BG - Vama Veche - Centura Constanta - Tulcea - Braila
A5: Bucharest - Giurgiu - BG
A6: Lugoj - Dr.Tr. Severin - (Calafat) - Craiova - Alexandria - Bucharest
A7: Ploiesti - Buzau - Focsani - Brasov - Suceava - Siret - UA
A8: Tg. Mures - Iasi - Ungheni - MD
A9: Timisoara - Stamora Moravita - SRB
A10: Sebes - Turda
A11: Arad - Oradea
A12: Craiova - Pitesti
A13: Sibiu - Brasov - Bacau
A14: Buzau - Braila - Galati
A15: Suplacu de Barcau - Satu Mare
I do not have enough knowledge to assess the map, but definately A15 goes to nowhere (sorry for that, Satu Mare guys)
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #7278
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
One of the best statements I've read recently on the forum
After 3 years of reading this thread there simply couldn't be any other conclusion
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Old January 14th, 2014, 08:57 AM   #7279
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Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
AADT will always be higher to local than international traffic. Saying more it is mostly local traffic which requires building motorways than international one. Local traffic can reach 30 thousand without any problem while international hardly exceeds 10 thousand and it is regarding busy routes. Thus high capacity roads should be build in first according to local traffic needs.

Regarding Ukraine and Moldavia I am sorry but ATM building high capacity connections to those countries having in mind its present economy situation and unpredictable future would be a mistake. Of course building new two lane road to presently isolated Reni is reasonable but not a motorway. Main transit routes to Ukraine are well served by Poland and Hungary and additionally through Black Sea ferries. So for Romania main transit route is from Turkey to western Europe.
AADT in between Iasi and MD border, and then further down to Bucharest, for example is the same as that in between Bucharest and Giurgiu which serves also the international traffic but also local traffic in between these cities. The existing reality is that the traffic there is sufficient to warrant a motorway, irrespective of what the state of economy is. If you drive enough through Romania, you'll start noticing that the density of Russian, Ukrainian and Moldovan trucks on the former CIX (DN2 and DN21) is bigger than the Turkish trucks on the former CIV (A1). That leaving aside the small car traffic, which again will swell with the abolition of visas.

Quote:
Regarding future A6 it would be far too shallow to judge future of this road based on census which was carried out before bridge was opened. I personally would really like to use this bridge instead of Ruse or trip through Serbia but present route is constant trip through villages. Goggle calculates that from Calafat to Lugoj it is 256 km possible to pass in 3 hour and 24 minutes. With motorway this could be cut to slightly above 2 hours. So it is hard to tell how much cars will be using this crossing after motorway would be build.
I think the same could be said about any route: improving infrastructure will attract more traffic. The question is what Romania needs to finance in terms of former CIV during 2014-2020: A6 or Sibiu-Pitesti, because they compete with each other (for more or less the same traffic), and are both financeable by the EU. Should we "close" A1 by building Sibiu-Pitesti or should we build A6?! That is the question. Because they are both very expensive (about Eur 2 billion each as they both cross mountains) and it's unprobable that the budget will be able to finance both - let alone the EU motorway financing for 2014-2020 is little - only about EUR 3 billion. And you know that EU 85% cofinancing means in effect only about 50-60% EU cofinancing (VAT and expropriations are not covered by the EU financing), while the intial payments must be made from the budget. And all this while the concessions will kick in, and they will all be from the budget - the concessionaires will not get paid from the traffic, but from yearly availability payments from the budget, which will amount to hundreds of millions a year for all the concessions planned - that is also why A3 now U/C doesn't "undermine" other motorway plans in the country, as was previously debated intensively. A3 doesn't serve the same traffic as A1 or A6 anyway.

BTW: since you mentioned Ford, in effect both Ford and Dacia have been publicaly demanding from the Government to build Sibiu-Pitesti by 2020.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; January 14th, 2014 at 09:40 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 10:29 AM   #7280
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Could you kindly advise that below information is a bold step for the project procurement or just a propaganda or political skills?
Thanks a lot.
"A consortium comprising Vinci, Strabag and Aktor has been named preferred bidder by the Romanian Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure, represented by C.N.A.D.N.R. (Romanian National Company of Motorways and National Roads), for a 29-year PPP contract covering the Comarnic - Brașov section of the Bucharest – Brașov motorway in Romania. The project is expected to cost about €1.2 billion (US$1.6bn).
This is the second time that the project has been awarded to the Vinci consortium. It was previously awarded to the consortium in 2009 but did not make progress due to some financing conditions"
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